The SHIFT physics thread

[niky]

Depends on the grip of your tires and how hot "way hot" is... given the one or two cars that are in Shift that I've actually driven in real life... the fact that you can basically mash the brake pedal with ABS off and not get terminal understeer is a sore point.

Like I've said, though... drive with precision and as you would in real life... and it feels completely realistic. Sudden snap-oversteer, some understeer under braking, weight shift and tire scrub are all quite satisfyingly modelled. Drive over the edge on purpose, however, and it eases you into gentle and easily recoverable four-wheel drifts. (given the steering and soft suspension of a stock NC Miata, drift recovery is somewhat messy... though yes, not hard) A behavior that most other "sim" and "simlike" games don't encourage you to pursue.

 

[Stotty]

Perhaps I haven't noticed it as it's just not how I drive

 

[niky]

Yes... it's a bad habit of mine. I must stop, I know... but since I've found a game that encourages it in a way that no game since GT3 has...

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

That has nothing to do with the game mechanics, but is the result of putting the steering sensitivity (linearity) at 100%. It means you get all the steering response in the first bit of steering motion and virtually none in the rest. Try 50% with a lower steering angle (like 400-500 or so).

I will give it a go this evening to see if that makes any difference at all. i remember seeing that illustration earlier but didn't "click" in my head to try it. I know for racing having the wheel at 900* and the sensitivity at 100% i find it nice and balanced for steering inputs on a racing line, but for trying to Drift in Race-mode, no good. thanks 👍

 

[WolfRacer543]

That has nothing to do with the game mechanics, but is the result of putting the steering sensitivity (linearity) at 100%. It means you get all the steering response in the first bit of steering motion and virtually none in the rest. Try 50% with a lower steering angle (like 400-500 or so).

Are you sure that's how it works? I thought 0% was linear in this game (the devs recommend using 0% with a logitech wheel set to 360-450 degrees, or higher if you tune the car to have faster steering).

 

[NLxAROSA]

I will give it a go this evening to see if that makes any difference at all. i remember seeing that illustration earlier but didn't "click" in my head to try it. I know for racing having the wheel at 900* and the sensitivity at 100% i find it nice and balanced for steering inputs on a racing line, but for trying to Drift in Race-mode, no good. thanks 👍

Please let know if it works.

Are you sure that's how it works? I thought 0% was linear in this game (the devs recommend using 0% with a logitech wheel set to 360-450 degrees, or higher if you tune the car to have faster steering).

If I recall correctly, the devs recommended 50% for the steering sensitivity and 0% for the speed dependant steering sensitivity.

 

[WolfRacer543]

If I recall correctly, the devs recommended 50% for the steering sensitivity and 0% for the speed dependant steering sensitivity.

Oh yeah, my bad, confused the two of them

 

[Biggles]

Like I've said, though... drive with precision and as you would in real life... and it feels completely realistic. Sudden snap-oversteer, some understeer under braking, weight shift and tire scrub are all quite satisfyingly modelled. Drive over the edge on purpose, however, and it eases you into gentle and easily recoverable four-wheel drifts. (given the steering and soft suspension of a stock NC Miata, drift recovery is somewhat messy... though yes, not hard) A behavior that most other "sim" and "simlike" games don't encourage you to pursue.

Driving in Shift at more moderate speeds is entirely convincing - great cockpit, great sound, great visuals, great FFB - it's the most realistic feeling driving experience I've had in a game. It's when you start pushing harder that the limitations of the physics become evident & it starts feeling less realistic.

 

[The Outlaw]

Driving in Shift at more moderate speeds is entirely convincing - great cockpit, great sound, great visuals, great FFB - it's the most realistic feeling driving experience I've had in a game. It's when you start pushing harder that the limitations of the physics become evident & it starts feeling less realistic.

I agree with you guys, and unfortunately this is why I had to put Shift down after playing for a few weeks As you say, the game feels quite convincing when driving at slower speeds and driving within the limit using smooth and precise inputs. The road surface, braking, and weight transfer seem to be portrayed much better in Shift than say GT5P. But once you start pushing past the limit (in reality) controlling the car is entirely too easy and your lap times seem to reward an overly aggressive driving style...which in NO WAY would be possible in real life

I spent a good deal of time with the GT3RS 9.98 on Stage III tires @ Spa and the car just didn't feel convincing whatsoever powering out of the corners...and this was one of the best (most realistic) feeling cars in the game IMO. In fact the car felt more like a AWD car, especially how it was able to power out (full throttle) of a massive slip angle (probably 10 degrees of yaw :lol), on slick tires (which generally don't do well in such a situation). Of course GT5P has its downfalls in terms of physics and sterility, but Shifts downfalls are much greater and obvious IMO. Just my 2 cents

 

[EA11R]

The terrible mushy feeling in the M3 is exactly the same as what I experience in real life. In my '99 Altima. I'm starting to think this is one of those many games that perfectly simulates the wrong scenario.

 

[Dragonistic]

What's with the 900hp works viper struggling to get over 300kmh? Even if you back off the aero and spread the gears as much as possible, the car races to 200kmh then hits a wall and can barely reach 300. Doesn't seem too realistic

I was wondering about this when I saw a youtube video with a similar problem, what is that all about?

 

[Biggles]

I agree with you guys, and unfortunately this is why I had to put Shift down after playing for a few weeks As you say, the game feels quite convincing when driving at slower speeds and driving within the limit using smooth and precise inputs. The road surface, braking, and weight transfer seem to be portrayed much better in Shift than say GT5P. But once you start pushing past the limit (in reality) controlling the car is entirely too easy and your lap times seem to reward an overly aggressive driving style...which in NO WAY would be possible in real life

I spent a good deal of time with the GT3RS 9.98 on Stage III tires @ Spa and the car just didn't feel convincing whatsoever powering out of the corners...and this was one of the best (most realistic) feeling cars in the game IMO. In fact the car felt more like a AWD car, especially how it was able to power out (full throttle) of a massive slip angle (probably 10 degrees of yaw :lol), on slick tires (which generally don't do well in such a situation). Of course GT5P has its downfalls in terms of physics and sterility, but Shifts downfalls are much greater and obvious IMO. Just my 2 cents

I totally agree with you agreeing with me!

I love all the Porsches - they sound beautiful, but when you start pushing them harder they don't spin out even if you mash the throttle with a "massive slip angle". I'm getting beaten by the AI because I can't bring myself to drive in the way the game allows you to.

However, I just did a 2 lap race around the Ring in a stock S2000. It was a great race - avoided all contact & drove "realistically" just managing to sneak past the lead car for the win at the end of the last lap. The S2000, while perhaps not totally realistic in the way it oversteers, does require a very delicate foot on the throttle in order to keep the car balanced. It actually reminded me quite a bit of Enthusia - perhaps a bit less realistic in the balance between oversteer & understeer, but with Shift's far superior visuals, sound, FFB, & much better AI.

This makes me think that, while there are some very sexy cars in Shift, the cars providing the more worthwhile driving experience are the (stock) Tier 1 & 2 cars. That's where you can get the most out of Shift's physics.

Hmmm... just bought the Mazda Mx5 & ran the same race. Completely different from the S2000 (even though you might think they would have something in common). It was possible to apply full throttle through many of the corners. Maybe there's just something different about the way the S2000 was modeled? (I like the 135I more interesting too, because it's a bit trickier to handle also.)

 

[myke6699]

Depends on the grip of your tires and how hot "way hot" is... given the one or two cars that are in Shift that I've actually driven in real life... the fact that you can basically mash the brake pedal with ABS off and not get terminal understeer is a sore point.

Like I've said, though... drive with precision and as you would in real life... and it feels completely realistic. Sudden snap-oversteer, some understeer under braking, weight shift and tire scrub are all quite satisfyingly modelled. Drive over the edge on purpose, however, and it eases you into gentle and easily recoverable four-wheel drifts. (given the steering and soft suspension of a stock NC Miata, drift recovery is somewhat messy... though yes, not hard) A behavior that most other "sim" and "simlike" games don't encourage you to pursue.

I find that the only car(s) that behave well with ABS off are the ones that have none in RL. The ones that I've driven in the game so far that I'm sure are ABS-less (in RL) are the Nissan Skyline 2000GT-R and the MacLaren F1. With most of the other cars, especially high powered RWD, turning off the ABS would result in oversteer, especially (exit) lift-off oversteer. Actually a bit of that is quite normal in car of that type (eg. Ferrari F40, another ABS-less car) although not to the extent you'd get in this game. Personally, I tend to keep the ABS on all cars that come with it in RL and turn it off on those without.

If the oversteer still persist, I'd tackle the suspension by stiffening up the front more so than the rear. Still, I find the oversteering to be not as bothersome as FC where almost all the cars tend to oversteer and no amount of adjustment could alleviate the problem.

 

[Stotty]

I've found the LSD settings to be very effective at fixing both entry and exit oversteer... and also to make cars turn-in faster.

The settings work much better in Shift than GTP.

 

[danjama]

I've found the LSD settings to be very effective at fixing both entry and exit oversteer... and also to make cars turn-in faster.

The settings work much better in Shift than GTP.

what settings do you use?

...

I completely agree with you Biggles about the lower tier cars being more realistic to race online with.

I think a big part of the problem with higher tier cars is only idiots drive the, and they don't ever brake, they either fly off the track at every bend or ram you. Lower tier cars are more controllable and so people find it easier to remain calm and remember to brake and turn when needed.

I had a really good race last night against one guy, both driving stock Scirrocos around the Nurburgring for 2 laps. We exchanged places several times, and despite the mediocre speeds, it was very exciting. I'm trying to arrange an AE86 meet at the Ring but it seems nobodys interested. Maybe that ones just too slow for them....

 

[Stotty]

what settings do you use?

Car oversteers on entry to the corner... increase LSD decel
Car understeers on entry to the corner... reduce LSD decel
Car oversteers under power on corner exit... increase LSD accl
Car understeers under power on corner exit.. reduce LSD accl

I start at the nominal 50/50 and adjust accordingly in 1 click movements until I find the balance I like

Important: LSD accl only helps with traction induced oversteer and does not fix momentum induced oversteer.. you need to adjust anti-roll bar settings and shocks to fix that... the anti-roll bars settings are particularly important to get right with the diff settings as this is how the balance of the car is set.

 

[ItsHim]

I've read through the better part of the previous posts, and many of my sentiments seem to be shared in general.

Shift is a bit of a mixed bag for me:

Tuning and career mode seem almost like an afterthought to me, feel unpolished and unfinished. On the other hand, quick races with stock cars are exactly my cup of tea.

While I welcome the type of realism to be found in GT (or Forza for that matter), which largely relies on the game developer's approach of recreating the illusion that real physics are at work and are affecting grip and generally how the car modell reacts to user inputs, Shift does feel to me like it uses the same power to reflect these forces visually.

The only real question for me was if I could adjust to the way Shift expects the player to handle the inputs - be it steering, throttle or brake. And after two or three hours getting used to I'd say SMS did a pretty good job.

It's challenging enough to keep me wanting to run Spa or Brands Hatch in all the stock cars provided over and over again, against a varying number of opponents. I found subtleties in many tracks that encourage me to keep working on my lines, because the underlying "physics" are just good enough to create the sense of actual realism.

Having driven the latest BMW 1 Series quite a good deal lately, it feels quite good represented in the game.

My verdict is that the physics of the stock cars feel, after some getting used to the controls, good enough so that I don't keep thinking about them.

Tuning on the other hand seems glitched and flawed, but I can happily do without it because quick race keeps me that busy.

It won't keep me from the philosophy of games like GT, but I warmly welcome the new kid on the block. It's good enough in the physics department handling wise but really shines translating the basic Newton Laws into a visual feast.

 

[myke6699]

I've read through the better part of the previous posts, and many of my sentiments seem to be shared in general.

Shift is a bit of a mixed bag for me:

Tuning and career mode seem almost like an afterthought to me, feel unpolished and unfinished. On the other hand, quick races with stock cars are exactly my cup of tea.

While I welcome the type of realism to be found in GT (or Forza for that matter), which largely relies on the game developer's approach of recreating the illusion that real physics are at work and are affecting grip and generally how the car modell reacts to user inputs, Shift does feel to me like it uses the same power to reflect these forces visually.

The only real question for me was if I could adjust to the way Shift expects the player to handle the inputs - be it steering, throttle or brake. And after two or three hours getting used to I'd say SMS did a pretty good job.

It's challenging enough to keep me wanting to run Spa or Brands Hatch in all the stock cars provided over and over again, against a varying number of opponents. I found subtleties in many tracks that encourage me to keep working on my lines, because the underlying "physics" are just good enough to create the sense of actual realism.

Having driven the latest BMW 1 Series quite a good deal lately, it feels quite good represented in the game.

My verdict is that the physics of the stock cars feel, after some getting used to the controls, good enough so that I don't keep thinking about them.

Tuning on the other hand seems glitched and flawed, but I can happily do without it because quick race keeps me that busy.

It won't keep me from the philosophy of games like GT, but I warmly welcome the new kid on the block. It's good enough in the physics department handling wise but really shines translating the basic Newton Laws into a visual feast.

👍

Here's something than anyone using a G25 wheel- other wheels may work but may not be as effective (since I'm quite sure that this game was built around this and the G27 wheels). Make sure you crank the FFB to 10 and the rest of the setting at default. Using either the Maserati MC12 or the reward Aston Martin DBR9, take it for a spin around Ebisu South (the shorter version). I'm pretty sure that no other console racers- Forza 3 and perhaps GT5- will even come close to replicating this. The amount of torque and the grip from these two cars and trying to maneuver them around this tight and twisty track, I find the whole sensation to be quite sublime.

 

[Obli]

I'm not sure if this video has been posted. The way the car just sticks considering how rough the driver is on the inputs is pretty unrealistic. I think the car should have been off the track many times. It seems very arcade to me.

Good engine sounds though!

 

[breakpoint]

Sorry if this has been asked in this thread ( i'm not going through every page and reading). I know everyone on this forum knows sims well, and like wise for arcade type game play. Where does Shift rest? Sim, arcade or in the middle? I've seen allot of glitches and bugs on youtube from the game and it just looks like they rushed it out too soon. My 360 is down at the moment but i should have it fixed at the end of the month and really don't want to waste money on Shift if its not worth it, pass,rent or buy?

 

[orimarc]

The way the car just sticks considering how rough the driver is on the inputs is pretty unrealistic. It seems very arcade to me.

Well...he's using all aids. See those little flashing orange icons on the lower right? Those are the Traction Control, ABS, and Stability Control aid indicators.

 

[Tetradic]

I totally agree with you agreeing with me!

I love all the Porsches - they sound beautiful, but when you start pushing them harder they don't spin out even if you mash the throttle with a "massive slip angle". I'm getting beaten by the AI because I can't bring myself to drive in the way the game allows you to.

However, I just did a 2 lap race around the Ring in a stock S2000. It was a great race - avoided all contact & drove "realistically" just managing to sneak past the lead car for the win at the end of the last lap. The S2000, while perhaps not totally realistic in the way it oversteers, does require a very delicate foot on the throttle in order to keep the car balanced. It actually reminded me quite a bit of Enthusia - perhaps a bit less realistic in the balance between oversteer & understeer, but with Shift's far superior visuals, sound, FFB, & much better AI.

This makes me think that, while there are some very sexy cars in Shift, the cars providing the more worthwhile driving experience are the (stock) Tier 1 & 2 cars. That's where you can get the most out of Shift's physics.

Hmmm... just bought the Mazda Mx5 & ran the same race. Completely different from the S2000 (even though you might think they would have something in common). It was possible to apply full throttle through many of the corners. Maybe there's just something different about the way the S2000 was modeled? (I like the 135I more interesting too, because it's a bit trickier to handle also.)

I gotta agree with you here. I'm agreeing to you agreeing...ha!

The Tier 1 & 2 cars feel wonderful, as do most stock cars in the game. I've given up upgrading any of the cars, beyond the weight reduction and interior upgrade (things I'd do the same car in real life as a track toy). The stock 911 GT3 RS is a wonderful drive but when you upgrade it with the Stage III stuff, to the 9.98 spec, it becomes a bit silly. Even the higher Tier/race cars are OK to drive stock, but the magic happens in the S2000, MX-5, Exige, etc... great fun and compelling to drive repeatedly.

Having driven a s2000 and mx-5 in real life I can say they are true to form in Shift. The s2000 is easy to break the rear-end loose (even in casual driving) and in high speed corners (not tracks, but twisty bits on public roads) I never had confidence to lay into it (though I bet if I had it on a track and I grew a set I could, that is the joy of the s2000) but the MX-5 really sticks to the road. It's the power levels, chassis design (a s2000 is MUCH stiffer) and the power band. But given I've spent those most time in those cars in real life, I can say they both feel like I'd expect them too in Shift (within the context of the physics engine).

BUt the stock cars are all fun drives. I also agree that tuning seems like an after thought and the way the game forces you to drive in career mode is pointless and not fun. Thank god "quickrace" is in the game.

 

[rexc]

My feeling is that with the higher tiered fully tuned cars Shift has to a degree catered to the traditional NFS fanbase who just want to jump into the highest powered cars, pimp them out to the max and go racing with a controller, and they are therefore a lot easier and more forgiving to drive than they should be.

However down amongst the tier 1 and 2 cars are the real gems that, to me anyway, feel very accurate and immersive and give a definate 'sim' experience.

Also has anyone noticed that some tracks feel more 'sim' than others, even when you are in the same car ? Nordschleife and both Ebisus are sublime in the feedback you get from the track, while Spa for example just never feels as immersive for me.

 

[Biggles]

I'm not that convinced by Spa in Shift. I've driven it many, many times in FC, where, in spite of the fact that it's not very accurate, it is a superb track to race on. In Shift, it just doesn't feel right.

What I notice is that the hardest tracks to drive in Shift are the ones with severe hairpins following a high-speed straight - like Road America - where Shift's very tricky braking creates a real challenge. The Nordschliefe is actually quite forgiving, because nearly all the corners are "mid-speed" requiring only mild braking.

 

[rexc]

The last time I drove Spa a lot was in TOCA2, which was very good for a PS2 track.

I definitely like Road America a lot in Shift for really giving the high performance cars a blast. Again, it’s a track that gives you a lot of feedback especially on those tighter corners. Definitely a case of braking early, then slight power and precise steering thru the apex and beyond.

Unfortunately that doesn’t always seem to apply to the AI cars though.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Maybe I'm just too tuned to the style of racing in Live for Speed and GTR, but I dont find SHIFT "easy" by any measure. Easy to save a slide, yeah, easy to start a slide, yeah, easy to carry speed through a corner whilst following a good line in a Tier 4 or works car, not so easy.

I find myself screwing up and restarting races in SHIFT more than I ever do in GTR (can't really say LFS, because I only play that online).

 

[DGiant2000]

Maybe I'm just too tuned to the style of racing in Live for Speed and GTR, but I dont find SHIFT "easy" by any measure. Easy to save a slide, yeah, easy to start a slide, yeah, easy to carry speed through a corner whilst following a good line in a Tier 4 or works car, not so easy.

I find myself screwing up and restarting races in SHIFT more than I ever do in GTR (can't really say LFS, because I only play that online).

Wow, try prologue on pro physics with a powerful RWD car then, that way you'll know the meaning of sliding and spinning!

 

[Obli]

Well...he's using all aids. See those little flashing orange icons on the lower right? Those are the Traction Control, ABS, and Stability Control aid indicators.

OK, but that shouldn't enable the car to appear to defy the laws of physics.

 

[evilfoxhound]

I only just realised today that you can't roll your car.

It's strange because the Ai cars roll easily, yet your car is planted to the ground.

Not really a complaint, but I just find it odd.

 

[Stotty]

Anyone complaining that the higher end cars are easy to drive should go try a few laps of the 'Ring in a Zonda F or Carrera GT from the 'loaner' cars... ie; without any tuning. See if you can just jump on and off the gas in those and still stay on the track