The Great Camber Experiment: Stage 1 "High Speed Ring" (closed/finished/ended)

[DolHaus]

Aim:
The aim of this experiment is to gain understanding of the effects of negative camber in GT6. There are a lot of theories and approaches spread across the tuning forum, these have caused an untold amount of discussions and arguments but so far no hard evidence of the effects have been documented. By collecting and analysing data from a variety of drivers under fixed conditions using the MoTeC i2 software we might be able to once and for all say what the effects are in game and how they can be used.

Method:
Testing conditions will be described for each test and must be followed exactly to ensure accuracy of results. Details will include a specific car running a specific tune at a specific track under specific conditions, all of these elements must be adhered to or the data could become tainted.

Results:
The data from the test drivers will be collected and analysed by a variety of sources in order to pick out patterns and trends. This analysis will hopefully hold some answers and give a better indication of the appropriate uses of camber and the expected effects when applied.

 

[DolHaus]

Test 1: High Speed Peak G Load
​

Track: High Speed Ring (non time variable version)

Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11 (Tune here - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/haus-of-flying-daggers.301978/page-9#post-10251074 )

Tyres: Racing Hard

Grip: Real


This test will examine the effects of equal front/rear camber on peak G loading. It will mostly be examining the effects of lateral G during cornering but longitudinal G will also be noted during the braking sections.

Instructions:
1) Build car to exact specifications as detailed in the link
2) Enter Arcade Time Trial
3) Under track settings set grip reduction to "Real"
4) Set equal front/rear camber
5) Test drive the car (10-15 laps recommended)
6) Record "Best Lap Replay"
7) Export data via USB for use with MoTeC i2
8) Analyse data and find peak lateral/longitudinal figures for each corner as illustrated on the map above.

(example)

0.0/0.0

Lap Time:

1:06.083

Peak lateral G (Speed)

Turn 1: 2.71 G (175.6 mph)

Turn 2: 2.67 G (120.2 mph)

Turn 3: -2.04 G (90.4 mph)

Turn 4: 2.06 G (83.5 mph)

Turn 5: 2.43 G (110.2 mph)


Peak longitudinal G (Braking)

Turn 1: N/A

Turn 2: -2.30 G

Turn 3: -2.16 G

Turn 4: -1.52 G

Turn 5: -2.06 G

9) Repeat test with each camber setting (0.0/0.0 + 1.0/1.0 + 2.0/2.0 etc.)


Special Instructions

Please only include "clean" laps, no cutting across the curbs or bouncing off the walls as these things will mess with the results.

There is a slight time discrepancy between GT6 and MoTeC data which can make it difficult to identify which lap is which, I advise that you export the results one at a time rather than exporting all 10 at once (i.e perform test run, export data, analyse)

You do not have to include the speed in your results but it may prove useful with later investigations

 

[DolHaus]

Data

​

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iPtcTm-rTATi9dj0vetMKKyqsyOCQaxN5J7bmzQWmr0/edit#gid=0

(More graphs and analysis)
Load:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...t-drivers-wanted.320272/page-11#post-10369422
Speed:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...t-drivers-wanted.320272/page-11#post-10371807

 

[DolHaus]

Conclusions ​

 

[xande1959]

- to whom and lay on the subject that "MOTEC I2 Pro" works even I will have to attend school again after old👍

- am not this time but!

 

[DolHaus]

- to whom and lay on the subject that "MOTEC I2 Pro" works even I will have to attend school again after old👍

I will try to write a "how to" on the subject, its fairly easy to use once you know where the important buttons are hiding

 

[Motor City Hami]

I applaud you for this effort, but get ready to duck around a few flaming arrows from the community. Data beats opinion any day. Having seen a sneak peak, I know that you will show your work and let people make their own conclusions.

 

[DolHaus]

I applaud you for this effort, but get ready to duck around a few flaming arrows from the community. Data beats opinion any day. Having seen a sneak peak, I know that you will show your work and let people make their own conclusions.

I know I'm walking onto a mine field wearing snow shoes but hopefully there will be enough folks willing to put some effort into collecting the data so it can be used to find some definitive answers.

 

[Thorin Cain]

Given my quest for this particular Eldorado, I think I should really join you in this adventure. You have my time and my tyres.

I'll be the one hiding behind the sandbags while you tip-toe those first few steps

 

[Dan]

I don't know anything about tuning (Never got around to learning the techniques), but it makes me really happy that there are dedicated fans out there trying to figure out how a game works.

 

[DolHaus]

Given my quest for this particular Eldorado, I think I should really join you in this adventure. You have my time and my tyres.

I'll be the one hiding behind the sandbags while you tip-toe those first few steps

Welcome aboard, the more the merrier

I don't know anything about tuning (Never got around to learning the techniques), but it makes me really happy that there are dedicated fans out there trying to figure out how a game works.

Thank you, we can use all the testers we can get if you can find the time to help out 👍

 

[Lionheart2113]

I'm liking the idea and hope this proves what you want it to. I only have 1 suggestion and it's nothing major. If the lap times and other info was in spreadsheet form, it might be easier to read. Plus you could take advantage of graphs and other things that show all of your hard work.

 

[DolHaus]

I'm liking the idea and hope this proves what you want it to. I only have 1 suggestion and it's nothing major. If the lap times and other info was in spreadsheet form, it might be easier to read. Plus you could take advantage of graphs and other things that show all of your hard work.

You are indeed correct and this will be implemented as soon as possible 👍

 

[Thorin Cain]

Just popped back to check in for details. I'm off to work now so I'll get the car built in the morning and make a start.👍

 

[DolHaus]

Just popped back to check in for details. I'm off to work now so I'll get the car built in the morning and make a start.👍

If you have any questions or problems then feel free to ask 👍

 

[Thorin Cain]

Test Driver's Disclaimer: The Car was purchased from the Dealership in British Racing Green (Obviously ) and taken straight to the guys at GT Auto's Parts Department, where they hooked me up with a nice assortment of body mods. On the way to the track I stopped by the Haus of Flying Daggers and DolHaus Set the Big Cat up. Nice work by the way!👍 Handles like a dream and even I can drive it... well, kind of

The car is set-up to the exact specifications mandated and track conditions were set to real. Controller used DS3, sensitivity set to 0 (Forgot to ask...Thoughts?). ABS 1 only aid used.

I do have a confession to make at this point though. I didn't paint the calipers or apply racing number (Because I forgot.) You don't think the extra weight and increased wind resistance matters that much do you?

Well here's my data so far.

Data for test 1
Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11
Track: High Speed Ring.

Camber set at: 0.0/0.0

Lap Time: 1:05.448

Lateral G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 2.43 G (176.2 mph)
Turn 2: 2.56 G (116.1 mph)
Turn 3: -2.18 G (80 mph)
Turn 4: 2.11 G (80.9 mph)
Turn 5: 2.28 G (119.7 mph)

Longditudinal G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 0.15 G ( Just to be thorough.)
Turn 2: -2.29 G
Turn 3: -2.03 G
Turn 4: -1.51 G
Turn 5: -2.02 G

It did take me a few more laps than planned to get this data, between writing off a few decent ones because I rolled up on some kerbs, a few more because my right foot weighs a ton and the walls get a bit close here and there...oh and this ghostly shape appeared on the track and stated chasing me so I had to run away, fast. (Note to self: Put that button back where you found it.)

I'm sorry that's all I got for now. Got to sleep, it's been a long night and 20 something laps of HSR this morning has taken it's toll. I'll do some more when I get back up later and get the data in ASAP.

Goodnight/Morning/whatever, Have a good one

 

[DolHaus]

Test Driver's Disclaimer: The Car was purchased from the Dealership in British Racing Green (Obviously ) and taken straight to the guys at GT Auto's Parts Department, where they hooked me up with a nice assortment of body mods. On the way to the track I stopped by the Haus of Flying Daggers and DolHaus Set the Big Cat up. Nice work by the way!👍 Handles like a dream and even I can drive it... well, kind of

The car is set-up to the exact specifications mandated and track conditions were set to real. Controller used DS3, sensitivity set to 0 (Forgot to ask...Thoughts?). ABS 1 only aid used.

I do have a confession to make at this point though. I didn't paint the calipers or apply racing number (Because I forgot.) You don't think the extra weight and increased wind resistance matters that much do you?

Well here's my data so far.

Data for test 1
Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11
Track: High Speed Ring.

Camber set at: 0.0/0.0

Lap Time: 1:05.448

Lateral G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 2.43 G (176.2 mph)
Turn 2: 2.56 G (116.1 mph)
Turn 3: -2.18 G (80 mph)
Turn 4: 2.11 G (80.9 mph)
Turn 5: 2.28 G (119.7 mph)

Longditudinal G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 0.15 G ( Just to be thorough.)
Turn 2: -2.29 G
Turn 3: -2.03 G
Turn 4: -1.51 G
Turn 5: -2.02 G

It did take me a few more laps than planned to get this data, between writing off a few decent ones because I rolled up on some kerbs, a few more because my right foot weighs a ton and the walls get a bit close here and there...oh and this ghostly shape appeared on the track and stated chasing me so I had to run away, fast. (Note to self: Put that button back where you found it.)

I'm sorry that's all I got for now. Got to sleep, it's been a long night and 20 something laps of HSR this morning has taken it's toll. I'll do some more when I get back up later and get the data in ASAP.

Goodnight/Morning/whatever, Have a good one

Looking good so far, thank you for participating.

I don't think steering sensitivity will have any noticeable effect on the results so feel free to set it however you are comfortable 👍

 

[brian wolf]

Well done for setting this up. 👍 I wish I had more time to help test. Out of interest, how many tests are you planning to do?

 

[DolHaus]

Well done for setting this up. 👍 I wish I had more time to help test. Out of interest, how many tests are you planning to do?

At least 2 (high/low speed) maybe up to 6 (different tyre compounds), it all depends on what trends the data shows.
These tests are planned to be ongoing long term experiments so if you find time in the future then it'd be great to have you on board 👍

 

[brian wolf]

If I can find some time, I`ll definitely help out. Won`t be in the next few weeks tho, works gone bonkers at the moment.

 

[TurnLeft]

if you want I can probably find some time on sunday or monday if it`s not too late. At work now and can`t type too long. 👍

 

[DolHaus]

if you want I can probably find some time on sunday or monday if it`s not too late. At work now and can`t type too long. 👍

If you can find the time then you are more than welcome 👍
The experiment is ongoing so there is no submission date, hoping to collect the data over time and use it to build up an accurate picture of what is going on

 

[Otaliema]

if you want I can probably find some time on sunday or monday if it`s not too late. At work now and can`t type too long. 👍

An experiment like this is going to take weeks maybe months to finish so a weekend right at the start won't hurt it none.
@DolHaus ill toss the jag around at HSR this interests me as well, I have found to provide handling differences so knowing exactly what they are will help a ton. I will see how this turns out might be a good way to get some help with the aero kit testing.

 

[Thorin Cain]

Looking good so far, thank you for participating.

I don't think steering sensitivity will have any noticeable effect on the results so feel free to set it however you are comfortable 👍

Absolutely no problem at all my good man Set my SS back to 2 and hit the track:tup:

Got another bunch for you.

Data for test 2
Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11
Track: High Speed Ring.

Camber set at: 1.0/1.0

Lap Time: 1:05.233

Lateral G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 2.24 G (175.1 mph)
Turn 2: 2.50 G (116.0 mph)
Turn 3: -2.12 G (85.5 mph)
Turn 4: 2.30 G (76.0 mph)
Turn 5: 2.54 G (127.1 mph)

Longditudinal G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: N/A
Turn 2: -2.42 G
Turn 3: -2.42 G
Turn 4: -2.11 G
Turn 5: -1.87 G

Notes: Straight out of the gate I ran 1:05.828. Got the recorded lap after 14 laps but kept going to 22 laps because I knew there was another few tenths out there, I know I had them but... I just couldn't find them again. It's by no means the perfect lap but it was a clean lap and watching it back it's probably quite a fair reflection of my test 1 lap. Slightly different lines through the first and last corners but more or less on par in the others.

I did plan on doing the 2.0/2.0 run this morning too but alas it was not to be, if I get up early enough later I'll do it then. If not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow morning along with another few (Day off).

Until then, have fun all and don't work too hard. Bedtime for me

 

[DolHaus]

An experiment like this is going to take weeks maybe months to finish so a weekend right at the start won't hurt it none.
@DolHaus ill toss the jag around at HSR this interests me as well, I have found to provide handling differences so knowing exactly what they are will help a ton. I will see how this turns out might be a good way to get some help with the aero kit testing.

Thank you 👍
Yeah it may take some time to collect enough data but hopefully it will give us a clearer picture of what's going on, I haven't set out with an agenda to either prove or disprove anything, just looking for clues as to if and how it can be used effectively.
I have a plan for Aero investigations involving the data logger, some masking tape and my TV

Absolutely no problem at all my good man Set my SS back to 2 and hit the track:tup:

Got another bunch for you.

Data for test 2
Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11
Track: High Speed Ring.

Camber set at: 1.0/1.0

Lap Time: 1:05.233

Lateral G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: 2.24 G (175.1 mph)
Turn 2: 2.50 G (116.0 mph)
Turn 3: -2.12 G (85.5 mph)
Turn 4: 2.30 G (76.0 mph)
Turn 5: 2.54 G (127.1 mph)

Longditudinal G-Force Max Peak Load.

Turn 1: N/A
Turn 2: -2.42 G
Turn 3: -2.42 G
Turn 4: -2.11 G
Turn 5: -1.87 G

Notes: Straight out of the gate I ran 1:05.828. Got the recorded lap after 14 laps but kept going to 22 laps because I knew there was another few tenths out there, I know I had them but... I just couldn't find them again. It's by no means the perfect lap but it was a clean lap and watching it back it's probably quite a fair reflection of my test 1 lap. Slightly different lines through the first and last corners but more or less on par in the others.

I did plan on doing the 2.0/2.0 run this morning too but alas it was not to be, if I get up early enough later I'll do it then. If not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow morning along with another few (Day off).

Until then, have fun all and don't work too hard. Bedtime for me

👍
In your own time mate, no rush

 

[F1Racer68]

I too intend to provide some testing results for this experiment. Thank you for organizing and starting this test @DolHaus. I am very interested in what our findings will be. I hope to post some test results in the next few days.

 

[Otaliema]

I have a plan for Aero investigations involving the data logger, some masking tape and my TV

I think i2 and the speed data will be more effective get a relative idea on drag effects, it's already proven they push the cars down.

 

[DolHaus]

I think i2 and the speed data will be more effective get a relative idea on drag effects, it's already proven they push the cars down.

The drag effect isn't really my focus as there is very little practical use for that data, I'm looking more at how much downforce is actually generated by body kits so it can be quantified in spring rate equations. I will be using a variety of cars to check if the effects are equal and using relative spring compression to work out the amount of downforce generated and how this might affect "ideal" spring rate settings.

 

[Otaliema]

The drag effect isn't really my focus as there is very little practical use for that data, I'm looking more at how much downforce is actually generated by body kits so it can be quantified in spring rate equations. I will be using a variety of cars to check if the effects are equal and using relative spring compression to work out the amount of downforce generated and how this might affect "ideal" spring rate settings.

Very true the only real use is figuring out the power "loss" of the kits due to the added drag

 

[DolHaus]

Very true the only real use is figuring out the power "loss" of the kits due to the added drag

Yeah that only comes into play on circuits with sustained high speed sections like Le Mans, even then its the same assessment process of finding the lowest amount of downforce you can run without losing control of the vehicle that you would go through at any other track.