Thoughts on this incident

[cleanLX]

Where exactly does he go off line? He's in exactly the same place to me just before contact and he's in the same place as me as he hits the end of the banking although I'm angled better (First 2 pictures). The widest he gets compared to me is as we both get in line with the yellow where the front right of his car is half way between the 2nd and 3rd tyre mark and my front right is a little left of the 2nd mark so at most he's half a cars width wider (3rd and 4th picture). Yes I know we're not exactly in the same car but my line doesn't really change much from car to car for this corner.

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Where he is headed straight towards the start of the yellow and not turning in... you can start to see it in the first 2 photos you posted, the orange car is definitely on a path to the apex, black car, is headed for the start of the yellow paint. When I first watched the video assumed was headed off track...
I don't know how to do those screen captures... care to share?
At any rate, you are a talented enough driver in the game that you must also be aware and be able to see the same bobble as many others here have seen... at one point he is no longer on a clear path, guessing he locked up the fronts... either way, from 12.9 to 13.5 in the video P1 does something very odd that certainly looks anything but planned, again, I thought he was headed off track, and, while his car may be in a close area to the "line" you take, he is not turned in, rather he is headed off track... he then recovers, changes his line and dives down.
If you cannot see it, don't want to see it, or are refusing to see it just so you can continue your argument, I cannot help you.

Look, I hate dive bombers and overly aggressive drivers/moves as much as anyone, but when I make a mistake, I certainly don't expect people to hold up and allow me back onto racing line.
I think anyone that does is setting themselves up for a replay of @Sean Renon 's video.

 

[cleanLX]

ok, one more kick at the can, and I'll stop... promise...
If this is the proper line, with a solid turn in point...

and this is the apex...

what the heck is P1 doing here?

My interpretation is... diving down, blocking, causing the contact... simply being a jackolantern.

 

[UGA95]

that's all well and fine had he taken a natural/predictable "line" to that point rather than a diving in after having been offline and off pace.
.

Where he is headed straight towards the start of the yellow and not turning in... you can start to see it in the first 2 photos you posted, the orange car is definitely on a path to the apex, black car, is headed for the start of the yellow paint. When I first watched the video assumed was headed off track...
I don't know how to do those screen captures... care to share?
At any rate, you are a talented enough driver in the game that you must also be aware and be able to see the same bobble as many others here have seen... at one point he is no longer on a clear path, guessing he locked up the fronts... either way, from 12.9 to 13.5 in the video P1 does something very odd that certainly looks anything but planned, again, I thought he was headed off track, and, while his car may be in a close area to the "line" you take, he is not turned in, rather he is headed off track... he then recovers, changes his line and dives down.
If you cannot see it, don't want to see it, or are refusing to see it just so you can continue your argument, I cannot help you.

Look, I hate dive bombers and overly aggressive drivers/moves as much as anyone, but when I make a mistake, I certainly don't expect people to hold up and allow me back onto racing line.
I think anyone that does is setting themselves up for a replay of @Sean Renon 's video.

The black car is at most half a car length further to the right than the orange car is while headed to the apex after transitioning down from the banking:

And shortly there after their positions are almost identical:

Bobble or not, he wasn't off line. To say he didn't take a natural or predictable line into that corner is just false. The only mistake P1 made was applying brakes a little too early.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@cleanLX Doesn't appear that you've actually been reading what I've been saying as I've already addressed both of those points, explaining that they are perfectly normal and expected of someone on the correct racing line.

Where he is headed straight towards the start of the yellow and not turning in... you can start to see it in the first 2 photos you posted, the orange car is definitely on a path to the apex, black car, is headed for the start of the yellow paint. When I first watched the video assumed was headed off track...
I don't know how to do those screen captures... care to share?
At any rate, you are a talented enough driver in the game that you must also be aware and be able to see the same bobble as many others here have seen... at one point he is no longer on a clear path, guessing he locked up the fronts... either way, from 12.9 to 13.5 in the video P1 does something very odd that certainly looks anything but planned, again, I thought he was headed off track, and, while his car may be in a close area to the "line" you take, he is not turned in, rather he is headed off track... he then recovers, changes his line and dives down.
If you cannot see it, don't want to see it, or are refusing to see it just so you can continue your argument, I cannot help you.

Look, I hate dive bombers and overly aggressive drivers/moves as much as anyone, but when I make a mistake, I certainly don't expect people to hold up and allow me back onto racing line.
I think anyone that does is setting themselves up for a replay of @Sean Renon 's video.

I'm not ignoring the bobble, I'm telling you it's normal thing to happen and not a mistake, it happens every single lap you do when taking racing line at that corner. What do you expect the car to do when coming off a banking at about 150mph? You're effectively going 150mph into a ramp whilst turning and you're expecting the turn in to be consistent?

ok, one more kick at the can, and I'll stop... promise...
If this is the proper line, with a solid turn in point...
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and this is the apex...
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what the heck is P1 doing here?
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My interpretation is... diving down, blocking, causing the contact... simply being a jackolantern.

This post in particular suggests to me that you haven't been properly reading what I've been saying, because as @UGA95 has already shown, I showed that just before the contact P1 was still one the exact same line as I was with the two pictures he reposted. I also said in the same post that you shouldn't be deceived by the very late apex as the gap on the inside closes quite a distance before it. Here's the post if you want to read it.

My mistake then, although you not attempting to overtake does explain why it wasn't a very thoughtful overtake.



Don't be deceived by the late apex, the gap to the inside gets quite small well before it, here's how close I am before the kerb.

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And just before the point of contact I am in exactly the same place on track as he is (see the 3 tyre marks just to the right of the car, the front right of both of our cars are inline with the furthest left mark). I lined up the point of the corner with the umbrellas and white bit of barrier in the far right of shot.

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Bare in mind that I was under the impression it was an attempted overtake, I don't think you broke too late or that you were out of control, just that you shouldn't have put your car there, and as it was unintentional it's a pretty minor mistake, had you been slightly slower or even him slightly faster there would have been no issue.



See above, the gap closes a lot earlier than you would expect it to.



The problem is the banking, it unsettles the car and makes the turn in a bit unpredictable and not very smooth even with smooth inputs. It's just something you have to learn to take into account when on the inside of that corner, just give yourself an extra margin for wiggle room and be a bit cautious.

Also again, don't take what I've said too harshly as I was under the impression it was an intentional attempt at an overtake, as it wasn't it's a simple case of being a little bit more cautious.

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

For what it’s worth, IMO, the screenshots only tell half the story. And I’m only going to come back to the conclusion that Sven made in the first comment, both should be penalised (or neither).

P1 does make a mistake but I don’t think he’s turned into you on purpose, the car twitches and you can see he tries to correct it but inevitably hits you. I think had you stuck to your guns on your line whereas you hesitated before the apex you could have powered through and avoided being turned.

I had the same thing at Maggiore yesterday (although I came off far worse) after the chicanes I’ve got a touch more speed than P1 on the first lap and the last thing I want is to blow my race before it’s even begun. I drive towards the inside (anticipating an early brake, just incase), my intentions are to make the inside line and hold it coming out of the turn rather than going back out wide and pushing him off.

He brakes early, realises he’s made the mistake and ploughs towards the apex taking me out. He got a penalty, I didn’t. In hindsight you may think I could have done that differently, but realistically it could have played out in two ways. Had I stayed in the racing line directly behind P1 I would have slammed right into the back of him, even if I braked marginally early to avoid him. He braked VERY early. The other way would be to assume he may brake early and take the line I did, then continue braking to avoid contact I would have been slammed into by P3.

Going back to OP on blue moon, the outcomes of P1 making that error are very similar.

 

[cleanLX]

...

Lots of good points, and well represented.
I spent a good deal of this evening watching races and fast laps on youtube from this circuit... (because this has been bothering me).
in the end, I can concede my soap box has been wobbled... and, I see your point... or, racing line.
I'll admit I've only ran this track a handful of times, and never "raced" on it...
Hindsight... I should have kept out of the "debate" based solely on my lack of experience here...
Having said all that, while I'm reluctant to allow P1 to ignore P2's position, I am humbly willing to admit that P2 was optimistic...
/hand is extended for a shake.