Thread about my Holden Ute- Finally Lowered!

[nd 4 holden spd]

I'm going to make a second suggestion which isn't engine related but would still make you a hell of a lot quicker. Actually two

Firstly, is your car pretty much as it is in your avatar? If so I'd be suggesting some slightly larger diameter wheels because nothing will improve you on track like more grip...

...apart from, spending an hour with an instructor at whatever circuit you're planning to drive around, who'll help you extract the most out of what you've got. And you won't have to spend a penny on the car itself

As I climb back inside the box I've been thinking outside of, surely the most simple things (and cheapest)if you did fettle the motor have to be breathing? Cold air feed, filter, manifold and exhaust system? At the very least you'll sound quicker...

Oh and another thing - get to a rolling road and have someone set up your engine perfectly. You'll probably find it's running below manufacturer's quoted output anyway, so if you get them to adjust the fuelling etc you'll probably gain a bit of power that way.

I would like lighter wheels, but seeing the stockers look pretty tough it's one of the last things on my list. I wouldn't mind some lightweight 18s. Maybe in a decade if I'm not living in a gutter by then.
Driving instruction would be awesome! I have a fair understanding of racing lines from playing GT games, but I'm sure some driver instruction could really work wonders for me.
I will put in a power chip using the same tune my brother has. One advantage of having your brother do everything before you, I'll know what works well, and his works very well.

Good call on the driving. But.

Getting better tyres would probably help more than bigger wheels. Unless you shell out the dinero for lightweight wheels, bigger=heavier=more unsprung weight=more time and effort needed from the car to spin them.

Also no 10+ year old standard car is going to be putting out the manufacturer quoted power output, unless it's just had a rebuild etc. And I'm not sure if you can adjust fuelling and the like with the standard Holden engine management. So he'd have to splurge on a new management system too.

Which might not be a bad thing actually. I've been looking at things to do to my car (when I have some money again), and it's not that uncommon to see the Evo's with the Intake/Exhaust/Extractors running ~220kw at the wheels with Link's or Power FC's. Which is pretty sweet.

Actually, power loss is only a problem if the car hasn't been taken good care of. I made a thread on that not long ago. I'm quite sure mine has been treated well. You can alter the LS1's standard ECU but any V6 or older V8 needs a new tunable computer.
I already have a CAI, Filter (K&N), and I'm saving for the exhaust (extractors, CAT, Exhaust included). Apprentice wages suck pretty badly.

And, at least in america it's illegal

Food for thought. You said you could have bought 4 VL commodores for the price og your ute, why not just buy a VL and put your money into making that a track car? I bet your ute could even pull the trailer with it on it. That'd scream "I love my Holdens!"

I would rather get a VN, around $1k dearer. There's no way that I could afford a track car at my age on my wages though. For now I can focus on having one of the best V6 Utes out there in terms of performance.

 

[mustangGT90210]

I would like lighter wheels, but seeing the stockers look pretty tough it's one of the last things on my list. I wouldn't mind some lightweight 18s. Maybe in a decade if I'm not living in a gutter by then.
Driving instruction would be awesome! I have a fair understanding of racing lines from playing GT games, but I'm sure some driver instruction could really work wonders for me.
I will put in a power chip using the same tune my brother has. One advantage of having your brother do everything before you, I'll know what works well, and his works very well.



Actually, power loss is only a problem if the car hasn't been taken good care of. I made a thread on that not long ago. I'm quite sure mine has been treated well. You can alter the LS1's standard ECU but any V6 or older V8 needs a new tunable computer.
I already have a CAI, Filter (K&N), and I'm saving for the exhaust (extractors, CAT, Exhaust included). Apprentice wages suck pretty badly.



I would rather get a VN, around $1k dearer. There's no way that I could afford a track car at my age on my wages though. For now I can focus on having one of the best V6 Utes out there in terms of performance.

Why not search for some old Holden with an engine transplant and go drag race it? You could be on the Aussie version of Pinks (if there is one...)

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Why not search for some old Holden with an engine transplant and go drag race it? You could be on the Aussie version of Pinks (if there is one...)

Because everyone drag races? Because that's been done a thousand times? Because to do any good in drag racing you need to have a thick wallet? Because I want to make my Ute handle better than that guy's, then if and when I could ever afford a track car it would be for comeplete circuit use to see how good I can make a Commodore/Holden go? Because I don't mean to be rude, I'm just running off my reasons.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Because everyone drag races? Because that's been done a thousand times? Because to do any good in drag racing you need to have a thick wallet? Because I want to make my Ute handle better than that guy's, then if and when I could ever afford a track car it would be for comeplete circuit use to see how good I can make a Commodore/Holden go? Because I don't mean to be rude, I'm just running off my reasons.

Ok I'll give you that. You can make that Ute handle, and if nothing else, it should be able to drift thanks to that light truck bed you got on the back

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Ok I'll give you that. You can make that Ute handle, and if nothing else, it should be able to drift thanks to that light truck bed you got on the back

Time to upset some ricer boys I think.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Time to upset some ricer boys I think.

 

[homeforsummer]

Getting better tyres would probably help more than bigger wheels. Unless you shell out the dinero for lightweight wheels, bigger=heavier=more unsprung weight=more time and effort needed from the car to spin them.

Erm... yeah ignore me I said bigger wheels judging by the tiny picture of the ute where the wheels look a bit small, but I am aware that small wheels aren't necessarily a bad thing if the chassis is set up to take advantage and they're running on good tyres. Which is why Mugen and Spoon Civics and the like rarely run on anything bigger than 15-16" and decimate all in the corners.

As for the weight of the rims themselves, it's actually worth looking around other manufacturers with the same stud patterns, as some companies outsource to more well-known wheel manufacturers and their standard road wheels are lighter than many aftermarket companies. Failing that, buying some top-quality lightweight rims second hand would be an option.

Of course, one of the most important things to remember with changing to different wheels it to try and keep the same rolling radius,as that will have the least adverse affect on the performance and handling. If the rims themselves are lightweight then you will see advantages with lower profile tyres (at least on the track where ride quality isn't a concern) because the sidewalls should have less give and you'll get a better feeling for what the car is doing.

@ holden, how much use do you get out of the bed? Further up I see you said it's got coil springs at the rear, suggesting it has strut tops intruding into the bed, which you could maybe attach a brace in between? I'd expect the bed on an ute is the sort of thing that'd flex under load, so again you might tighten the car up a bit reducing that flex?

(For anyone who hasn't noticed, I'm kinda picking ideas out of the air here...but hey, some of them have got to be close to the mark, right?)

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Erm... yeah ignore me I said bigger wheels judging by the tiny picture of the ute where the wheels look a bit small, but I am aware that small wheels aren't necessarily a bad thing if the chassis is set up to take advantage and they're running on good tyres. Which is why Mugen and Spoon Civics and the like rarely run on anything bigger than 15-16" and decimate all in the corners.

As for the weight of the rims themselves, it's actually worth looking around other manufacturers with the same stud patterns, as some companies outsource to more well-known wheel manufacturers and their standard road wheels are lighter than many aftermarket companies. Failing that, buying some top-quality lightweight rims second hand would be an option.

Of course, one of the most important things to remember with changing to different wheels it to try and keep the same rolling radius,as that will have the least adverse affect on the performance and handling. If the rims themselves are lightweight then you will see advantages with lower profile tyres (at least on the track where ride quality isn't a concern) because the sidewalls should have less give and you'll get a better feeling for what the car is doing.

@ holden, how much use do you get out of the bed? Further up I see you said it's got coil springs at the rear, suggesting it has strut tops intruding into the bed, which you could maybe attach a brace in between? I'd expect the bed on an ute is the sort of thing that'd flex under load, so again you might tighten the car up a bit reducing that flex?

(For anyone who hasn't noticed, I'm kinda picking ideas out of the air here...but hey, some of them have got to be close to the mark, right?)

I think around 17-18inch wheels would be the best for a car with my wheel diameter. The Spoons can take smaller because the cars are smaller and have smaller wheels. They might get the same profile with 15" wheels I get with 18" wheels. Keeping the outside diameter the same is law, unless you have the odometer recalibrated I think.

I should take a picture of the bed, althout it's not pretty out there. The previous owner being a tradie scratched her up pretty bad in there. At the moment those ladder racks are attached to the wheel wells which protrude into the bed, and that's all that's in there. Strut towers are beneath somewhere I think, just like in a sedan. (Are there actually strut towers on the rear? )

I appreciate your thought and effort.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not sure of there are strut towers at the rear, I've made this mistake before suggesting someone fit a rear brace to a car with a torsion bar rear suspension... but what I actually mean is that you can still fit a brace between anything that the rear wheel arches intrude into, as it does the same thing, reducing the flex which I'm assuming is quite high in a vehicle with a bed.

I know this is off a new Commodore Ute but a metal bar of about roll cage thickness between those two arches (without the bed liner, obviously) would probably do wonders for chassis stiffness.

Best way to think of it is a cardboard box. Now with all six surfaces on, it has some structural strength. With the back removed (such as the drop down door for the bed) it loses some. If you take the top off, it'll become pretty wobbly. Now obviously this wouldn't be to the same degree on a steel bed, but you get the idea. A strut bar would be like putting the top back on the box.

You're welcome on the thought and effort, putting an ute on track is an interesting concept to someone from the UK where the most popular ute is a 1980s 1.9 diesel VW Golf Caddy...

Go on...be jealous

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Maybe it would help, and it would also probably kill the tray space and add weight. Maybe not the most practical idea.


No need to be jealous, I have a good Ute.

 

[homeforsummer]

I doubt it would add too much weight, but it's your car not mine! That was the reason I asked how much use you got out of your bed, obviously having a big bar across it reduces the practicality somewhat...

 

[mustangGT90210]

I doubt it would add too much weight, but it's your car not mine! That was the reason I asked how much use you got out of your bed, obviously having a big bar across it reduces the practicality somewhat...

Absolutely not, it gives a nice backrest on those days you just chill out in the back of your truck, err...sports car

 

[homeforsummer]

Absolutely not, it gives a nice backrest on those days you just chill out in the back of your truck, err...sports car

And while you're at it, why not go the whole Pimp My Ride and install TV screens in the wheels, so people with rotating heads can watch them as you "cruise" down the street in your new "whip"

 

[mustangGT90210]

And while you're at it, why not go the whole Pimp My Ride and install TV screens in the wheels, so people with rotating heads can watch them as you "cruise" down the street in your new "whip"

I don't know about that...

I always thought the screen in the headlight was the coolest Ya know, for all those people you'll be following because they leave your 300,000 mile Kia engine in the car

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I got a new question. To lower my Ute I need an adjustable Panhard Rod, otherwise the will be off centre. Is this a part that there are performance alternatives for or is it more just a there to hold things together kind of thing?

 

[Joey D]

There are beefier and more performance oriented panhard bars, not knowing Australian vehicles I don't know if they make one for your Ute.

Here is an example out of a Camaro:
http://www.ecklerscamaro.com/produc...ce+-+Suspension+&+Brakes+-+Other-_-721770-_-X

 

[slidesquad#1]

Actually, does the ute have a strut brace in the front? They're pretty cheap, and tighten the car quite a bit, I know it made quite a big difference when I put one on my old Legacy. And seconding the get a brace for the back as well. Well worth the additional kg or two, if that.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

There are beefier and more performance oriented panhard bars, not knowing Australian vehicles I don't know if they make one for your Ute.

Here is an example out of a Camaro:
http://www.ecklerscamaro.com/produc...ce+-+Suspension+&+Brakes+-+Other-_-721770-_-X

So how does a beefier one help? It just says it's stronger and lighter, perhaps implying that apart from weight the only advantage is it won't break as easily or something like that.

Actually, does the ute have a strut brace in the front? They're pretty cheap, and tighten the car quite a bit, I know it made quite a big difference when I put one on my old Legacy. And seconding the get a brace for the back as well. Well worth the additional kg or two, if that.

Yes, I must get that. It is high on my list of things to do.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Well folks, it seems the problems I had with the car randomly cutting in and out (bucking), while driving may have finally been resolved. Turns out I had a water pump leak, which leaked onto the crank sensor, which had a minor hissy fit and may have cut power to the fuel pump for that fraction of a second where the car cut in and out. So it's a new water pump, and hopefully not a new crank sensor (yet at least), and my car should be perfect again. In a couple of weeks I'm also getting my tax cheque, which finally means I might be able to get my Ute lowered.
It has also come about at work that we have a Nolathane rear control arm bush set, which I will buy (for cost price cha ching $$$), and put on my car as well. For now things are going well. After this, I'll talk to my insurer, and then either aim for:
Bucket Seats (absolute necessity, mine are crap)
Filler Panels and Hard Tonneau (better aero, vastly increased looks)
Sports Chip and/or Sports Exhaust (self explainatory)
If insurance says I can't do any of the above, a helmet and driver education (performance style)

I actually haven't even asked if they're happy with the lowering since they changed their structure (under the old structure it was OK).

Edit: I was actually kind of wondering, what does a rear control arm do, and how does having harder bushes for it help performance?

 

[Joey D]

You have to ask your insurance company before you do anything to your vehicle?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You have to ask your insurance company before you do anything to your vehicle?

Yeah, because if too much work is done to my car, they won't insure it any more (too much value or some crap). There is an insurance company that doesn't care, but damn are they expensive.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Edit: I was actually kind of wondering, what does a rear control arm do, and how does having harder bushes for it help performance?

The term is bushing for one...

The 'Ute has what, a coil-sprung live axle?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The term is bushing for one...

The 'Ute has what, a coil-sprung live axle?

I though bush sounded wierd when I typed it.

Yes, it has a coil sprung live rear axle.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The stiffer bushings will just keep torque from being lost to the axle twisting as much really.

Ride will be negatively affected, and you don't have near the power to come close to needing it.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The stiffer bushings will just keep torque from being lost to the axle twisting as much really.

Ride will be negatively affected, and you don't have near the power to come close to needing it.

Handling should be improved though right? I don't care how much I feel the bumps. (Having a light rear end means I feel them anyway, but I don't care, a stiff ride is a part of performance.)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Handling may improve a bit, but...

It's not worth it. Not on a daily driver.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Handling may improve a bit, but...

It's not worth it. Not on a daily driver.

Why isn't it worth it? Every little bit counts, and with a Ute there is a lot to be improved upon.

Edit: I already bought them anyway, we were supposed to put them on a different car, but the owner didn't want them or some crap, and we couldn't return them for credit because of the other company being n00bs, so I bought them and brought them home. (Cost price anyway)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Waiwai... Unless the "other car" was also a Commodore of the same chassis as yours, you're prolly screwed (and even then the 'Utes may have different rear suspension).

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Waiwai... Unless the "other car" was also a Commodore of the same chassis as yours, you're prolly screwed (and even then the 'Utes may have different rear suspension).

We are spare parts interpreters you know, we earn our living by finding out what goes on which cars.

 

[TheCracker]

So how does a beefier one help? It just says it's stronger and lighter, perhaps implying that apart from weight the only advantage is it won't break as easily or something like that.

Unless the standard one or replacement adjustable one are known to be weak i wouldn't bother with any expensive aftermarket panhard rod, unless you've greatly enhanced the power of the engine. I don't think they have any load-bearing qualities so unless you are planing a lot of heavy on-track work a standard one will be more than enough. You could better spend your money on other stuff for your car.