This online only requirement…

  • Thread starter Live25
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Live25

Live25

1,110
United States
Portland, OR
Live25
So for the second time this week, my Internet intermittently dropped as I finished a race at LeMans. The game automatically kicks me to the World Map with no credits and a complete waste of 30 to 35 minutes of my time. It’s fine if you want me to be online for whatever stupid reason PD has, but please don’t screw me out of my money.
 
Samus
Well, it's both. His problem that his connection failed, the games fault that it kicked him out of a single player event because of it. It goes without saying that you'll be kicked out of an online race if your connection drops, but losing out on a single player event because of it rather sucks.
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Yeah. Happened to me on a Cafe Menu Book. Won the event but was dropped out before I got my reward car. Cafe book completed, with end video, but also showed a missing car when looking at the archived book. No new book to start after. Very frustrating. Eventually just purchased the missing car and voila, Lucas is back with a new book.
 
mwoodski
Sounds like a problem on your end tbh, not the games fault.
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Sure, but why am I losing out on $800K for a incredibly brief drop in my connection. Something tells me were the shoe on the other foot this wouldn't be the song you're singing.

Edit: For the record, my connection is typically rock-solid, but for the last couple weeks has been a bit wonky. I have done everything I know to rectify the problem with varying degrees of success. Contacting my ISP is not a solution because I refuse to use their cheap-ass remanufactured router that they want to charge me $10/month for and if I don't, they pretty much refuse me tech support (standard industry practice I might add). I use my own router specifically to avoid these issues. So who is really to blame is up for debate.
 
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The online requirement (in my opinion) isn't an issue.
However, it sounds like PD need to improve on it to stop these types of situations.

Ultimately they need to have a small window of opportunity for people to reconnect - maybe within a minute or 2 from the drop.
 
sh33p
The online requirement (in my opinion) isn't an issue.
However, it sounds like PD need to improve on it to stop these types of situations.

Ultimately they need to have a small window of opportunity for people to reconnect - maybe within a minute or 2 from the drop.
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The race ended (I was so far ahead I was just sitting at the finish line waiting on the timer to avoid the 7th lap), I crossed and won. The results screen was up so briefly I couldn't even see my final time and I was back on the WM with no connection. I'm sure it's an anti-cheat, but that's the worst anti-cheat I've ever seen in gaming.

Who cheats anyways, what's the satisfaction? I didn't even like the Tokyo Tomahawk for that reason. It's such an empty feeling when you win like that.
 
sh33p
The online requirement (in my opinion) isn't an issue.
However, it sounds like PD need to improve on it to stop these types of situations.

Ultimately they need to have a small window of opportunity for people to reconnect - maybe within a minute or 2 from the drop.
Click to expand...
It's absolutely an issue for reasons just like this. We PC players went through this debacle like 10yrs ago with SimCity. Eventually they patched it to work offline. Point being, it pretty much never benefits the user to have the game always online for singleplayer content.

Also, it's worth noting, all these people playing older GT games can only do so because the game allows offline play. In 10yrs will we still be able to play GT7? They'll either need to patch it to work offline or the game will literally die if the servers ever go offline.
 
s0cks
It's absolutely an issue for reasons just like this. We PC players went through this debacle like 10yrs ago with SimCity. Eventually they patched it to work offline. Point being, it pretty much never benefits the user to have the game always online for singleplayer content.

Also, it's worth noting, all these people playing older GT games can only do so because the game allows offline play. In 10yrs will we still be able to play GT7? They'll either need to patch it to work offline or the game will literally die if the servers ever go offline.
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It seems likely that there will be a "final update" to GT Sport once they have GT7 sorted that lets you migrate your saves to offline and then can continue to play indefinitely but we're yet to see if this will happen.

Anti-cheating is fine, I prefer that.

There any many Online only games that exist that are extremely popular and I don't see people regularly complain about them;
EG: Destiny and Fortnite - different genre's I know but still a valid point.

PD Just need to improve on the current system to make it a bit more seamless (I have no faith that they will do this but still)

IE: Have a reconnect option for small outages

Remove the Music rally option from the startup menu and create an "arcade" option there instead (like previous GT's) that has a far superior amount of offline content with a selection of cars / tracks / events / custom races that have no affect on your career progress...

Ensure people that they wont lose their progress by stating that they will release a final update that moves the entire game to offline at the end of its cycle.
 
sh33p
There any many Online only games that exist that are extremely popular and I don't see people regularly complain about them;
EG: Destiny and Fortnite - different genre's I know but still a valid point.
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They're predominantly online co-op/pvp focused games where it makes sense for them to always require an online connection. The online connection facilitates a core functionality.

It doesn't make sense for GT7 outside of Sport Mode and lobbies.
 
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sh33p
It seems likely that there will be a "final update" to GT Sport once they have GT7 sorted that lets you migrate your saves to offline and then can continue to play indefinitely but we're yet to see if this will happen.

Anti-cheating is fine, I prefer that.

There any many Online only games that exist that are extremely popular and I don't see people regularly complain about them;
EG: Destiny and Fortnite - different genre's I know but still a valid point.

PD Just need to improve on the current system to make it a bit more seamless (I have no faith that they will do this but still)

IE: Have a reconnect option for small outages

Ensure people that they wont lose their progress by stating that they will release a final update that moves the entire game to offline at the end of its cycle.
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In fact, wouldn't your account and console get banned anyway for any methods of illegal cheating, save editing and modifications to the console?

Because take for example, if you're running a jailbroken PS4, you know very well that you can't connect to PSN, otherwise you'll risk letting that happen. Just one connection on a modded console and it's gone. Even on Xbox it's the same (my Xbox 360 was jailbroken once, and therefore, the console was banned from connecting to Xbox Live, luckily, I didn't make an account on it).

And you can only perform and run illegal cheats, mods and save editing on a modded console, not a retail one.

This is why Kaz pushing for the always-online requirement for most of the game, as well as saving progress, is already pointless, because PSN as a whole, as well as even Xbox Live and whatever equivalent Nintendo has, universally prohibits cheating and illegal modding, and yet there are still single player games out there without the requirement to be online. Then there's GT7 with this strange requirement of doing so, despite it being a mostly single player game.

Some even say they pushed for this simply because of FIA involvement (Sport mode and esports features).
sh33p
Remove the Music rally option from the startup menu and create an "arcade" option there instead (like previous GT's) that has a far superior amount of offline content with a selection of cars / tracks / events / custom races that have no affect on your career progress...
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Another reason why they should take a page from Forza's Free Play where all the cars in the game are available as rental cars in every Arcade game mode (Arcade Race, Time Trial, Drift Trial, Custom Race and 2-Player Battle), besides being able to drive cars from our garage.

As for tracks, it's possible to race on every track in the game, for as long as you unlock them beforehand.
 
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sh33p
Remove the Music rally option from the startup menu and create an "arcade" option there instead (like previous GT's) that has a far superior amount of offline content with a selection of cars / tracks / events / custom races that have no affect on your career progress...
Click to expand...
I will admit that the Music Rally mode should only be in the Missions menu since it uses the same Gold/Silver/Bronze system/animations as that mode anyway and, yeah, the Arcade mode should be on the title screen, instead.

While we're at it, make the title screen dynamic like GT Sport's. That's an aspect of the presentation that I actually miss.
 
Live25
Sure, but why am I losing out on $800K for a incredibly brief drop in my connection. Something tells me were the shoe on the other foot this wouldn't be the song you're singing.

Edit: For the record, my connection is typically rock-solid, but for the last couple weeks has been a bit wonky. I have done everything I know to rectify the problem with varying degrees of success. Contacting my ISP is not a solution because I refuse to use their cheap-ass remanufactured router that they want to charge me $10/month for and if I don't, they pretty much refuse me tech support (standard industry practice I might add). I use my own router specifically to avoid these issues. So who is really to blame is up for debate.
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I admit to the 100% online compulsion I have a very divided opinion... on the one hand I find it absurd that something like this is necessary for this game. On the other hand, I'm also very much in favor of the fact that there shouldn't/shouldn't be any way of cheating in a game in any way...whether it's through scripts/bots/cheats or some crappy rubber band, play for it me no matter. As long as even a single "success" can be achieved or made easier by using these methods, I do NOT think it's right that it is used. I know that I'm rather alone with this opinion and that some would like to explain to me with physical methods what they think of me just because of these thoughts... but that's the way I see it.

What shocked me much more is to read how the providers operate in your country and that it is common practice as you write. I can't even begin to imagine something like that, because I last used hardware from my ISP in 2000-2001 to get internet access.
Yes, from time to time there were discussions with an ISP, but I was usually able to solve that quite well and I had my last real failure or massive disruption 5 years ago, but there was a problem that only occurred in heavy rain and right in the distribution box of the ISP was justified.

Long story short.... Yes, it's really stupid that you can't use about 90% of the game if the network is disrupted or the servers are down, but that seems to be the price for a reasonably manipulation-free game.

Everyone can judge for themselves what is better now.... For me it is somehow similar to the discussion about total surveillance
of all people through known institutions. It has advantages that are undeniable... but also some huge disadvantages... what you want to sacrifice for what... well everyone is entitled to their own opinion about that.
 
xMAXIx79
I admit to the 100% online compulsion I have a very divided opinion... on the one hand I find it absurd that something like this is necessary for this game. On the other hand, I'm also very much in favor of the fact that there shouldn't/shouldn't be any way of cheating in a game in any way...whether it's through scripts/bots/cheats or some crappy rubber band, play for it me no matter. As long as even a single "success" can be achieved or made easier by using these methods, I do NOT think it's right that it is used. I know that I'm rather alone with this opinion and that some would like to explain to me with physical methods what they think of me just because of these thoughts... but that's the way I see it.
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I get that stopping cheating in multiplayer is paramount to a good experience, but assuming the singleplayer has no bearing on multiplayer, I don't see why cheating needs to be stopped in singleplayer mode? It doesn't affect your experience if someone else cheats on their game. I guess the only thing is it might allow someone to illegitimately gain a PS Trophy, but that seems like a minor thing. If cheating (like scripts used in GT7) enhances the enjoyment of the game for the person playing, then it's arguably almost a good thing, no?
 
s0cks
I get that stopping cheating in multiplayer is paramount to a good experience, but assuming the singleplayer has no bearing on multiplayer, I don't see why cheating needs to be stopped in singleplayer mode? It doesn't affect your experience if someone else cheats on their game. I guess the only thing is it might allow someone to illegitimately gain a PS Trophy, but that seems like a minor thing. If cheating (like scripts used in GT7) enhances the enjoyment of the game for the person playing, then it's arguably almost a good thing, no?
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Yes and no.. the answer to that is difficult..
I compare it to a casino.

You play BlackJack... and you're quite good.. have a lot of luck and invest a lot of time.. play according to a legal system and with a bit of luck the bank won't win, but you bottom line.. you can be satisfied, no money lost.. had a great time and can finally buy your wife that new kitchen machine she has wanted for a long time. (Oh, and by the way, there is still money left for a used Porsche)
At the same time I was sitting next to you at the table.. I'm not as brave as you, nor do I rely on my luck... I have someone who can count the cards for me and tell me when to play and how. .. At the end of the day we both played the same game... And you didn't win any less through my actions... but now I'm not only buying my wife the food processor she wanted, but the right dream kitchen in the dream house on the dream island plus... oh yes, for 2 new Porsches and a boat, the profit was enough for me.
Is that "correct"? hmmm difficult.. of course you can be satisfied with what you have.. but... well...
 
xMAXIx79
Yes and no.. the answer to that is difficult..
I compare it to a casino.

You play BlackJack... and you're quite good.. have a lot of luck and invest a lot of time.. play according to a legal system and with a bit of luck the bank won't win, but you bottom line.. you can be satisfied, no money lost.. had a great time and can finally buy your wife that new kitchen machine she has wanted for a long time. (Oh, and by the way, there is still money left for a used Porsche)
At the same time I was sitting next to you at the table.. I'm not as brave as you, nor do I rely on my luck... I have someone who can count the cards for me and tell me when to play and how. .. At the end of the day we both played the same game... And you didn't win any less through my actions... but now I'm not only buying my wife the food processor she wanted, but the right dream kitchen in the dream house on the dream island plus... oh yes, for 2 new Porsches and a boat, the profit was enough for me.
Is that "correct"? hmmm difficult.. of course you can be satisfied with what you have.. but... well...
Click to expand...

Where are you even going with this?

Besides, being always online has not stopped any of the "exploits" or "cheats" in GT7. Actually, being online helped to facilitate the remote play AFK grinding.
 
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xMAXIx79
Yes and no.. the answer to that is difficult..
I compare it to a casino.

You play BlackJack... and you're quite good.. have a lot of luck and invest a lot of time.. play according to a legal system and with a bit of luck the bank won't win, but you bottom line.. you can be satisfied, no money lost.. had a great time and can finally buy your wife that new kitchen machine she has wanted for a long time. (Oh, and by the way, there is still money left for a used Porsche)
At the same time I was sitting next to you at the table.. I'm not as brave as you, nor do I rely on my luck... I have someone who can count the cards for me and tell me when to play and how. .. At the end of the day we both played the same game... And you didn't win any less through my actions... but now I'm not only buying my wife the food processor she wanted, but the right dream kitchen in the dream house on the dream island plus... oh yes, for 2 new Porsches and a boat, the profit was enough for me.
Is that "correct"? hmmm difficult.. of course you can be satisfied with what you have.. but... well...
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I'm not even sure how to respond to this. It doesn't seem like an apt analogy. Are you saying it's unfair that other people you don't know are potentially getting more out of the game because they use scripts that you don't know how to use? Jealousy basically?
 
To my understanding, the online requirement is an anti-cheat mechanism. Anything relates to time record, reward, achievement .... are not functioning when offline.

I won a gold cup in Music Rally and happily told my friends, later found they don't see my milage. Then I know offline is a different game.
 
s0cks
I'm not even sure how to respond to this. It doesn't seem like an apt analogy. Are you saying it's unfair that other people you don't know are potentially getting more out of the game because they use scripts that you don't know how to use? Jealousy basically?
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No, it's not jealousy... I know that people like to understand it that way...

I simply hate any form of "cheating/cheating/ or using an advantage that is/wasn't intended" For me it's just dishonest... everyone is welcome to do what they want, but then I have this same right.. to think about what i want.
And yes, I was one of those guys at school who wouldn't let others copy them... and when I ran the risk of failing an exam myself... then I just had to practice/learn more.
 
xMAXIx79
No, it's not jealousy... I know that people like to understand it that way...

I simply hate any form of "cheating/cheating/ or using an advantage that is/wasn't intended" For me it's just dishonest... everyone is welcome to do what they want, but then I have this same right.. to think about what i want.
And yes, I was one of those guys at school who wouldn't let others copy them... and when I ran the risk of failing an exam myself... then I just had to practice/learn more.
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Cheating at a video game in single player is different to helping classmates cheat or counting cards at a casino.

I understand your position in wanting to play fair and as intended, I just don't get why you feel the need to force it on others? No one is forcing you to cheat. I don't see why you should want to force others to not cheat. It doesn't affect you in any way so I don't get why it bothers you, especially given that to help prevent it we have to deal with crap like always online.

Tbh, cheats made for some memorable moments in gaming as I was growing up.

Cheating in competitive multiplayer is whole different story though.

ohho
To my understanding, the online requirement is an anti-cheat mechanism. Anything relates to time record, reward, achievement .... are not functioning when offline.

I won a gold cup in Music Rally and happily told my friends, later found they don't see my milage. Then I know offline is a different game.
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They don't even have track leaderboards outside of friends though. Time trials and qualifying are all under Sport mode.
 
s0cks
Cheating at a video game in single player is different to helping classmates cheat or counting cards at a casino.

I understand your position in wanting to play fair and as intended, I just don't get why you feel the need to force it on others? No one is forcing you to cheat. I don't see why you should want to force others to not cheat. It doesn't affect you in any way so I don't get why it bothers you, especially given that to help prevent it we have to deal with crap like always online.

Tbh, cheats made for some memorable moments in gaming as I was growing up.

Cheating in competitive multiplayer is whole different story though.
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The conceit that people will immediately proceed to cheat if a game is available offline is flawed to begin with when there's thousands upon thousands of offline singleplayer only games out there that aren't being rampantly cheated or hacked.
 
Allow me to point out a few things. If PD KNOWS there is an active cheat/exploit, they are going to take action. That action is going to be somewhat detrimental to the entire community. Therefore, abusing the system, whether in SP or MP, does harm everyone. Furthermore, when that player takes their ill-gotten vehicle into MP and beats other players, I would call that a distinct advantage gained.

In a casino, if you cheat, the casino hires more security, installs more cameras, maybe fires the dealer for negligence, holiday bonuses might shrink for every employee in that casino, something the rest of us have to pay for, both literally and figuratively.

If you steal from a retail shop, they must raise item prices to compensate for their loss. Everyone pays the bill for one person's dishonesty.

There are no victimless crimes, someone always pays the piper.
 
Live25
So for the second time this week, my Internet intermittently dropped as I finished a race at LeMans. The game automatically kicks me to the World Map with no credits and a complete waste of 30 to 35 minutes of my time. It’s fine if you want me to be online for whatever stupid reason PD has, but please don’t screw me out of my money.
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I just had this exact same scenario play out for me today. Doing the Le Mans WTC700 with a Supra, and my Internet goes out. No progress saved, no money earned, complete waste of half an hour of racing.
 
Had this happen a couple days ago. normally my connection is rock solid, but had a little blip near the end of an hour-long race, and poof. No reward. One hour completely wasted.

Extremely frustrating, to the point it makes me leery to load up the game, and very loud in my recommendations against anyone else buying it.

Online-only for single-player modes NEVER EVER benefits the player.

Years from now we may still be playing GT 1, 2, 3, 4, etc, but 7 will be discarded as a failure and utterly forgotten due to its shortsighted design decisions. If you think they'll eventually patch it to make it playable offline, you havent been paying attention. They don't care enough. There's nothing in it for them.
 
Always-online is a real problem when you look at it from a broader world-view.

I don't know where most members on this site are from, but if you realise that there are parts of the world where one's internet connection might only work 50% of the time, then it's easy to see the big finger issued by PD to its paying customers. There's presumably parts of the world where GT7 is literally unplayable.

For multiplayer, I totally get it. But to hinder a personal, private experience meant to be enjoyed exactly how you wish? Not cool.
 

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