- 2
- Wolfpack_hs
Is the game a sim as the say and uses tire temp?
Has anyone noticed the tires getting better after 1 lap or so?
Steff
Has anyone noticed the tires getting better after 1 lap or so?
Steff
Tire temp?
- Thread starter wolfpack_hs
- 9 comments
- 1,663 views
- 879
- MannyMoenjack1
Yeah, actually I have.
It could be my imagination but when I do 2 laps of the Nordschleife, in the tight, twisty part right after the start, I always seem to have more grip on the second lap. It's happened with several different cars so I don't know what else would explain it other than warmed-up tires
- 23,800
- Philippines
Being a "sim" has nothing to do with tire temps.
Note: Grand Theft Auto models torque steer, fish-tailing, low-traction and high-traction surfaces, LSD action (yes... it does), bottoming-out and tire blow-outs, but it's not a "sim".
- 2
- Wolfpack_hs
Good too see that people here actually answers questions!
I have asked a few at ea forums but no luck there 👎
And Niky you must agree all sim racing games do have tire temps?
I must say slightly mad studios has done very well with this game,
despite a few glitches. 👍
regards steff
I have asked a few at ea forums but no luck there 👎
And Niky you must agree all sim racing games do have tire temps?
I must say slightly mad studios has done very well with this game,
despite a few glitches. 👍
regards steff
- 23,800
- Philippines
See... here's the tricky part...
What, exactly is a sim?
A simulator models and recreates real-world conditions in a virtual environment.
A driving simulator, thus, must recreate real-world conditions in modelling how a car drives down a racetrack.
This is as opposed to an arcade racer, which may simulate real-world conditions, but often changes physics parameters to make racing easier... giving more grip to the player's car, or more power... or giving more power to computer cars to allow them to catch up when they fall behind... or switching physics models when a player loses control, to allow them to "catch" the car more easily.
In this sense, GT's "Standard" mode (GT5P) and "Arcade" (GT4) mode are more sim-cade, while "Professional" mode is more simulator (no... again a thousand times no... there's no rubber band in Pro mode... in fact, GT AI drivers consistently drive at just 95% of their capability, whatever the car).
But, of course, GT doesn't simulate everything. GT4 modelled tire wear, but not tire temperatures. It showed wear as a temp-like graph... and required tires to "heat up" before achieving full grip... BUT it didn't allow tires to regain grip as they cooled down. Didn't, in fact, allow tires to cool down or get cold, at all.
Does that make it not a sim? Hardly. But it meant that it wasn't the most detailed sim.
But even the most detailed sims lack some real-life details... no sim gives you... or can give you... fully modelled crash-deformation... the computing power just isn't there yet... and licensing requirements will not let them ever accurately portray a consumer vehicle's crash safety.
Marbles... bent rims... the upsetting action a worn suspension bushing can have if you're leaning on the suspension in a corner... these things aren't normally included in video games...
Some sims allow you to overheat... but do they accurately model water pump cavitation? Or oil pump cavitation? Or even a loss of performance from hot fuel or sand getting in your air-filter?
There are hundreds of variables that go into making a "realistic" sim racer. And there are thousands that are left out, because they're not as important to the experience, or beyond the ability of the game engine to model.
So... no... not all sims would necessarily have tire temperatures... but to compete in the current market, yes, you need tire temperature, tire wear and tire deformation modelling.
-
On a side note... as I've mentioned this, anyway, in regards to GT4... if SHIFT simulates "cold" tires on the first lap... do the tires get "cold" again if you sit on the side of the road for a few laps?
What, exactly is a sim?
A simulator models and recreates real-world conditions in a virtual environment.
A driving simulator, thus, must recreate real-world conditions in modelling how a car drives down a racetrack.
This is as opposed to an arcade racer, which may simulate real-world conditions, but often changes physics parameters to make racing easier... giving more grip to the player's car, or more power... or giving more power to computer cars to allow them to catch up when they fall behind... or switching physics models when a player loses control, to allow them to "catch" the car more easily.
In this sense, GT's "Standard" mode (GT5P) and "Arcade" (GT4) mode are more sim-cade, while "Professional" mode is more simulator (no... again a thousand times no... there's no rubber band in Pro mode... in fact, GT AI drivers consistently drive at just 95% of their capability, whatever the car).
But, of course, GT doesn't simulate everything. GT4 modelled tire wear, but not tire temperatures. It showed wear as a temp-like graph... and required tires to "heat up" before achieving full grip... BUT it didn't allow tires to regain grip as they cooled down. Didn't, in fact, allow tires to cool down or get cold, at all.
Does that make it not a sim? Hardly. But it meant that it wasn't the most detailed sim.
But even the most detailed sims lack some real-life details... no sim gives you... or can give you... fully modelled crash-deformation... the computing power just isn't there yet... and licensing requirements will not let them ever accurately portray a consumer vehicle's crash safety.
Marbles... bent rims... the upsetting action a worn suspension bushing can have if you're leaning on the suspension in a corner... these things aren't normally included in video games...
Some sims allow you to overheat... but do they accurately model water pump cavitation? Or oil pump cavitation? Or even a loss of performance from hot fuel or sand getting in your air-filter?
There are hundreds of variables that go into making a "realistic" sim racer. And there are thousands that are left out, because they're not as important to the experience, or beyond the ability of the game engine to model.
So... no... not all sims would necessarily have tire temperatures... but to compete in the current market, yes, you need tire temperature, tire wear and tire deformation modelling.
-
On a side note... as I've mentioned this, anyway, in regards to GT4... if SHIFT simulates "cold" tires on the first lap... do the tires get "cold" again if you sit on the side of the road for a few laps?
- 13,866
- Adelaide
- Neomone
On a side note... as I've mentioned this, anyway, in regards to GT4... if SHIFT simulates "cold" tires on the first lap... do the tires get "cold" again if you sit on the side of the road for a few laps?
Now there's an interesting question. Relatively easy to test too, probably get on one of the little ring circuits and try and match cornering speeds cold and hot. I might try and check it out later tonight.
See... here's the tricky part...
What, exactly is a sim?
A simulator models and recreates real-world conditions in a virtual environment.
A driving simulator, thus, must recreate real-world conditions in modelling how a car drives down a racetrack.
This is as opposed to an arcade racer, which may simulate real-world conditions, but often changes physics parameters to make racing easier... giving more grip to the player's car, or more power... or giving more power to computer cars to allow them to catch up when they fall behind... or switching physics models when a player loses control, to allow them to "catch" the car more easily.
In this sense, GT's "Standard" mode (GT5P) and "Arcade" (GT4) mode are more sim-cade, while "Professional" mode is more simulator (no... again a thousand times no... there's no rubber band in Pro mode... in fact, GT AI drivers consistently drive at just 95% of their capability, whatever the car).
But, of course, GT doesn't simulate everything. GT4 modelled tire wear, but not tire temperatures. It showed wear as a temp-like graph... and required tires to "heat up" before achieving full grip... BUT it didn't allow tires to regain grip as they cooled down. Didn't, in fact, allow tires to cool down or get cold, at all.
Does that make it not a sim? Hardly. But it meant that it wasn't the most detailed sim.
But even the most detailed sims lack some real-life details... no sim gives you... or can give you... fully modelled crash-deformation... the computing power just isn't there yet... and licensing requirements will not let them ever accurately portray a consumer vehicle's crash safety.
Marbles... bent rims... the upsetting action a worn suspension bushing can have if you're leaning on the suspension in a corner... these things aren't normally included in video games...
Some sims allow you to overheat... but do they accurately model water pump cavitation? Or oil pump cavitation? Or even a loss of performance from hot fuel or sand getting in your air-filter?
There are hundreds of variables that go into making a "realistic" sim racer. And there are thousands that are left out, because they're not as important to the experience, or beyond the ability of the game engine to model.
So... no... not all sims would necessarily have tire temperatures... but to compete in the current market, yes, you need tire temperature, tire wear and tire deformation modelling.
-
On a side note... as I've mentioned this, anyway, in regards to GT4... if SHIFT simulates "cold" tires on the first lap... do the tires get "cold" again if you sit on the side of the road for a few laps?
Live For Speed's tyre physics and modeling are probably the best in this regard. They both heat up and cool down, have different wear rates on the tyre depending on the camber for example. It also has a very well done flat spotting system where by creating a flat spot will make a difference to tyre performance and continual locking up if thats where the issue is.
- 774
- Misawa, Japan
- PinkRanger_DRLFT
- Jiu Driftsu
LFS is awesome indeed.
JR ( Vaughn Gittin Jr. ) had some to do with the development of Shift. Team Falken runs the Azenis RT-615's. I also run the same tires for drifting/time attack on my cars. and you must heat them up to make them sticky. They have a fast Tread wear though :/ .
Very valid... cool to hear.
JR ( Vaughn Gittin Jr. ) had some to do with the development of Shift. Team Falken runs the Azenis RT-615's. I also run the same tires for drifting/time attack on my cars. and you must heat them up to make them sticky. They have a fast Tread wear though :/ .
Very valid... cool to hear.
Last edited:
