The FIA to investigate McLaren

[Touring Mars]

The FIA are to investigate McLaren about a possible breach of the rules concerning team orders at Monaco...

Article...

 

[ExigeEvan]

They should be aswell. After reading an article in the Daily Tory-graph about it there clearly seemed to be team orders in place.

Just a quick quote

Hamilton was less than a second behind his team-mate with 20 laps of the 78 to go, then eased off the throttle. The order not to go for the kill came earlier, with more than half the race to go. And Hamilton was brought in prematurely for his second stop, costing him any chance of victory.

 

[Touring Mars]

It's kind of swings and roundabouts though... The reason the gap was so small was because of team orders as well i.e. Alonso could afford to take it a bit easier knowing that he was safe from attack by Hamilton... if those orders hadn't been made, Alonso would have maintained his pace that would have kept him well ahead of Hamilton.

But still, the pressure to stay infront could well have made Alonso make a mistake, but similarly, the pressure to catch him could just as easily have caused Hamilton to screw up too, or even cause a collision. F1 is a team sport, and in my view, they should be allowed to have some sort of sensible team orders...

 

[Metar]

It completely makes sense to order the rear driver to back off a little when the two have a huge lead over the rest of the field. Monaco's not an easy place to pass in, very tight. With both drivers giving everything, in identical cars, it'd take a while for a proper passing-opportunity to happen. An overtake is a huge risk in this case, and backing off a little is a reasonable thing to do. It's not like they told him to crash into another driver, or drive extremely slow - just a slight reduction in pace, so as to prevent the risks of a crash, of either/both drivers.

 

[Kylehnat]

Technically, "do not take your teammate out" is a team order, but is also the golden rule of all motorsport. With a more experienced #2 driver (or if the roles were reversed), Ron Dennis would not have had to say or do anything. Monaco is not the place for a intra-team battle.

Lastly, anyone who thinks that team orders are gone from the sport is a fool.

 

[livemusic]

or if the roles were reversed

I doubt Alonso wouldn't try to pass Hamilton if he had the chance.

 

[Metar]

It's a matter of Ego for both Alonso and Hamilton. Without Ron Dennis interfering, Hamilton would've tried to pass so he could earn his well-deserved win, establish his lead in the championship and get even more recognized. Alonso had to win here, both in the fight for championship, and for his own ego - after being beaten by Hamilton, he couldn't afford a pass. If the roles were reversed, it'd be the same - he couldn't afford not to pass.

 

[Kylehnat]

Ego aside, I think Alonso would be saavy enough to realize that being embarassed by a young whippersnapper teammate is not worth throwing 18 constructors points away, especially considering that there are 14 races left. We will see Alonso and Hamilton battle for a win this year (and it will be awesome to watch), just not at Monaco.

 

[Jay.]

I think that what McLaren are trying to do is complete crap.
Hamilton should have won Monaco.
Just because McLaren have more money invested in Alonso, Hamilton has to sit back and 'follow orders'.
If hamilton was 'allowed' he would have taken first place on the podium.
If the roles were reversed and Alonso had the chance to take first, then he would definitely go for it, without thinking.
Hamilton should push on hard even if just to make McLaren realise that they messed up.

We will see Alonso and Hamilton battle for a win this year (and it will be awesome to watch), just not at Monaco.

Totally agree!
This year will be one hell of a fight.

 

[Diego440]

from grandprix.com

The FIA has announced that it has launched an investigation into incidents involving the McLaren Mercedes team at the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix, in light of a possible breach of the International Sporting Code. This is based on claims made mainly in the media that the team played its race strategy in such a way as to help Fernando Alonso to win the race, rather than Lewis Hamilton.

The FIA will now review all the available evidence, including any radio calls between the cars and the pits and whatever other data is available. The FIA says it is simply doing its job and if that makes it unpopular that is an unfortunate part of the role of being the regulator. The FIA says that the rules were changed in 2002 after the mess in Austria when Rubens Barrichello backed off to allow Michael Schumacher to win the race.

Team orders have always been a part of the sport and in August 1998 the FIA said that "it is perfectly legitimate for a team to decide that one of its drivers is its World Championship contender and that the other will suppport him". In 1999 Eddie Irvine finished second in the World Championship for Ferrari largely because he was helped by his team mates.

Then came 2002 and the mess in Austria and after lengthy discussion the World Council decided that there was nothing it could do. It admitted in its press release that it "deplored the manner in which team orders were given and executed at the Austrian GP" but found "with some reluctance" that was "impossible to sanction the two drivers because they were both contractually bound to execute orders given by the team". The Council also recognised "the long-standing and traditional right of a team to decree the finishing order of its drivers in what it believes to be the best interest of its attempt to win both World Championships."

Mosley himself said: "It is easy to vote through a regulation to say that team orders are prohibited, but how do we enforce it?" and admitted to being amazed at the reaction there had been. In November 2002 the F1 Commission banned team orders saying that "any team orders which interfere with the race result are prohibited". This was suitably vague and meant that manipulations could be employed if they were not obvious.

However, no-one has yet been pulled up on this ruling, despite the fact that in Turkey in 2005 Giancarlo Fisichella was radioed by Renault and told that Fernando Alonso, who was behind him, was quicker. Fisichella's reaction was such that it appeared that the radio call had been understood as an order rather than a suggestion. No investigation was launched.

There have since been several occasions in which drivers have "voluntarily" decided to help their team mates.

It remains to be seen whether there will be any evidence to back up the theories and it is a shame that what is a cracking good season in F1 could be tainted by rules which are so vague as to be useless - unless someone wants to use them.

 

[Omnis]

Lewis fell behind because he hit the walls. If they were doing things by team strategy, it would've been more strategic to have Lewis win as he was in the lead in points prior to the race.

 

[Sureboss]

The chances are that it had no impact on the race results, speedy gonzalez couldn't overtake a snail at Monaco, it's tighter than a Scotsman in a pub another for good measure.

Remember, Hamilton is our medias precious baby, anything against him is against the nation! As much as I rate the guy and think he's brilliant, every single race on ITV is dominated/dedicated to young Brit.

Alonso was on fire at Monaco (barring about a 5 lap part in the middle iirc) and Hamilton was quick but made mistakes. I hope it goes no further as to me nothing illegal took place. (Apart from Honda's baffling tactics)

 

[<_Spike_>]

Yeah 5 races in and they're already doing a tv special on the guy, c'mon at least wait a season...

As far as I'm concerned, nothing was done on the naughty by McLaren, both drivers are fighting for the championship and McLaren will let them race start to finish.

Tbh I think it's they're just so surprised McLaren have pulled off a second 1-2 in the first 5 races

 

[XGT Taipan]

Yeah 5 races in and they're already doing a tv special on the guy, c'mon at least wait a season...

This coming from the guy who has a picture of Lewis draped in his nations flag for an avatar?!

As far as investigations should go, I saw nothing strategic that McLaren did wrong... and as for Omnis' quote that Lewis was slower because he hit the barriers, I think you should've listened to his post race comments, he said that he barely shaved the barriers on a few occations, but to no extent did it alter the handling of the car. However he was suffering from front tyre graining, which is why he requested a lower pressure on his rear tyres at the first stop.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I remember Hamilton saying he touched the barriers 'a bunch of times.' And when and how did they hold him up to let Alonso take the victory?

Nonsense.

 

[Gonz013]

I think any strategy stopping the best driver from winning seems against the whole notion of GP?

GP is not a true team sport, (eg. like football etc.)- if there are two cars representing a manufacturer and one driver crashes, the other can go on perfectly well without his so-called 'team-mate' -so I don't see the justification in the 'teammates' cooperating (more like colluding) in the way that happened with Ferrari in Austria.

Shouldn't the eventual champion in any given season be No.1 because he's the best driver, rather than one of the top 2 or 3 that happened to get the most 'help'?

 

[Lee]

Heh Ferrari flashed their Euros in Max's way once again..

 

[Blake]

GP is not a true team sport

Teams of hundreds of people compete each year to build and develop the best racing package, and it&#8217;s not a team sport?

And when and how did they hold him up to let Alonso take the victory?

Lewis was on a scheduled 1 stop strategy, but they pulled him back to two stops so he wouldn&#8217;t overtake Alonso. They then made him pit 4 laps earlier than he had to in the second stint so he wouldn&#8217;t leap-frog Alonso in the pits.

I still have no problem with team orders, though. I just wish they&#8217;d get rid of the stupid rule so that fans know when the winner was assisted and they wouldn&#8217;t have to listen to stupid radio messages like: &#8220;Giancarlo, Alonso is faster than you. Wink wink, nudge nudge.&#8221;

Oh, and the FIA are setting a major precedent by actually enforcing that rule, now. I have no doubt that every time Hamilton could have won the race, but didn&#8217;t bother to challenge Alonso, Ferrari will make a protest of some sort saying that McLaren used team orders to manipulate the race/championship.

 

[m7ammed]

I think its the fact the Lewis said he was pushing all the time and touching the barriers, and ROn Dennis saying that they were conserving the cars since lap 10, this contradiction made teh FIA suspect something is going on

read about it on ITV-F1.com I would give a link but every time I open that site my IE crahes for some reason

 

[McLaren]

Um, guess I don't understand this, but what the hell does it matter? McLaren would have won either way?

 

[Omnis]

GP is not a true team sport

Williams BMW, lol.

 

[Jay]

I am quite sure nothing will come of this, It'll just keep teams aware the FIA is taking notice of team strategy.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Teams of hundreds of people compete each year to build and develop the best racing package, and it’s not a team sport?

No, that's only half of what they do. The other half is trying to get the FIA to ban the competition's innovations (fan car, flexi-floor, etc) so that you can further your advantage. Take Spyker for example; realistically, they could only really take on Super Aguri and Scuderia Toro Rosso ... and when those two teams proved to be substantially quicker than the Spykers, what did the Dutch team do? Cry fould over customer cars!

 

[XGT Taipan]

Lewis was on a scheduled 1 stop strategy, but they pulled him back to two stops so he wouldn’t overtake Alonso. They then made him pit 4 laps earlier than he had to in the second stint so he wouldn’t leap-frog Alonso in the pits.

That makes a lot of sense why Lewis' fuel nosil was only inserted for 3 seconds. I couldn't understand how he had gone so far on what appeared to be such a small amount of fuel.

I guess that considering that, Lewis' qualifying lap was brilliant.

Although it doesn't make sense that McLaren would risk sending out Lewis' on the Super Soft tyres for more 49 laps if they were bound to grain.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm sceptical towards the 1-stop strategy. Out of qualifying, Mclaren just had to know Hamilton would be able to keep up, even when such heavy loaded so about that 2 stopper sounds as if Mclaren was surprised mid-way and they let him come in for a second stop...I tihnk he was on a 2-stopper, Hamilton would never been able to keep up with Fernando so well with that much fuel. Massa was on a 2-stopper as well, and Hamilton pulling away from him so easily with only a 1-stopper planned? I don't think so...Don't get on with the Super Soft tires, because nearly the full field was running on them. It's probably nothing more than Mclaren saying "Don't push too hard, we don't want to get you 2 get too exited and crash or something, bring home that 1-2 rather than taking risks."

Nothing compared to what Ferrari did back in 2002 though 👎



*EDIT*

So a 1 stopper was planned after all...

 

[daan]

Alonso's 2 stops took longer than Hamilton's 2 stops.

1 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 26 24.861 24.861
1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 29 25.329 25.329

2 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 51 24.687 49.548
2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 53 23.297 48.626

How do we know Hamilton was one stopping?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Not?

I really don't know but if you're on a 1-stopper, you normally need to tank more fuel than someone on a 2-stopper...Differences between times of the first stop are very little...


I'm going back to my 2-stopper thoughts...

 

[Blake]

How do we know Hamilton was one stopping?

Because Ron Dennis said so.

 

[Robin]

Jeez, if this investigation finds Mclaren guilty Hamilton will win but it wont be the sweet first victory he deserves, he will have missed out on the Monaco podium with royalty in front of everyone and just to be given the trophy in a back room would be an insult. No wonder he looked so annoyed in the press conference.

 

[Hugo Boss]

As long as there's a manufacturer's championship, these 'orders' should be allowed. Drivers will think about the driver's championship first, so I can't see a problem in Ron Dennis reminding both drivers of the manufacturer's championship by asking them to slow down. It's simply his job. Hamilton is yearning for his first win, so it wouldn't have been unthinkable he would have done something stupid. Since both drivers had a huge lead over the competition, it didn't harm the competition and it wasn't such an insulting team order as with Ferrari a few years ago.

If the FIA comes with sanctions against McLaren, they're making a complete fool of themselves (again).

Hamilton just had bad luck that he and Alonso crushed the competition. Otherwise he might have overtaken Alonso in the pit lane because he was carrying more fuel.