The Initial D Problem

[askia47]

The Initial D problem

I hate to say this,but people seem to hate Initial D a lot for odd reasons. I have been browsing some Initial D threads and many of the members oppose the anime and manga. My question is why? Inital D is a great series with REALISTIC drifting.Thats right I said REALISTIC. If you have seen Japanese cars in drifting races Initial D looks like that. Drifting is fun because you let the cars slide their tires an opposite way in to a corner. It looks
great and thats why there are so many drifting threads. Initial D is a comic book and a animated cartoon. However GT3 is also just a video game. Each is a realistic look to racing.So why don't you like Inital D? It's really just a anime which illustrates realistic drifting. A lot of you will say thats crap it's pure fiction and nothing else. Yet then again GT3 is just a computer game that simulates racing. Think about it. Don't worry I know that the trueno is not the only car that can drift so i am not Initial D fanatic follower, yet give the series some praise.

 

[AE86Driver]

well,I'm not gonna be on the side of,"let's go against the people who don't like Initial D",cause people have opinons..but I really do like Initial D,so I'd have to support your post all the way Askia =D.Let me share a story,kind of brief really,cause I gotta go to my doctor's appointment in a few minutes..so,here goes ----

well,one day,I finally stopped playing GT3...yes,you heard right,I completely STOPPED playing GT3..I thought it was boring..I had already done all these championships and so forth,so I was like,"whatever,I've done basically everything I want to on that game..so I'm done" and instead,I went to look up some new anime to watch ya know,cause it has been a while since I had seen any...then there it was,the name was called Initial D,and I downloaded the 1st episode..and I loved it,and wanted to watch the rest of it..and throughout the series,I began to start wanting to play GT3 again because of the same cars ya know..and to try and learn the skill of drifting,but to make this short,the moral of the story is ---

I have Initial D to thank for me still even having GT3 in my PS2 ^_^

AE86Driver

 

[milefile]

Besides "looking cool," is there a point to drifting? My drifts have all been accidental, and although they may look cool, they seem to slow me down. All four wheels spinning in the direction of the turn seems to be the best way to win or achieve fast lap times.

 

[Thio]

well, read my sig

that explains everything

 

[Thio]

also, when takumi drifts, the way he drifts is not realistic because when you drift, the fastest way to drift is ti 4WD Drift. if you countersteer, then you can't go as fast as you would if you take the racing line.

overall, i think it's a good anime

 

[AE86Driver]

it all depends on your style of driving really.This is my opinon on the situation,so please don't get mad about it.Okay,here's the way I am about Drifting...since I really suck at grip racing,like I've told everybody else (oops..I think I've told you this already =P) I can't drive correctly with my 787B till the tyres condition are in the orange,almost red,so I can then drift with it ^_^.I can only make faster times by drifting,but that's just me though.Now logically...yes,gripping and just turning would be the BEST way to make a faster time..but it's kind of hard to do that when you can't grip ^_^,which may sound really odd,considering the fact all you have to do is turn and grip,that easy eh?well...disappointingly,it's not that easy for me,even in an 4WD vehicle =P.So I don't know,it's just all depending on how your driving style is I suppose

AE86Driver

 

[Seis]

Originally posted by Thio
also, when takumi drifts, the way he drifts is not realistic because when you drift, the fastest way to drift is ti 4WD Drift. if you countersteer, then you can't go as fast as you would if you take the racing line.

overall, i think it's a good anime

takumi does use an all wheel drift,

you can't simply slide through a turn controlled sideways with absolutely no countersteer, that's not fast at all,

if you don't believe me I'll get a screen cap to prove it but takumi does in fact use all wheel drifts,

Ryosuke even comments on it when racing him "the eight six is acting differently from before, the angle of countersteer has gotten smaller, he's improved!"

also when he explains what a drift is and is criticized by the others, it's the manager that think to himself how he just explained an all wheel drift,



*note* also I've been looking at some of my replays, I think that I actually use a form similar to 4 wheel drifting in gran turismo

 

[Seis]

but yeah, a lot of drifters have pointed how initial D was a good anime but a lot of the drifting was just ridiculous,

and it is, as of right now there's maybe one man that's that good, and that's the drift king,

yeah some are that good but usually not their first time on the road...

 

[milefile]

So basically it's a cartoon/video game fantasy thing because in real racing nobody purposely drifts, except in rallys.

 

[Concept]

Initial D sucks. That's my opinion. I have a question though, who is Takumi?

 

[Duke]

Ummm, even I know that Takumi is the tofu-delivery boy with the magical Trueno and the bag full of driving tricks from Initial D. Unfortunately, not knowing this severely lowers the value of your post.

Let me clarify one idea from the thread above: If Takumi countersteers at all, then it's not a four-wheel drfit, by definition. Four-wheel drfiting can only be done in a car with mild understeer. It's a matter of physics and engineering, not a matter of opinion. If you want the technical explanation behind it I can give it to you.

Personally, I don't think Initial D sucks, though I have no interest in watching it. It is highly unrealistic - trust me, drifting is not the fast way around a race track. Oversteer is a useful tool under very specific conditions, such as negotiating extremely tight hairpins, and can be useful in autocross. But if you are sliding to that extent on sweepers I guarantee you are wasting time. As somebody's .sig line says, "Everybody remembers who won the race, not who drifted the most."

The real reason people don't like Initial D is that it just seems to go hand-in-hand with a lot of immature behaviour and poor board manners, such as refusing to search for prior threads and information before asking, posting the same things over and over, thread piracy, and in general too much posting about a fairly limited subject. Perhaps you drifter types should get together and politely ask Jordan if he'll make a drifting forum so that you can discuss it to your satisfaction, without cluttering up this board with redundant threads.

The other thing that bothers me about it is what's going to happen in a few years when you all get your driver's licenses and start thinking you can get away with that crap in real life. I've lost the link, but there's video of an Evo drifter making an ass of himself at a Porsche Club track event. He does several laps of wild drifting, narrowly missing numerous other cars. He probably thinks he's pretty cool, until he makes a tiny mistake and totals his Evo. It's only luck that he doesn't take somebody else with him.

So to sum it up, Initial D doesn't inherently suck worse than any other anime, though it is very unrealistic. It's the behavior of the fanatics that makes it annoying and causes backlash against it.

 

[Seis]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Ummm, even I know that Takumi is the tofu-delivery boy with the magical Trueno and the bag full of driving tricks from Initial D. Unfortunately, not knowing this severely lowers the value of your post.

Let me clarify one idea from the thread above: If Takumi countersteers at all, then it's not a four-wheel drfit, by definition. Four-wheel drfiting can only be done in a car with mild understeer. It's a matter of physics and engineering, not a matter of opinion. If you want the technical explanation behind it I can give it to you.

Personally, I don't think Initial D sucks, though I have no interest in watching it. It is highly unrealistic - trust me, drifting is not the fast way around a race track. Oversteer is a useful tool under very specific conditions, such as negotiating extremely tight hairpins, and can be useful in autocross. But if you are sliding to that extent on sweepers I guarantee you are wasting time. As somebody's .sig line says, "Everybody remembers who won the race, not who drifted the most."

The real reason people don't like Initial D is that it just seems to go hand-in-hand with a lot of immature behaviour and poor board manners, such as refusing to search for prior threads and information before asking, posting the same things over and over, thread piracy, and in general too much posting about a fairly limited subject. Perhaps you drifter types should get together and politely ask Jordan if he'll make a drifting forum so that you can discuss it to your satisfaction, without cluttering up this board with redundant threads.

The other thing that bothers me about it is what's going to happen in a few years when you all get your driver's licenses and start thinking you can get away with that crap in real life. I've lost the link, but there's video of an Evo drifter making an ass of himself at a Porsche Club track event. He does several laps of wild drifting, narrowly missing numerous other cars. He probably thinks he's pretty cool, until he makes a tiny mistake and totals his Evo. It's only luck that he doesn't take somebody else with him.

So to sum it up, Initial D doesn't inherently suck worse than any other anime, though it is very unrealistic. It's the behavior of the fanatics that makes it annoying and causes backlash against it.

I already have my license son, and I don't appreciate the disrespect,

find me a video of a car in a controlled drift with all wheels facing perfectly forward and you can tell me I'm wrong about all wheel drifting, the fact of the matter is to control drift you must countersteer, even if it is only mildly (like I said before),

and as far as drifting being useful in autocross and rally where there are tight hairpins, what the hell do you consider a mountain pass? it sure as hell isn't nascar,

as for the video you're talking about, I'm pretty sure it was a woman driver, it was an EVO VII no? white one? not only was she doing "wild drifting" she was passing everyone and their mother and looking damn good and skilled while doing it, what sucks is that she/he did make a minor mistake and as is the case when you're travelling at those speeds (even when not drifting) they lost it;

p.s. I wouldn't have included any disrespect in my reply but you seem to have quite a bit in yours toward those defending the anime,

 

[Seis]

and by the way you seem to use the terms oversteer and understeer in a very odd way,

a member of another forum I'm on put it quite plainly like this

"Understeer is when you're facing the wall when you hit it. Oversteer is when you're facing the other direction of the wall when you hit it."

 

[Concept]

Inital D still sucks neon_duke. I knew who Takumi was by the way. I just thoght I'd ask anyway. MistaX used to chat about how Takumi "r0x0red the the m4x0r!" all the time. I pretty much heard about the whole series.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Seis
I already have my license son, and I don't appreciate the disrespect

Congratulations. I sincerely hope you don't try to drive like that on the streets. Particularly not while I'm coming home from dinner and a movie with my wife and kids in the car. No disrespect intended - but even you have to admit that the average age of the drift/Initial D fanatics on this board is several years shy of legal driving age.

find me a video of a car in a controlled drift with all wheels facing perfectly forward and you can tell me I'm wrong about all wheel drifting, the fact of the matter is to control drift you must countersteer, even if it is only mildly (like I said before),

To control drift as you are referring to it, you are correct. But in true racing terms, a four-wheel drift is only happening when the front wheels are pointed directly forward or turned slightly into the turn. That is the only time that the front wheels are slipping laterally. If you are countersteering, then the front wheels are rolling ahead and it is not a four-wheel drift, but rather a skid. I'll try to scan the vector diagrams tonight if you are interested.

and as far as drifting being useful in autocross and rally where there are tight hairpins, what the hell do you consider a mountain pass? it sure as hell isn't nascar

True. Did you read my statement? There are times that oversteer has advantages. I stated that myself. I also gave an example of when it would be a disadvantage - during a long sweeper such as the ones seen in 99% of the drifting videos posted here.

as for the video you're talking about, I'm pretty sure it was a woman driver, it was an EVO VII no? white one? not only was she doing "wild drifting" she was passing everyone and their mother and looking damn good and skilled while doing it, what sucks is that she/he did make a minor mistake and as is the case when you're travelling at those speeds (even when not drifting) they lost it;

That's the one; you're correct that it was a woman because there are scenes at the end of her looking severely bummed at having balled up her car. Two things I need to clarify - 1) I never claimed she didn't have excellent car control, I just implied she had poor track manners; and 2) the reason she was passing everybody was that it was during an open track day and passing is only allowed under certain conditions. She was violating normal protocols; they weren't - so of course she was passing everybody. Notice that they all showed good sportsmanship about it, though, and stopped to help her out instead of laughing as they drove by.

I wouldn't have included any disrespect in my reply but you seem to have quite a bit in yours toward those defending the anime

The only reasons I have disrespect toward it (and those defending it) are clearly stated in my post. There's nothing inherently wrong with Initial D as a story/entertainment; it is just the behaviour of some of the diehard fans who consider it to be the Sacred Word that causes conflict. You'll also note that I busted on the attacker who was claiming not to know who Takumi was.

And please explain how I'm using oversteer and understeer oddly? I'm well aware of what the terms mean. If I hadn't explained myself clearly, I will try a different way.

 

[askia47]

Neon Duke i respect you and i am not forcing every body to like Initial D either. my point is that the creator of Initial D (sorry i forgot his name) wanted to make a steet racing manga (comic) and reasearched the topic in depth. now lets take an example from the comic book, not the anime. Takumi himself does things that may not be possible in physical terms like putting one set of the wheels in the gutter on the side of the road and doing a perfect turn. However the 4 wheeled drift is possible. also i am not a Initial D fanatic, just a good fan. Remember not all things in Initial d are true yet half of it is (the drifting that is, not the story)

 

[Duke]

Sure, and as a comic collector (with a few manga such as Akira - the recolorized version, anyway, and Appleseed and Tank Police) myself, I've got no problem with it on that level. Stories and entertainment are just that and it's fine to take some liberties to make a better story. But some people take that information as gospel and repeat it as Truth... which is never a good idea.

Maybe you guys should ask for a separate drifting forum? The Writeups forum works great because people who are interested in it go there, and it keeps the longer posts off of this board for those who aren't. A Drifting board would give interested people a place to hang out without inconveniencing everybody else.

 

[askia47]

thats an excellent idea, i'll ask jordan

 

[[Jetstorm]-R]

hmmm... after reading those posts... I've figured that Initial D is an inspiring Anime to all drivers. The purpose of drifting is the fastest way around a corner... easy? try it sidewayz...

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by [Jetstorm]-R
The purpose of drifting is the fastest way around a corner... easy? try it sidewayz...

Then, as practiced in the various drift videos, they are failing in their purpose.

Nobody said drifting was easy. Nobody said it didn't require good car control. But when it masquerades as a real racing technique, it's just silly.

By the way, you misspelled sideways.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by [Jetstorm]-R
hmmm... after reading those posts... I've figured that Initial D is an inspiring Anime to all drivers. The purpose of drifting is the fastest way around a corner... easy? try it sidewayz...

The fastest way around a corner is to roll through the straightest line and accellerate out without skidding at all. Drifting is just a fanciful way of saying skidding. It might look cool in a replay but in a race you just lose time.

 

[Seis]

Originally posted by neon_duke

The only reasons I have disrespect toward it (and those defending it) are clearly stated in my post. There's nothing inherently wrong with Initial D as a story/entertainment; it is just the behaviour of some of the diehard fans who consider it to be the Sacred Word that causes conflict. You'll also note that I busted on the attacker who was claiming not to know who Takumi was.

yes I couldn't agree more with that,

I don't have much 'love' for the younger people who watch initial d because it's a bandwagon type thing and keep talking about it more and more in a stupid manner,

that's the best I can explain it and I'm sure you know what I mean

I simply get a bit defensive when someone doesn't classify between the two types of people that watch it, and a lot of people who crack on it seem to forgetthat the classic theme of almost all anime is being more than you could ever be in real life and the whole hero aspect of it, of course none of this would happen in real life,

again I don't mean any disrespect now and am glad someone knows what they're talking about as far as drifting goes, the all wheel drift thing, I do know what you're talking about and agree that is an all wheel drift and perhaps the actual technical definition of it, but I've heard many other people refer to it a bit differently, in my opinion, it's just that, all a matter of opinion

as far as the oversteer understeer thing, I dono, I remember you used the terms correctly but it just struck me as a bit "funny" when describing drifting, probably just me not paying enough attention when reading, and now I don't feel like re reading at the moment,

I think I broke my ankle today...

 

[halfracedrift]

seis, everything was alright, but that late comment just confused me..

and the comment on the drifting rage
when you drift, all for tires lock up, and provide extremely minimal acceleration.. how the hell are you supposed to get outta the corner if you have no acceleration which = speed?

 

[[Jetstorm]-R]

Originally posted by halfracedrift
seis, everything was alright, but that late comment just confused me..

and the comment on the drifting rage
when you drift, all for tires lock up, and provide extremely minimal acceleration.. how the hell are you supposed to get outta the corner if you have no acceleration which = speed?

I agree.. it also depends ur speed going into the corner.. much different than going into a corner with hard braking and then turning.. losing speed. When drifting, u only slow down about 2-4RPM because of braking while initiating the drift. This doesn't slow down as much as hard braking and turning and realsing that ur up against the wall... which u will lose speed and time at the same time..

 

[SPiDEY]

Initial D is unrealistic and that's why I like it. What gives Initial D fans a bad rep is that alot of them are around my age, meaning they aren't at the peak of intelligence, respect or maturity, plus we get interested in unrealistic things far too easily. It is most likely us who you'll find at the bottom of a mountain or caught on a guardrail, tires worn from attempts at drifting, but just keep in mind thats a small amount of us, and most of us are at the age where we can respond and behave rationally. Dang, i've been asking for a drift forum forever!

 

[TingBoy]

Tho I love the Initial D series, I don't like some of the unrealistic scenes. Like when he's driftin in the snow.....and then that bump....He should've slid right off the mountain for cryin out loud lol ^_^

 

[SPiDEY]

Well, ya gotta remember that it was created by the Japanese AND for entertainment purposes. If you want realistic, go get Keiichi or something.

 

[Drift Addict]

initial D is a great anime. it IS a little on the unlrealistic side with the drifting dynamics and so forth, BUT it DOES teach you many things about cars and their characteristics. there's honestly nothing wrong with it.

 

[DrifterBR]

Initial D is unrealistic, like most animes are. You can drift as sideways as Takumi but you can't have that much speed at the same time.

Just do some searching about Touge Racing in Japan, you will see that, for drifting in those mountain pass, speed IS NOT important, the most sideways, the better. Drifting(refeering to touge drifting) is NOT a fast way to go through a corner, it's purely for FUN(and to make people throw up too).

And for Four-Wheel-Drift(aka Racing Drift, Neutral Steer), your tires will be slipping(slip is not the same thing as slide), if not, you are just driving too slow/conservative(rollercoaster effect). Why? Because racing tires have the best traction when the tires are slipping at about 6-10 degrees. You will barely notice the car sideways on the corner, unless the driver power-oversteer during the corner or oversteers a little in the exit of a tight corner.

 

[X5.]

Initial D has some cool driving effects, but personally if it had more cars from around the WORLD it would be da bomb.