The General Light Bulb Discussion

[Matej]

European countries are currently discussing importance of next-gen light bulbs that have been replacing classic light bulbs for some time. What I would like to hear are opinions from others - what are drawbacks and merits of each type and what type do you prefer for home use?

Classic Bulb VS Halogen VS Energy Saver (CFL) VS LED​

Try to value each type by taking price, durability and power into account. After voting, please provide reasoning.

 

[BobK]

Depends on the application in most cases so I didn't vote.

Mostly, though, I don't want the choice rammed down my throat by the government.

 

[W3H5]

Which ever are the most fuel efficient for their luminoscity.

I'd usually go for LED lights as they seem to be the best for what they are but energy savers, in the house hold, seem to be the best option there.

It really depends on the application.

Incandescent bulbs are surely a thing of the past though...

 

[Luminis]

I'd personally go with LED's where possible. Not that I'm in a rush to replace older bulbs, but once they break, I'll get LED's as replacements.

A little more expensive to purchase, but they last forever, consume less energy than CFL bulbs even and don't contain mercury. Halogen and classic light bulbs are out for me; the power draw is considerably higher, the lifetime is shorter and, initial price aside, I don't see much of an upside to using them.

Plus, with some LED sets, you get to adjust the warmth or the colour of the light. Not that big a deal (well, to my girlfriend it is, for whatever reason), but it's neat nonetheless.

 

[Matej]

Thank you guys for providing arguments. Keep them coming!

I also think application is important. I noticed CFL bulbs last very long, but do not provide sufficient lightning in rooms where people read or work on PC. On the other hand, they could be useful in a bathroom or a hall where lightning isn't really that important.

A little more expensive to purchase, but they last forever, consume less energy than CFL bulbs even and don't contain mercury. Halogen and classic light bulbs are out for me; the power draw is considerably higher, the lifetime is shorter and, initial price aside, I don't see much of an upside to using them.

I noticed LED bulbs are significantly more expensive than classic bulbs, which is why I still haven't bought one. I also noticed they can't match 150W classic bulb, which from my experience is a perfect choice for room where people read or write.

I can confirm Halogen bulbs have short life span, sometimes even shorter than of classic bulbs.

 

[Luminis]

I noticed LED bulbs are significantly more expensive than classic bulbs, which is why I still haven't bought one.

The price difference is rather severe, yes. However, their lifetime is significantly longer. Like, 50 to 1 longer. Add the lower power consumption and LEDs are cheaper long-term.

I also noticed they can't match 150W classic bulb, which from my experience is a perfect choice for room where people read or write.

I generally use dedicated reading lights - being in somewhat close proximity makes LEDs work well enough. Gotta admit that classic bulbs give off the nicest light, however. Just feels more organic than LEDs.

 

[Danoff]

Let's see...

Incandescent - cheap, burns out quickly, chews through electricity, hot, instant on
Halogen - Expensive, burns out quickly, chews through electricity, hot, instant on depends on the bulb I think
CFL - mid-priced, burns out less quickly, medium electrical use, cool, take forever to turn turn on
LED - expensive, longest lasting, low electrical use, cool, instant on

As far as color temperature goes I think each can be gotten in any color. CFL and maybe halogens? have a bit of a flicker to them compared to LEDs which turns some people off.

I have halogens in the garage and basement where i need a huge flood of light. I have CFLs outside where I run them all night because I don't care how long they take to warm up and the LED equivalent was very expensive. Everywhere else I'm phasing out CFLs for LEDs as they burn out.

 

[TB]

The contractor that built my house used cheap incandescent lamps in all the fixtures. As they burn out, I'm replacing them with LED.

In my kitchen/dining room/living room, I have 14 recessed light fixtures. To ensure that all the LEDs are the same batch, and therefore color temperature, I bought enough from Costco when the first one burned out to replace all of them. The old ones are waiting for the lamps in the basement to blow to replace them at which point they'll be replaced by LED when they die.

At present, I'd guess that my house is at 60% incandescent, 40% LED.

 

[Lizard]

LED. They are good at saving electricity and thus my money. Also you can make them do cool colours.

 

[Pupik]

CFL ...cool, take forever to turn turn on

The only place I liked CFLs was the master bathroom: the room gets plenty of daytime light, so not getting blinded by light at 2:00am or 3:00am (assuming a two-stop pit strategy) and being able to resume my sleep is a nice perk on my aging body. The wife hated it for early-morning makeup tasks, so out they went when they each burned out. I'd install a dimmer but a night light works just as well.

Otherwise, we have el-cheapos for desk lamps, the "clear" ones for ceiling fans and outdoor use, some fluoresents in the kitchen, and LEDs the dining areas.

I don't notice the color temperatures much, or at least, I don't fuss over it...probably due to the variety of bulb-types.

 

[Matej]

The price difference is rather severe, yes. However, their lifetime is significantly longer. Like, 50 to 1 longer. Add the lower power consumption and LEDs are cheaper long-term.

The only problem occurs if you buy a malfunctioning LED bulb. In that case you're at huge loss as you have just wasted significant amount of money for which you could buy several classic bulbs. It once happened with a halogen bulb we bought and is something I want to avoid at all cost.

CFL bulbs are the worst in my opinion. Illumination is weak (it takes time to turn on to full power and after few months the power will start to reduce gradually) and they seem to radiate UV rays, much like fluorescent light tubes.

 

[Liquid]

I think the greater question is whether to have screwy bulbs or clicky bulbs.

(The answer is screwy, by the way.)

 

[Luminis]

The only problem occurs if you buy a malfunctioning LED bulb. In that case you're at huge loss as you have just wasted significant amount of money for which you could buy several classic bulbs.

Statutory warranty for the win, I guess 👍 So, not an issue on my part, but I can totally see why you wouldn't want to risk it otherwise.

 

[W3H5]

(The answer is screwy, by the way.)

Agreed. I always felt like I was going to crack a clicky bulb when the string was a bit stiff.

 

[Matej]

I think the greater question is whether to have screwy bulbs or clicky bulbs.

The only real drawback of a screwy bulb is a risk of slipping off your hands while you're applying it on the throat.

It makes me really sad when the broken bulb is the one that had to serve as a replacement...

Statutory warranty for the win, I guess 👍 So, not an issue on my part, but I can totally see why you wouldn't want to risk it otherwise.

If only! Some shops will certainly refund the malfunctioning bulb, but what if the bulb works for about two or three weeks before ceasing permanently? And that just scratches the problem.

I may be wrong, but it seems that people don't really pay attention to prices of classic bulbs as they are super cheap, so relative durability can be tolerated. But with these expensive next-gen bulbs serving as replacement you can't avoid, things could change. They will have to work on durability a lot to justify their higher price tag.

 

[Luminis]

If only! Some shops will certainly refund the malfunctioning bulb, but what if the bulb works for about two or three weeks before ceasing permanently?

Well. According to German law, it goes like this: If a product malfunctions like that within the first six months, the burden of proof is on the seller. So he has to prove that the product had no faults whatsoever that impact its ability to fulfil its purpose. LED bulbs might be more expensive than other means of illumination, but still too cheap for most sellers to not just offer a replacement. After those first six months, the customer has to prove that the product was inherently faulty - pretty hard in this case, but if it worked for six months, the likelihood of it being faulty is rather small

As I alluded to, I have no clue how warranty is handled in other countries.

They will have to work on durability a lot to justify their higher price tag.

The projected lifetime for an LED bulb goes up to 50,000 hours of use, compared to roughly 1,200 for an incandescent bulb. While consuming about a sixth of the power. As long as your country's jurisdiction protects its consumers from being stuck with inherently broken products, I'd say those LED bulbs are plenty durable.

Also, less waste. Always a good point, even though I'm not much of an environmentalist.

 

[ExigeEvan]

My house is almost entirely LED bulbs at the moment, save for a tube light.

Most are either Screwfix bulbs of a conventional fitting, or a G9 bulb bought off the web. 9/10 bulbs worked absolutely fine and considerable saving on high street.

LED bulbs will pretty much pay for themselves within a year, and are a huge improvement on efficiency and reliability compared to GU10 and G9 halogens.

 

[noshog]

LED's for everything for me. Swapped my whole house over to LED. Can run my whole house on 160w now, where as before my bathroom alone would use 200w.

I'm in the Electrical trade so I was able to get a good deal on top quality LED's....
But this will lead me to give some advise that not a lot of people are aware of....All LED's produce a blue light that is harmful to the eyes !!
This is where it is important to get a good quality (normally more expensive) LED, as the top quality LED's have a thick phosphorus coating over the chip that blocks the harmful blue light....Cheap and nasty LED's have a thinner coating or can even have holes in the coating that will let more of the blue light through.
One of the easiest ways to tell the good over the bad is to test them side by side, if you took two LED's of the exact same specs (eg. 10w ES 3000K colour temp) you would find the cheap LED'S would actually appear a much whiter colour than the top quality one due to the cheaper LED's phosphorus coating letting through more of the blue light.

It is still a case of you get what you pay for, don't cut corners when it comes to choosing your lighting. I see people cutting corners everyday trying to save money by buying cheap fittings/lamps, not only will it end up bad for your eyes it will also be a pain in the 🤬 to replace them when they fail...and they will fail !!

 

[ExigeEvan]

@noshog I think you're referring to UV light. It's emitted by all sorts of bulb types, especially halogen. Whilst UV light can be harmful, the coatings are equally applied for efficiency reasons as UV is less desirable than the visible light that we require at home.

 

[noshog]

@ExigeEvan It's not UV light I'm referring to..... http://www.allaboutvision.com/cvs/blue-light.htm
It's a visible blue light spectrum, I had a lighting specialist in my shop who was very knowledgeable on this topic. He has been to conferences all over the world on this very topic.

 

[Danoff]

@ExigeEvan It's not UV light I'm referring to..... http://www.allaboutvision.com/cvs/blue-light.htm
It's a visible blue light spectrum, I had a lighting specialist in my shop who was very knowledgeable on this topic. He has been to conferences all over the world on this very topic.

Not a single shred of evidence at that website. A lot of super tenuous links such as Laboratory studies have shown that too much blue light (let's not talk about how much) can have effects that resemble (let's not talk about how much) something that OMG BLINDNESS! I mean vision loss, which is not the same thing but gloss over that.

My sister wears these glasses:

...because she has a made up disease that is fixed by blue light. Go figure.

 

[noshog]

@Danoff That was just the first link I found that showed the blue light spectrum I was talking about (I'm at work at the moment so technically shouldn't even be doing this ), that is all I was trying to show, if you want more in depth studies just google it a little more....
There will be many debates on the exact effects on blue light on the eyes, from what I've seen the majority believe its is harmful, also from what my lighting specialist says this is a known concern in the industry.
Lets not forget that generally LED lighting, TV's and smart phones are really a fairly recent thing for our society, so I'm guessing that the true effects of all this will probably not be truly know for another 10 years or so.

This wasn't a personal attack on your sister, it's great we are at an age where we have the technology to help with such issues....I guess though, how do you know that the fix for one problem wont cause another problem in the future ?

 

[ExigeEvan]

@noshog - I've googled it. It's based entirely on a poor understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum and a complete disregard for proportionality. It's pseudoscience at it's worse.

 

[Matej]

Well. According to German law, it goes like this: If a product malfunctions like that within the first six months, the burden of proof is on the seller. So he has to prove that the product had no faults whatsoever that impact its ability to fulfil its purpose. LED bulbs might be more expensive than other means of illumination, but still too cheap for most sellers to not just offer a replacement. After those first six months, the customer has to prove that the product was inherently faulty - pretty hard in this case, but if it worked for six months, the likelihood of it being faulty is rather small

As I alluded to, I have no clue how warranty is handled in other countries.

I recently found that some LED bulbs seem to come with a small x-year warranty within the package, that is a good thing to rely on when buying a bulb. If there is no known warranty, you have to rely on consumer protection policy of the shops. From my experience here, different shops handle clothes differently, so the same probably applies to expensive bulbs. The law does have written rules, but it can't specify details, for each condition and product.

We're going to buy a LED bulb very soon, I'll be happy to provide a report.

 

[nowcontrol]

My house is almost entirely LED bulbs at the moment, save for a tube light.

It's the same for me. Even the interior lamp of my 25+ year old fridge has been replaced.

The tube light in my kitchen is only used when I am doing some elaborate cooking, which is not that often, or if i'm using the rubber mat I have on the kitchen floor as a workbench for something technical which is also rare. I have a 6.8w under-cabinet LED strip light for when I just want to make a cup of tea, a sandwich, or heat up a tin of soup.

 

[Danoff]

This wasn't a personal attack on your sister, it's great we are at an age where we have the technology to help with such issues....I guess though, how do you know that the fix for one problem wont cause another problem in the future ?

No no, I wasn't being sarcastic. Her "disease" really is made up. She has Irlen's syndrome, which is kinda like her gluten allergy (she's non-celiac), entirely in her head. Next she'll probably be telling me that she has low energy because Jupiter is in the 7th house, or because her chacras are off.

 

[noshog]

@noshog - I've googled it. It's based entirely on a poor understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum and a complete disregard for proportionality. It's pseudoscience at it's worse.

In a way I don't disagree with you. I am always sceptical of researchers claiming this and that, who is going to spend time and money to disprove their own theories....Present the evidence that supports you, ignore the rest.
But at the same time there does seem to be a bit of a consensus that the blue light that LED's emit is bad for your eyes...No they haven't been able to quantify it, maybe they never will be able to ?
This is why I stated earlier that my believe is that because this is relatively new technology the true effects will probably not really be known for a few years.

All I was trying to do was highlight what is/could be an issue with the use of LED's to the GTP community, I guess we are all gamers, and what is a gamers most useful asset...Our eyes !!

 

[ExigeEvan]

But at the same time there does seem to be a bit of a consensus that the blue light that LED's emit is bad for your eyes...No they haven't been able to quantify it, maybe they never will be able to ?

There's no consensus.

The blue light emitted from a phone, or display is negligible. It might appear bright in a dark room, but that's because the human eye is incredibly good at balancing light levels. Outside on a sunny day can be 80,000-100,000 lux. A cloudy day 1,000 lux, an office 500 lux. A full moon will provide an ambient 1 lux. One.

So yes, if that blue light was from a 120W bulb that you stared at for half an hour at 12 inches you might do some damage.

But if you drank 6 litres of water quickly, or ate 10g of caffeine you might also suffer ill effects. But taken moderately it's perfectly normal.

 

[noshog]

@ExigeEvan but it is not the lux or lumen output that is doing the damage, as you stated you stare at a 120w lamp for extended periods you will do damage....that will happen regardless of the colour.
Its the frequency/wavelength of the blue light, and that doesn't change whether its 1 lumen or 1000 lumen....And that is where the consensus seems to be....A specific frequency that does the damage.

But this is also where the concern lies, we absorb (or don't as the problem seems to be with eyes) the blue light naturally throughout the day, then come home and 'absorb' more of it via our TV's, general home lighting etc etc now....So how do we moderate blue light intake ?

 

[Omnis]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/im-hoarding-light-bulbs.295014/