The SHIFT physics thread

[Biggles]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about this already, but as it's scattered through dozens of pages, I thought it might make sense to gather thoughts on this into a single thread. Also, I think people's impressions have been constantly evolving as they get to grips with the game , so it should be interesting to see where it all ends up!

For myself (like many people) I've gone back & forth on this. My initial impression was very positive, as I found the steering & braking quite responsive. I think the over-riding impression was how the cars had a tendency to kick out while cornering. I think a lot of people were very disturbed by this, partly because it is so different from GT5P where understeering is the default characteristic. However, I think adjusting the settings in Shift & getting used to the balance of the cars pretty much deals with this issue.

My current impression of Shift is that the physics are basically "sim", but just too forgiving. Once you have established more precisely the braking points for a car on a particular track, it becomes too easy to fling the car around what should be tricky corners. As an example, the last corner at Brands Hatch GP swings to the right, off-camber & quite sharply downhill. Negotiating this corner at speed ought to be a matter of carefully finessing the throttle/grip to avoid understeer or oversteer, but in actuality it's possible to hurl the car around & down with very little trouble.

Yes, Shift feels different from GT5P or FC/SCC, but I'm not sure there's anything really wrong with the basic physics model in Shift (I know there are a bunch of bugs & glitches however), it's just a bit over-simplified. I have a strong suspicion that if they wanted to, the developers could increase the "sim" aspect.

 

[Clark]

I just think the car's front ends are way to over active, if you set up the cars for understeer they handle brilliantly, in a convincing sim style. Most of the lower down stock cars handle good aswell.

I just hope you can tune the race cars to set them up to drive nice.

 

[markao]

Not entirely on topic, but Biggles you can ask them (SMS) any question you want about the physics here:

Need for Speed Shift - Developer Q&A at VirtualR

"Slightly Mad Studio’s Ian Bell, Doug Arnao and Erro Pitulainen will be trying to answer all Shift and SMS-related questions VirtualR readers have - Just leave them in the comments."

 

[ANFD]

In what world does a normally good handling race car, hit a bump at speed and launch the nose of the car straight up in the air and then fly the car 30 feet off the ground. I realize that the Mercedes Le Mans cars got air born and flew but that was from speed and the lift coming off the uphill rise, not an invisible "bump" in the road. Does this qualify as a "Sim" ... I don't think so

 

[Biggles]

In what world does a normally good handling race car, hit a bump at speed and launch the nose of the car straight up in the air and then fly the car 30 feet off the ground. I realize that the Mercedes Le Mans cars got air born and flew but that was from speed and the lift coming off the uphill rise, not an invisible "bump" in the road. Does this qualify as a "Sim" ... I don't think so

I think that qualifies as a "glitch".

 

[khtse]

A picture (video) is worth a thousand words:

 

[F1KimiFreak]

A picture (video) is worth a thousand words:

Looks like an scene from semir and jan bmw from cobra 11 autobahnpolizei 👍 but its not... 👎

also experienced some huge bumps which make spa + porsche impossible ...
also the eight track endurance race is idiotic actually

edit: found video of it!

 

[Groundking]

^That's something I realy realy don't like about spa in shift.
One: Au rouge is about 50 times more bumpy than it is in real life, and the bumps make it so you have to follow the "racing line" through that corner, although that gives massive oversteer, and on a few other parts of the track, it's messed up pulling your car into stupid places (I.E. the barrier, then spinning you out on the sharp corner before au rouge.
Two: The fact that they've put the starting line before the most technical most annoying corner in the game, so when you try and get a good line captain scaleectric following the racing line clips you spinning you out.


-GK

 

[Tired Tyres]

That is the real start line. It is F1 that start from the "wrong" start line.

 

[atteiros]

I think that qualifies as a "glitch".

Yes, it's more of a glitch than an actual physics issue. If that's what classifies a game as a non-sim, then that would rule out all racing games. Each one has at least one glitch similar to that. GT4 had cars a lot of cars which unrealistically wheelie. In fact there's a whole thread for pictures of it on the GT4 subforums. But would people dare ask PD to take out the DRIVING SIMULATOR tag? But since this is a physics thread, these can be part of the discussion. I just hope people don't dwell on it.

This should also be similar to inconsistencies with the tracks vs real life counterparts unless it is directed to how the surfaces are represented.

The racing physics discussions would best be about what factors in racing the engine takes into account when determining car behavior, or if the team created computations to represent it correctly. If it is near GTR2 then starting that as a basis for the discussion would eventually start on the table on this wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators

In fact I hope someone edits that wiki with NFS Shift entries.

 

[niky]

Having just had a short go, I have this to say...

The Nurburgring feels... weird... in this game... the barriers look ten times too high and the track seems visually flat. The handling is incredibly challenging, at first, and the sense of movement is incredible... but areas that are a mind-bending challenge in GT4 seem to be too easy here... I often get lost (it's been a loooong time) and only after I've gone through do I realize... that was the Flugplatz? Why is my butt not puckering? We just went through Kesselchen? I thought that was a straight? Where's the challenge?

Of course... these are nasty criticisms for what basically amounted to an error-strewn nine and a half minute lap (in a stock MX5... all assists off except shifting... I hate the control map for shifting, and I was just borrowing the controller) but it's something...

The bouncing and shuddering over curbs and grass make clipping apexes more of a challenge, and the steering is twitchy, but the physics seem quite... forgiving... I really had to botch up a turn to get the car to spin, and I never entered terminal understeer.

It's sort of the like GT5P "standard" physics... quite detailed, but tuned for the novice. Supercars like the Zonda R are still a challenge, but that's basically down to control mapping. With traction control off... you can still actually keep it in a straight line at full throttle (though they probably made the throttle forgiving since they're mapped to the shoulder buttons) and you don't plow into the barriers if you enter a corner too quickly... but the twitchy steering makes picking a line harder than in GT.

Then again... I don't know if the physics model is quite as detailed as GT5P standard... Sure, you can feel differences in how the cars handle, but the nanny-state driving engine means that they all handle the same at the limit... almost-but-not-quite terminal understeer if you brake late (even with ABS off) and spins if you flail around (see-sawing with the steering) whatever car you're driving.

Still, a great effort, and an engaging game. Gives a greater sense of realism, on the top of it, but the driving physics feel tuned for a more general audience.

I wish they had an unlockable "pro" mode.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Is it me, or when it get's bouncy I restart my PS3 and it stops doing it. My Porsche Carrera GT race went without any bumps.

 

[cpp214]

Having just had a short go, I have this to say...

The Nurburgring feels... weird... in this game... the barriers look ten times too high and the track seems visually flat. The handling is incredibly challenging, at first, and the sense of movement is incredible... but areas that are a mind-bending challenge in GT4 seem to be too easy here... I often get lost (it's been a loooong time) and only after I've gone through do I realize... that was the Flugplatz? Why is my butt not puckering? We just went through Kesselchen? I thought that was a straight? Where's the challenge?

Of course... these are nasty criticisms for what basically amounted to an error-strewn nine and a half minute lap (in a stock MX5... all assists off except shifting... I hate the control map for shifting, and I was just borrowing the controller) but it's something...

The bouncing and shuddering over curbs and grass make clipping apexes more of a challenge, and the steering is twitchy, but the physics seem quite... forgiving... I really had to botch up a turn to get the car to spin, and I never entered terminal understeer.

It's sort of the like GT5P "standard" physics... quite detailed, but tuned for the novice. Supercars like the Zonda R are still a challenge, but that's basically down to control mapping. With traction control off... you can still actually keep it in a straight line at full throttle (though they probably made the throttle forgiving since they're mapped to the shoulder buttons) and you don't plow into the barriers if you enter a corner too quickly... but the twitchy steering makes picking a line harder than in GT.

Then again... I don't know if the physics model is quite as detailed as GT5P standard... Sure, you can feel differences in how the cars handle, but the nanny-state driving engine means that they all handle the same at the limit... almost-but-not-quite terminal understeer if you brake late (even with ABS off) and spins if you flail around (see-sawing with the steering) whatever car you're driving.

Still, a great effort, and an engaging game. Gives a greater sense of realism, on the top of it, but the driving physics feel tuned for a more general audience.

I wish they had an unlockable "pro" mode.

The physics in GT4 were so retarded that people (including me) could easily run sub 5 minute laps at the Ring. To put that in perspective, modern F1 cars couldn't even run a sub 6 minute time there.

I put in what I felt was a decent lap with the Zonda R yesterday at the Ring, and I ran a 7'08. I made tons of mistakes so I could probably trim that down to 7'00 or maybe even high 6's but certainly not a sub 5'00 time. I have to say from what I've seen so far, the physics in Shift are pretty realistic. To each their own though.

I'm a Shift fanboy though

 

[Tetradic]

It's very interesting reading people's impression of NFS:S. I agree with most of what niky's post above says... but... You have to change around GT5P and NFS:S. Shift's model on the Nordscliefe is a world away than GT4's, it's far more dynamic and much more captivating visually. Not to mention the track actually feels like you ate going up and down hills and going somewhere. The curbs are as they should be and the physics of the car on the curbs is spot on. Hit those red/white ones in a RWD car and see how fast you spin, that never happened in GT4. As for the physics I'd say Shift is far beyond GT5P's standard and in someways more involved that GT5P's professional physics (though GT5P would win overall, I can only assume GT5 will be better yet).

I'm not calling you out niky, I just find it fascinating how vastly different but the same (if you change around the game titles) our impressions are. Really fascinating stuff!

 

[Jay]

First I will say I haven't played it yet, though I have looked through tons of footage deciding if I should. One thing I noticed throughout the videos is the excessive yaw generated with quite minor inputs, for example look at the "dirty overtake" video post #6, when the BMW gets to the first corner he steers into it and look at the yaw, the front wheel is well into the grass yet the rest of the tyres are well off just from a bend like that. Even the twitches he make proir to the corner show a lot of yaw angle.

Give the impression the car rotates on a fairly fixed axis quite freely (like old rally games) to take turns.

 

[Biggles]

OK. Another 3 hours in & I'm now pretty sure what this game's all about (although bear in mind that I've mostly been driving Tier 1 & 2 cars).

In a nutshell: the more I play, the less "sim" it feels. When I started, the great sounds, the dynamic visuals, the FFB, the sense of the cars bouncing around over the uneven surface, the instability under braking, the tendency for the back-end to come out - ALL made the physics feel quite tricky & "sim". (And no, Jay, the cars don't rotate on their axis as in DiRT - I think that a lot of the pre-release videos showed inexperienced people (inexperienced at Shift that is) driving & struggling to keep the cars balanced.)

HOWEVER, as I play more I have come to realize that, where initially I was backing off the throttle & teasing the brakes as if that would keep the car under control (as in FC &, to a lesser extent in GT5P), in Shift ... YOU DON'T NEED TO!

That's right: you can hammer around corners, & even though the car feels (& even looks) unstable like a real sim, it sticks to the road unless you really overdo it.

I've particularly noticed this at the Nordschleife, where the car (my favourite up to now is the Elise) bounces & sways around the track in a very convincing way, but at the point where it might kick out as you apply throttle coming out of a corner, or understeer going into a corner, or the back-end slide forward under heavy braking ...
IT NEVER DOES!

This is not (as you might be tempted to think) because you've brilliantly saved it, it's because the game's physics protect you from all but the most extreme errors.

Yes, there's a lot to like about this game, but I'm now pretty convinced: it's not a "sim", it's a good "simcade".

 

[niky]

The physics in GT4 were so retarded that people (including me) could easily run sub 5 minute laps at the Ring. To put that in perspective, modern F1 cars couldn't even run a sub 6 minute time there.

I put in what I felt was a decent lap with the Zonda R yesterday at the Ring, and I ran a 7'08. I made tons of mistakes so I could probably trim that down to 7'00 or maybe even high 6's but certainly not a sub 5'00 time. I have to say from what I've seen so far, the physics in Shift are pretty realistic. To each their own though.

I'm a Shift fanboy though

Begs the question... sub five minutes in... what kind of car? It takes a race car on R-Comps to run sub-5s. And then... not all race cars can do it... I think I did mid-5s on a fully-modified Escudo... sideways for half a lap...

Modern F1s have not done a full lap on the Nurb... at least not in complete anger. The one done by BMW was more for publicity, and Nick said he was actually holding a lot in reserve... (if my memory serves me right) the course was just so tricky that it would be dangerous to go full out.

The Zonda R is a supercar. Run a supercar on the Ring in GT4 on N2 tires, which are basically equivalent to stock in GT4, whatever road car you're in... and you'll struggle to hit that time.

In GT4 and GT5P... you can't even drive a 750 horsepower rear-wheel drive car without R-Compounds. In Shift, you can mash the throttle with impunity. Yes, it feels like it'll come around... eventually... but it's not the instant loss of traction you'd get if you did anything so foolish in real life. And it's remarkably hard to get any car completely out of sorts.

Like Biggles has said... initially... it feels very, very "sim". The visceral feedback is quite amazing. But once you look beyond the visual, audio and force feedback and check out what the car is doing, there are some things which are clearly geared towards making Shift easier for the casual player.

I noticed this after just five laps in three cars... If I'd driven the Zonda like that in GT4... I wouldn't have made it three corners in. In Shift, many of the trickiest corners of the Nordschlieffe pass by without my even noticing them.

That's how big a difference there is between this and GT. The huge difficulty in Shift is less a factor of at-the-limit-trickiness and more a factor of how twitchy the controls are, how bumpy the tracks are and how frenetic the gameplay is... despite this... the game is surprisingly forgiving once you've overjudged a corner.

It's not a bad game, mind you. The physics engine itself seems incredibly detailed, tire scrubbing under braking with ABS off... axle-hop... tire pressure adjustments... wheelspin and hook-up... all feel very well-modelled (except for the bouncing problem... which should be cured with the very first patch), and it will take weeks of playing to flesh it out... but, like Biggles says, Shift is more "simcade" than "sim".

Still... the best NFS I've played in a looooooong time... and well worth the purchase price.

Now if they could only fix the glitches...

 

[Tired Tyres]

I've found in an extended session around Brands Hatch Indy in a variety of cars with a DFGT in Pro difficulty and all assistance off that there still seems to be some sort of assistance going on making it very difficult to actually lose the car.

It is comically easy to drive these cars compared to GT5P. What happened to the Pro handling model that required a steering wheel? Perhaps it's a bug and it hasn't been actually switched on in-game?

 

[niky]

Maybe you need to earn $1,000,000,000 dollars in-game, and you'll have to buy the Pro handling mode online?

Get cracking.

 

[LR-PR-ProtoX]

Honestly i think we got the worse version of all consoles. My cousin has the xbox360 versions and everything looks different, car modelings, bumps and steering seems much better. I can only bet that the PC version will be better. Now, EA what were u thinking, selling a half finished game to us?!? Man, this patch better come soon, maybe we should start a patch petition and send to EA, just thinking out loud. Cant believe it.

 

[Biggles]

The huge difficulty in Shift is less a factor of at-the-limit-trickiness and more a factor of how twitchy the controls are, how bumpy the tracks are and how frenetic the gameplay is... despite this... the game is surprisingly forgiving once you've overjudged a corner.

Yup, that's it. Shift feels tricky, but isn't, because when you feel like you might lose it, you never actually do! The car may bounce around, but in the end it stays stuck to the road.

It's been a while since I've run the Ring in GT4 (unfortunately, I can't seem to find my copy ), but I seem to remember that, in spite of the over-simplified physics, pushing a car fast around the Ring - a Ruf for instance - required a pretty fine touch. Driving the Ring fast in Enthusia, particularly a powerful RWD car, is VERY difficult: the sequence of corners at the end of the last, long straight is a heartbreaker - going in too fast inevitably causes the back end to come round under braking instability. In Shift you barely have to brake at all.

However, what Shift does illustrate, is how uninteresting the FFB is in GT5P (something I've gone on about (a lot! ) vs. Ferrari Challenge). Unfortunately, the great FFB in Shift is overlaying a rather arcade physics model.

 

[cpp214]

Here's a brief list of the things Shift does better than GT5P:

A) Sounds. Not even close. The cars in Shift sound so much better--even the "slow" stock cars--that it's not even funny This adds immensely to the whole driving experience and sense of realism.

B) Shift simulates the process of weight transfer better than Prologue. When you are driving a heavy car--or any car for that matter--you can really feel the weight shifting and moving around, not just in corners, but at high speeds.

C) Shift does a better job of re-creating a sense of speed. In other words, when you are driving fast, you know it--and this is not just due to the "blur" effect. The FFB, detailed road imperfections, and weight transfer effect, all contribute to giving you a sense that you are really going fast--unlike Prologue, in which you can be accelerating from 80 MPH to 200 MPH along the Fuji straight and it feels like a nice Sunday drive.

D) Shift does a better job of simulating "imperfections" or bumps and undulations on the racetrack itself. In some cases this can be quite annoying, as these bumps can sometimes unsettle your car to the point of being undriveable. But, nevertheless, on the whole Shift does an excellent job of re-creating the bumpiness and slight imperfections you would find on real-life tracks. In Prologue, most of the tracks are incredibly flat and smooth--I guess they must have all been resurfaced on the day that Polyphony decided to scan them

E) While you may not be able to modulate the braking as well as Prologue, Shift does a better job of simulating what real-life threshold braking would be like. If you have misjudged a corner in Shift and brake too late--you WILL go off track. Sometimes in Prologue, simply mashing the brakes late would be enough to keep the car on track. Also, Shift does a better job of simulating "proper" braking. By that I mean simulating the importance of keeping the car balanced and in a relatively straight line when braking. Heading into a corner in Shift, if your car is veering to the left or right and you brake even remotely heavily, chances are you are going to spin or unsettle the car dramatically.

F) I'm pretty sure Shift does a better job of simulating what it's actually like to go off track in your car. While Prologue was a major improvement over GT4's off-track physics, Shift is even better in simulating the loss of control and sheer hazard of going off-track.

G) Damage: while Shift's visual damage model doesn't go very far at all, it is nevertheless better than Prologue's damage mo...wait, Prologue doesn't even simulate damage at all In Shift, you at least have consequences for poor driving, in the form of visual (very little) and mechanical damage. Keep running into other cars, scraping barriers and just plain slamming into walls and you will notice that the geometry of your car's suspension has been seriously affected, making it hard for you to keep the thing on track.

H) FFB will always be a matter of taste. IMO Prologue's FFB is obviously much smoother, consistent and more refined than Shift's.
However, Shift's FFB does a few things better than Prologue's and they are related to a couple of the categories above. The FFB in Shift communicates more effectively what is going on with the car in terms of the car's balance on the road ("road feel"). It also does a better job of simulating how a car behaves at high speeds IMO as it becomes a little more difficult to keep the car in a straight line.

I) Online play. Shift gives players the ability to create private rooms and customize races--loads better than Prologue. While Shift only allows 8 drivers on the track, it also provides--from what I have seen so far--lag-free online racing, with no "failed matches" and no PAL/NTSC region-locking. Overall, I think Shift's online is at least on par with--if not better than Prologue's online.

J) Voice chat: in Shift, you can chat with your friends in the online race lobby, and during races as well. Awesome Obviously, in GT5P, no voice chat 👎 I can't think of many real SIMS that don't have that feature nowadays to be honest.

Also, for those who think Shift's physics are too "easy." Go out and buy a 350Z in Shift, fully modify it with at least all stage 2 upgrades and then take it out on the track. If you can put in a clean lap without any offs, spins or barrier impacts, then I salute you Prologue had 9 different tire compounds for each car, and most people are accustomed to driving the cars on S2 or S3 tires--very rarely on R tires. Tire compound simulation is one area in which Prologue has an advantage over Shift. Graphics are another, but just by a smidgen. User interface is also another. Prologue's menus are a little more intuitive and "user friendly."

Also, in Prologue, some cars had a nasty habit of losing control with little or no warning. You're going along with traction, traction, traction, oops! I spun out No more traction. Shift does a better job of communicating to you what is going on with the car--so naturally, you are less likely to lose traction if you know what is going on with the car and how far you can push it...that makes sense, doesn't it?

This is the one small area where Shift's driving physics don't quite equal Prologue's--it's a little easier to control the car under acceleration than Prologue. That's it so far as I can tell. And again, I hope all the people who are saying this have actually tried some high-powered, Tier 3 and Tier 4 cars on a variety of tracks. And also, when you are making these kind of criticisms, if it's not already in your signature, please let us know if you are using a wheel or a controller. That makes a huge difference.

I've been playing this game for nearly a week now, and I haven't even once considered taking it out of my PS3 and putting Prologue in. Call it heresy, but Shift is a more fun, immersive SIM than GT5 Prologue. And yes, Shift is just as much of a SIM as Prologue. It has more tuning options, more upgrade options, a livery editor, it simulates road feel, sounds, damage and weight transfer better than Prologue. However, it is wrapped in an Arcade-like presentation. So what? It's still a great game.

 

[sejtur]

Shifts physics are pretty good, but way more inprecise than GT5P's.

 

[Biggles]

Here's a brief list of the things Shift does better than GT5P:

A) Sounds. Not even close. The cars in Shift sound so much better--even the "slow" stock cars--that it's not even funny This adds immensely to the whole driving experience and sense of realism.

B) Shift simulates the process of weight transfer better than Prologue. When you are driving a heavy car--or any car for that matter--you can really feel the weight shifting and moving around, not just in corners, but at high speeds.

C) Shift does a better job of re-creating a sense of speed. In other words, when you are driving fast, you know it--and this is not just due to the "blur" effect. The FFB, detailed road imperfections, and weight transfer effect, all contribute to giving you a sense that you are really going fast--unlike Prologue, in which you can be accelerating from 80 MPH to 200 MPH along the Fuji straight and it feels like a nice Sunday drive.

D) Shift does a better job of simulating "imperfections" or bumps and undulations on the racetrack itself. In some cases this can be quite annoying, as these bumps can sometimes unsettle your car to the point of being undriveable. But, nevertheless, on the whole Shift does an excellent job of re-creating the bumpiness and slight imperfections you would find on real-life tracks. In Prologue, most of the tracks are incredibly flat and smooth--I guess they must have all been resurfaced on the day that Polyphony decided to scan them

E) While you may not be able to modulate the braking as well as Prologue, Shift does a better job of simulating what real-life threshold braking would be like. If you have misjudged a corner in Shift and brake too late--you WILL go off track. Sometimes in Prologue, simply mashing the brakes late would be enough to keep the car on track. Also, Shift does a better job of simulating "proper" braking. By that I mean simulating the importance of keeping the car balanced and in a relatively straight line when braking. Heading into a corner in Shift, if your car is veering to the left or right and you brake even remotely heavily, chances are you are going to spin or unsettle the car dramatically.

F) I'm pretty sure Shift does a better job of simulating what it's actually like to go off track in your car. While Prologue was a major improvement over GT4's off-track physics, Shift is even better in simulating the loss of control and sheer hazard of going off-track.

G) Damage: while Shift's visual damage model doesn't go very far at all, it is nevertheless better than Prologue's damage mo...wait, Prologue doesn't even simulate damage at all In Shift, you at least have consequences for poor driving, in the form of visual (very little) and mechanical damage. Keep running into other cars, scraping barriers and just plain slamming into walls and you will notice that the geometry of your car's suspension has been seriously affected, making it hard for you to keep the thing on track.

H) FFB will always be a matter of taste. IMO Prologue's FFB is obviously much smoother, consistent and more refined than Shift's.
However, Shift's FFB does a few things better than Prologue's and they are related to a couple of the categories above. The FFB in Shift communicates more effectively what is going on with the car in terms of the car's balance on the road ("road feel"). It also does a better job of simulating how a car behaves at high speeds IMO as it becomes a little more difficult to keep the car in a straight line.

I) Online play. Shift gives players the ability to create private rooms and customize races--loads better than Prologue. While Shift only allows 8 drivers on the track, it also provides--from what I have seen so far--lag-free online racing, with no "failed matches" and no PAL/NTSC region-locking. Overall, I think Shift's online is at least on par with--if not better than Prologue's online.

Also, for those who think Shift's physics are too "easy." Go out and buy a 350Z in Shift, fully modify it with at least all stage 2 upgrades and then take it out on the track. If you can put in a clean lap without any offs, spins or barrier impacts, then I salute you Prologue had 9 different tire compounds for each car, and most people are accustomed to driving the cars on S2 or S3 tires--very rarely on R tires. Tire compound simulation is one area in which Prologue has an advantage over Shift. Graphics are another, but just by a smidgen. User interface is also another. Prologue's menus are a little more intuitive and "user friendly."

Also, in Prologue, some cars had a nasty habit of losing control with little or no warning. You're going along with traction, traction, traction, oops! I spun out No more traction. Shift does a better job of communicating to you what is going on with the car--so naturally, you are less likely to lose traction if you know what is going on with the car and how far you can push it...that makes sense, doesn't it?

This is the one small area where Shift's driving physics don't quite equal Prologue's--it's a little easier to control the car under acceleration than Prologue. That's it so far as I can tell. And again, I hope all the people who are saying this have actually tried some high-powered, Tier 3 and Tier 4 cars on a variety of tracks. And also, when you are making these kind of criticisms, if it's not already in your signature, please let us know if you are using a wheel or a controller. That makes a huge difference.

I've been playing this game for nearly a week now, and I haven't even once considered taking it out of my PS3 and putting Prologue in. Call it heresy, but Shift is a more fun, immersive SIM than GT5 Prologue. And yes, Shift is just as much of a SIM as Prologue. It has more tuning options, more upgrade options, a livery editor, it simulates road feel, sounds, damage and weight transfer better than Prologue. However, it is wrapped in an Arcade-like presentation. So what? It's still a great game.

Fanboy.

Actually, I agree with all your points. They sound similar to my GT5P/FC 10 Reasons thread. BUT, unfortunately, it's not just the presentation that's "arcade", it's also the physics. Once you start pushing the cars harder, the cars don't bite back. For example: weight-transfer - yes, it's there, you feel it (much better than GT5P), but as the weight swings out & you think you might lose the car ...

you don't! Unless you're really going much too fast, the car will continue to track around the corner.

It's still a great game, but definitely simcade rather than sim. However, I do get the feeling that the sim physics are there somewhere but have been backed off to make the game more "user-friendly".

 

[JosVerstappen]

shift has pretty decent FFB but not as good as any PC sim, I mean it doesnt even have a FFB menu.....

only way to tweak is through cfg's, which you can only do on PC

 

[stepvan]

Here's a brief list of the things Shift does better than GT5P:

A) Sounds. Not even close. The cars in Shift sound so much better--even the "slow" stock cars--that it's not even funny This adds immensely to the whole driving experience and sense of realism.

B) Shift simulates the process of weight transfer better than Prologue. When you are driving a heavy car--or any car for that matter--you can really feel the weight shifting and moving around, not just in corners, but at high speeds.

C) Shift does a better job of re-creating a sense of speed. In other words, when you are driving fast, you know it--and this is not just due to the "blur" effect. The FFB, detailed road imperfections, and weight transfer effect, all contribute to giving you a sense that you are really going fast--unlike Prologue, in which you can be accelerating from 80 MPH to 200 MPH along the Fuji straight and it feels like a nice Sunday drive.

D) Shift does a better job of simulating "imperfections" or bumps and undulations on the racetrack itself. In some cases this can be quite annoying, as these bumps can sometimes unsettle your car to the point of being undriveable. But, nevertheless, on the whole Shift does an excellent job of re-creating the bumpiness and slight imperfections you would find on real-life tracks. In Prologue, most of the tracks are incredibly flat and smooth--I guess they must have all been resurfaced on the day that Polyphony decided to scan them

E) While you may not be able to modulate the braking as well as Prologue, Shift does a better job of simulating what real-life threshold braking would be like. If you have misjudged a corner in Shift and brake too late--you WILL go off track. Sometimes in Prologue, simply mashing the brakes late would be enough to keep the car on track. Also, Shift does a better job of simulating "proper" braking. By that I mean simulating the importance of keeping the car balanced and in a relatively straight line when braking. Heading into a corner in Shift, if your car is veering to the left or right and you brake even remotely heavily, chances are you are going to spin or unsettle the car dramatically.

F) I'm pretty sure Shift does a better job of simulating what it's actually like to go off track in your car. While Prologue was a major improvement over GT4's off-track physics, Shift is even better in simulating the loss of control and sheer hazard of going off-track.

G) Damage: while Shift's visual damage model doesn't go very far at all, it is nevertheless better than Prologue's damage mo...wait, Prologue doesn't even simulate damage at all In Shift, you at least have consequences for poor driving, in the form of visual (very little) and mechanical damage. Keep running into other cars, scraping barriers and just plain slamming into walls and you will notice that the geometry of your car's suspension has been seriously affected, making it hard for you to keep the thing on track.

H) FFB will always be a matter of taste. IMO Prologue's FFB is obviously much smoother, consistent and more refined than Shift's.
However, Shift's FFB does a few things better than Prologue's and they are related to a couple of the categories above. The FFB in Shift communicates more effectively what is going on with the car in terms of the car's balance on the road ("road feel"). It also does a better job of simulating how a car behaves at high speeds IMO as it becomes a little more difficult to keep the car in a straight line.

I) Online play. Shift gives players the ability to create private rooms and customize races--loads better than Prologue. While Shift only allows 8 drivers on the track, it also provides--from what I have seen so far--lag-free online racing, with no "failed matches" and no PAL/NTSC region-locking. Overall, I think Shift's online is at least on par with--if not better than Prologue's online.

Also, for those who think Shift's physics are too "easy." Go out and buy a 350Z in Shift, fully modify it with at least all stage 2 upgrades and then take it out on the track. If you can put in a clean lap without any offs, spins or barrier impacts, then I salute you Prologue had 9 different tire compounds for each car, and most people are accustomed to driving the cars on S2 or S3 tires--very rarely on R tires. Tire compound simulation is one area in which Prologue has an advantage over Shift. Graphics are another, but just by a smidgen. User interface is also another. Prologue's menus are a little more intuitive and "user friendly."

Also, in Prologue, some cars had a nasty habit of losing control with little or no warning. You're going along with traction, traction, traction, oops! I spun out No more traction. Shift does a better job of communicating to you what is going on with the car--so naturally, you are less likely to lose traction if you know what is going on with the car and how far you can push it...that makes sense, doesn't it?

This is the one small area where Shift's driving physics don't quite equal Prologue's--it's a little easier to control the car under acceleration than Prologue. That's it so far as I can tell. And again, I hope all the people who are saying this have actually tried some high-powered, Tier 3 and Tier 4 cars on a variety of tracks. And also, when you are making these kind of criticisms, if it's not already in your signature, please let us know if you are using a wheel or a controller. That makes a huge difference.

I've been playing this game for nearly a week now, and I haven't even once considered taking it out of my PS3 and putting Prologue in. Call it heresy, but Shift is a more fun, immersive SIM than GT5 Prologue. And yes, Shift is just as much of a SIM as Prologue. It has more tuning options, more upgrade options, a livery editor, it simulates road feel, sounds, damage and weight transfer better than Prologue. However, it is wrapped in an Arcade-like presentation. So what? It's still a great game.

Good post:tup: ...Also, did you mention chatting to your mates?

 

[cpp214]

Good post:tup: ...Also, did you mention chatting to your mates?

Completely forgot about that one. Thanks for the reminder 👍 Fixed.

 

[Kataclysm]

I am using the PC version.

There has been talk of the cars in Shift rotating on a fixed axis. some agree some don't. I was in the 'they don't' camp, but I noticed in the replays the front wheels don't turn, or only turn about 2 degrees, no matter how severe the corner, and the car definitely rotates.

You can clearly see this in the rear chase view by holding down the 2 key on the keypad, and rotating the car slightly to one side with the 4 or 5 keys.

I was a bit concerned by the lack of, what seemed to me, front tyre scrub, tyre slip angle etc. If the front wheels don't turn but the rear comes round, as in rotates, that would explain it.

Then again I could be talking a load of rubbish.!!

 

[skazz]

First up, as I'm sure other PC GTR Evo owners will agree, it looks like Shift bought the Simbin Nordschleife and copied it over. The corners and most of the bumps are EXACTLY the same as in GTR Evo. Now you can google plenty of comparisons between real life footage and GTR Evo's track, and basically the track is agreed to be very accurate with nicely realistic gradients, so this is a good thing.

I have ended up being able to compare Shift PC and PS3 versions. I initially bought the PC version, enjoyed it, but got frustrated at the fact that my previous generation PC has trouble with it, so I decided to buy the PS3 version too....Sadly what I found was that while the PS3 version is rock solid, there's something just not quite right with the wheel support. I found a vague sensation of disconnection which simply isn't there in the PC version. I ended up trading my PS3 version back in after spending a few hours confirming my feeling, and I just have the PC version despite heavy slowdowns when playing against the AI. The FFB feels slightly more communicative and there is more of a connected feel.

Now I will add that I tried the PS3 version with my DFGT and the PC version with my G25, but I have compared those wheels previously both on PC and in GT5P, and I'm sure my felt differences were more than just different wheels.

So take that as you like. I'd recommend anyone who is tempted by this game to think about getting the PC version if they have current generation modern PC which can cope.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I tried the PC demo with my DFGT and it was no where near as good as the PS3 version with that wheel.

The graphic were better, the damage is better but a lot of slow down at the start of a race when all the AI cars are on screen.