The Great Camber Experiment: Stage 2 "Silverstone" (Test Drivers Wanted)

[DolHaus]

Aim:
The aim of this experiment is to gain understanding of the effects of negative camber in GT6. There are a lot of theories and approaches spread across the tuning forum, these have caused an untold amount of discussions and arguments but so far no hard evidence of the effects have been documented. By collecting and analysing data from a variety of drivers under fixed conditions using the MoTeC i2 software we might be able to once and for all say what the effects are in game and how they can be used.

Method:
Testing conditions will be described for each test and must be followed exactly to ensure accuracy of results. Details will include a specific car running a specific tune at a specific track under specific conditions, all of these elements must be adhered to or the data could become tainted.

Results:
The data from the test drivers will be collected and analysed by a variety of sources in order to pick out patterns and trends. This analysis will hopefully hold some answers and give a better indication of the appropriate uses of camber and the expected effects when applied.

 

[DolHaus]

Test 2: High Speed Peak G Load (Flat circuit)
Track: Silverstone National Circuit

Car: Jaguar XKR-S '11 (Tune here - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/haus-of-flying-daggers.301978/page-9#post-10251074 )

Tyres: Racing Hard

Grip: Real


This test will examine the effects of equal front/rear camber on peak G loading. It will mostly be examining the effects of lateral G during cornering but longitudinal G will also be noted during the braking sections.

Instructions:
1) Build car to exact specifications as detailed in the link
2) Enter Arcade Time Trial
3) Under track settings set grip reduction to "Real"
4) Set equal front/rear camber
5) Test drive the car (10-15 laps recommended)
6) Record "Best Lap Replay"
7) Export data via USB for use with MoTeC i2
8) Analyse data and find peak lateral/longitudinal figures for each corner as illustrated on the map above.

(example)

0.0/0.0

Lap Time:

0:54.100

Peak lateral G (Speed)

Turn 1: 2.71 G (175.6 mph)

Turn 2: 2.67 G (120.2 mph)

Turn 3: -2.04 G (90.4 mph)

Turn 4: 2.06 G (83.5 mph)

Turn 5: 2.43 G (110.2 mph)

Turn 6: 2.19 (78.1 mph)


Peak longitudinal G (Braking)

Turn 1: -2.01 G

Turn 2: N/A

Turn 3: -2.16 G

Turn 4: -1.52 G

Turn 5: N/A

Turn 6: N/A


9) Repeat test with each camber setting (0.0/0.0 + 1.0/1.0 + 2.0/2.0 etc.)


Special Instructions

Please ensure you are familiar with the circuit and the car before beginning data acquisition, consistency is extremely important to the outcomes of the experiment.

Please do not use the run off areas, if you put more than 2 wheels over the track boundary then please void the lap.

Please only include "clean" laps, no cutting across the curbs or bouncing off the walls as these things will mess with the results.

There is a slight time discrepancy between GT6 and MoTeC data which can make it difficult to identify which lap is which, I advise that you export the results one at a time rather than exporting all 10 at once (i.e perform test run, export data, analyse

 

[DolHaus]

Data

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10LwloWZ9J3pruf0HabuEOZWLtvhdz47iVxdc4iQ_L9Y/edit#gid=0​

 

[DolHaus]

Conclusions ​

 

[DolHaus]

Bonus Testing
​

Stage 1: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...1-high-speed-ring-test-drivers-wanted.320272/

 

[ALB123]

Silverstone National is a Time & Weather Adjustable track. Obviously, we want weather turned off. Right now it says the time is 9:30 and the Time Progression is 1. I'm assuming you want to keep that consistent among all of the testers. 9:30am is giving me a temperature of 57F (13.8889C). I moved the time to a few different afternoon times and the temperature never got above 58F (14.4444C), so I think it would be easier to just leave it at the 9:30am default. That's one less thing to have to worry about adjusting every time you exit the track to reset the best lap time replay data. Perhaps you could add the Time you want it set to on the first post, @DolHaus? That way, if new testers pop up for this round they'll already have the answer right in front of them.

 

[ALB123]

Special Instructions

Please ensure you are familiar with the circuit and the car before beginning data acquisition, consistency is extremely important to the outcomes of the experiment.

Please do not use the run off areas, if you put more than 2 wheels over the track boundary then please void the lap.

Please only include "clean" laps, no cutting across the curbs or bouncing off the walls as these things will mess with the results.

DolHaus, could you please hop on the track and give me (us) an exact ruling on what is allowed and what is not-allowed at Turn 1 on this track? I have a tendency to go wide here. I know I'm not the only one because I see others do it when I have raced on this track against other people, not AI. Unfortunately, in Arcade Mode you can go obscenely wide. I'm talking 3+ car widths past the green layer and you don't get DQ'ed. Friggin' GT6...

Anyway, I just thought maybe you should make a crystal clear ruling on what is considered a clean lap and what isn't at that particular turn. I think once you lay down the ruling, we will all follow the rule like the gentlemen that we are.

EDIT: Sweet! MoTeC i2 Pro actually draws a perfect Track Map with the corners defined exactly how we want them. For some reason, in Round 1 my software didn't define the track properly so I had to manually declare each section of "straight" or "corner". It wouldn't have been so bad, but something is goofy in the program. When I would define a section, let's say Corner #2 on High Speed Ring. It would show me the exact starting point of the "turn" in feet from the start/finish line and then it would show you the exact ending point of that "turn" in feet from the start/finish line. That's fine and totally easy to understand. But, when I would make a change, a lot of times the numbers that were in the spinner box would magically change after hitting enter and screw up the next two sections...

 

[Thorin Cain]

DolHaus, could you please hop on the track and give me (us) an exact ruling on what is allowed and what is not-allowed at Turn 1 on this track? I have a tendency to go wide here. I know I'm not the only one because I see others do it when I have raced on this track against other people, not AI. Unfortunately, in Arcade Mode you can go obscenely wide. I'm talking 3+ car widths past the green layer and you don't get DQ'ed. Friggin' GT6...

Anyway, I just thought maybe you should make a crystal clear ruling on what is considered a clean lap and what isn't at that particular turn. I think once you lay down the ruling, we will all follow the rule like the gentlemen that we are.

EDIT: Sweet! MoTeC i2 Pro actually draws a perfect Track Map with the corners defined exactly how we want them. For some reason, in Round 1 my software didn't define the track properly so I had to manually declare each section of "straight" or "corner". It wouldn't have been so bad, but something is goofy in the program. When I would define a section, let's say Corner #2 on High Speed Ring. It would show me the exact starting point of the "turn" in feet from the start/finish line and then it would show you the exact ending point of that "turn" in feet from the start/finish line. That's fine and totally easy to understand. But, when I would make a change, a lot of times the numbers that were in the spinner box would magically change after hitting enter and screw up the next two sections...

Well, I'll be doing my best to stay keep all 4 wheels inside the white lines and again fighting muscle memory to avoid the curbs 👍....and the sand!

 

[DolHaus]

DolHaus, could you please hop on the track and give me (us) an exact ruling on what is allowed and what is not-allowed at Turn 1 on this track? I have a tendency to go wide here. I know I'm not the only one because I see others do it when I have raced on this track against other people, not AI. Unfortunately, in Arcade Mode you can go obscenely wide. I'm talking 3+ car widths past the green layer and you don't get DQ'ed. Friggin' GT6...

Anyway, I just thought maybe you should make a crystal clear ruling on what is considered a clean lap and what isn't at that particular turn. I think once you lay down the ruling, we will all follow the rule like the gentlemen that we are.

EDIT: Sweet! MoTeC i2 Pro actually draws a perfect Track Map with the corners defined exactly how we want them. For some reason, in Round 1 my software didn't define the track properly so I had to manually declare each section of "straight" or "corner". It wouldn't have been so bad, but something is goofy in the program. When I would define a section, let's say Corner #2 on High Speed Ring. It would show me the exact starting point of the "turn" in feet from the start/finish line and then it would show you the exact ending point of that "turn" in feet from the start/finish line. That's fine and totally easy to understand. But, when I would make a change, a lot of times the numbers that were in the spinner box would magically change after hitting enter and screw up the next two sections...

The track boundary is defined as the white lines that follow the edges of the track, you won't get red lapped for crossing these but in the aid of consistency I ask that you stay within the white lines. If crossed I expect you to void the lap by slowing down and allowing your ghost to overtake you. The general rule used by most circuits is that if you put more than two wheels (half the car) over the line then you are exceeding the track boundaries and you would have your qualifying lap invalidated, during a race the incident would be viewed by the stewards to determine if you gained an advantage by doing so.
On the subject of time of day I will update this later, I had meant to return and clarify this last night but didn't have time 👍

 

[F1Racer68]

Unfortunately I am not sure I will be able to participate in this round. Between preparing for my remaining League Events as well as testing for the upcoming GTP Endurance Series my schedule is pretty full (not too mention my darn job, which seriously interferes with my racing time)

If I find a few spare hours I will try to contribute, but it is doubtful this time around.

Sorry......

 

[DolHaus]

Unfortunately I am not sure I will be able to participate in this round. Between preparing for my remaining League Events as well as testing for the upcoming GTP Endurance Series my schedule is pretty full (not too mention my darn job, which seriously interferes with my racing time)

If I find a few spare hours I will try to contribute, but it is doubtful this time around.

Sorry......

No worries, I appreciate the effort you have already put in 👍

As with the first test this will remain open indefinitely so if you get time in the future then you are more than welcome to contribute

 

[ALB123]

The track boundary is defined as the white lines that follow the edges of the track, you won't get red lapped for crossing these but in the aid of consistency I ask that you stay within the white lines. If crossed I expect you to void the lap by slowing down and allowing your ghost to overtake you. The general rule used by most circuits is that if you put more than two wheels (half the car) over the line then you are exceeding the track boundaries and you would have your qualifying lap invalidated, during a race the incident would be viewed by the stewards to determine if you gained an advantage by doing so.
On the subject of time of day I will update this later, I had meant to return and clarify this last night but didn't have time 👍

So, are you saying all four wheels inside of the white line? I see you mention that but then you mention how most tracks allow two wheels over the white line, as long as it's not more than half of the car width... This is why I thought a crystal clear definition would be in order here. 👍

 

[DolHaus]

So, are you saying all four wheels inside of the white line? I see you mention that but then you mention how most tracks allow two wheels over the white line, as long as it's not more than half of the car width... This is why I thought a crystal clear definition would be in order here. 👍

Keep at least two wheels inside the boundary lines and use your own discretion, as long as you are holding the same line throughout the test that's all I'm interested in. The only reason the note is there is to stop people driving on parts of the track that may have a different surface/grip level and to stop them going flat out through corners where others are braking. Just basic control measures, no need to overcomplicate things 👍

 

[ALB123]

Keep at least two wheels inside the boundary lines and use your own discretion, as long as you are holding the same line throughout the test that's all I'm interested in. The only reason the note is there is to stop people driving on parts of the track that may have a different surface/grip level and to stop them going flat out through corners where others are braking. Just basic control measures, no need to overcomplicate things 👍

Sounds good to me. I wish the game would just DQ me if I went too far, but don't worry... I can control myself and run honest & valid laps.. As always, thank you DolHaus. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want to possibly prevent any confusion before it becomes an issue. 👍

 

[DolHaus]

Sounds good to me. I wish the game would just DQ me if I went too far, but don't worry... I can control myself and run honest & valid laps.. As always, thank you DolHaus. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want to possibly prevent any confusion before it becomes an issue. 👍

I know, Silverstone has some of the weirdest boundaries in the game. Stowe corner on the GP circuit is a great example, you can run 20 yards wide on the exit and not get penalized but if you run slightly over the lines in a certain place using the conventional driving line its a red lap

Please understand that I don't want to control peoples driving style too much, the test can only get credible results if it is held in real world situation. The idea is to see if the overall patterns of gain and loss are the same across a variety of drivers using a variety of driving styles, only then can we say anything on the subject with a degree of certainty 👍

 

[F1Racer68]

The idea is to see if the overall patterns of gain and loss are the same across a variety of drivers using a variety of driving styles, only then can we say anything on the subject with a degree of certainty

And that is EXACTLY the right approach. We need to look for a consistent pattern regardless of the uncontrollable variables. Using the resulting numbers to graph the data will highlight those patterns or trends (if there are any) immediately.

 

[TurnLeft]

I'm off to get the hang of the track

, in case I don't come back, please give my regards to everyone here, and if I do make it out alive I will send you some data

as soon as available.

 

[DolHaus]

I'm off to get the hang of the track

, in case I don't come back, please give my regards to everyone here, and if I do make it out alive I will send you some data

as soon as available.

I'm doing a handful of laps everyday just to work on my consistency at the track before starting data collection, certainly a more challenging track than HSR

I'm currently running in the low 0:54s on average, high 53s are possible but not easy (for reference) 👍

 

[TurnLeft]

Well I'm down to 0:51.348, not bad but plenty of room to get better, I just wanted to see your jaw drop,, best so far 0:54.142 , will practice until monday than start recording data, I'm thinking of rolling a dice to choose wHich set to do first, we'll see how I feel about that on monday.

 

[Otaliema]

Well I'm down to 0:51.348, not bad but plenty of room to get better, I just wanted to see your jaw drop,, best so far 0:54.142 , will practice until monday than start recording data, I'm thinking of rolling a dice to choose wHich set to do first, we'll see how I feel about that on monday.

Your an old table topper and have a d10 laying around that's older than me don't ya

 

[Thorin Cain]

Well I'm down to 0:51.348, not bad but plenty of room to get better, I just wanted to see your jaw drop,, best so far 0:54.142 , will practice until monday than start recording data, I'm thinking of rolling a dice to choose wHich set to do first, we'll see how I feel about that on monday.

 

[ALB123]

Yeah, I'm gonna try to get a crapload of laps under my belt too, before I start running the laps for the data. Yesterday I ran about 15 laps with 2.0/2.0. I'll run some more today when I get on my PS3.

 

[TurnLeft]

Yeah, I'm gonna try to get a crapload of laps under my belt too, before I start running the laps for the data. Yesterday I ran about 15 laps with 2.0/2.0. I'll run some more today when I get on my PS3.

Nice to see you at the start, I'm really glad your in this with us 👍.

Your an old table topper and have a d10 laying around that's older than me don't ya

Yup, I do have very very old D10, 1984, but wait how old are you? Come to think it's not that old right? Oh I used it for a lap or two at silverstone, it might be useful to soften up that suspension a bit, the track seems to have turned a little rough. As for the table topper, check my avatar.(will be changed back very very soon)

 

[Thorin Cain]

I don't know about straight-line speed, but it should have pretty good rotation through Becketts and Luffield

 

[DolHaus]

It was originally tuned for the GP circuit, struggles a tiny bit with the longer National version of Becketts but feels at home everywhere else. If you get on the throttle nice and early on the exit to Luffield the rear will slip slightly and push the nose in to keep it tight, one of my favourite things about the car when I was building it, feels like its on the verge of letting go but just keeps holding on

 

[Otaliema]

Yup, I do have very very old D10, 1984, but wait how old are you? Come to think it's not that old right?

Nope not older than me but not by that much lol and 30 years for a dice is pretty old my oldest is only 15 years lol

 

[Thorin Cain]

It was originally tuned for the GP circuit, struggles a tiny bit with the longer National version of Becketts but feels at home everywhere else. If you get on the throttle nice and early on the exit to Luffield the rear will slip slightly and push the nose in to keep it tight, one of my favourite things about the car when I was building it, feels like its on the verge of letting go but just keeps holding on

I meant @TurnLeft's CAT

Not tried the Jag yet, just going now:tup:

 

[Otaliema]

Well I've logged about 50 laps I. The jag at Silverstone holding 56's constant with a low 55 best right now, still getting used to the wheel it's an odd feeling I am starting to learn what it feels like right before the tires let go, that's a weird feeling when they let go, the wheel is fighting fighting fighting and nothing. Then FIGHT!!!! Cause the tires got grip again. Prolly not helping my learning curve that I am adoptiong left foot breaking at the same time

 

[DolHaus]

Well I've logged about 50 laps I. The jag at Silverstone holding 56's constant with a low 55 best right now, still getting used to the wheel it's an odd feeling I am starting to learn what it feels like right before the tires let go, that's a weird feeling when they let go, the wheel is fighting fighting fighting and nothing. Then FIGHT!!!! Cause the tires got grip again. Prolly not helping my learning curve that I am adoptiong left foot breaking at the same time

Would you like me to put a video up with a sample lap so you can compare lines?

 

[Otaliema]

Would you like me to put a video up with a sample lap so you can compare lines?

You can if you would like it too but right now it's just getting a hang of braking with out locking the wheels and or fishing the tail.