Tired of Tuning?

[zootallures]

I personally have never liked tuning much. I get it, but I think it is overdone with the online races especially with the pro physics races. I realize the concept is that it helps equalize differences between cars regarding power, weight and other factors. At the same time I think it overemphasizes a skill that is a bit unrelated to actually driving a specific car and adapting to that particular car, chiefly tuning. Also, lots of the tuned races turn into a one make race with similar tuning settings and a contest of who can cut corners the best without penalties.

I personally think the pro physics races would be a lot of fun if they utilized car categories like the beginner races, although tighter ones like a category for the odd cars out like the NSX, M3, IS-F, etc. In the beginner races all sloppy driving is compensated for with the standard physics and its a race of brute speed usually winning out. In the pro races its a tuning contest often. You never get those classic car vs. car matchups that make for great races and interesting comparisons, such as you see in Best Motoring. With the pro physics the differences between different cars' power isn't always influential in the outcome of a race, but the tuning nullifies this fact. I just think racing cars against other players using pro physics and stock cars would just be very fun and hope that we see this in the future.

 

[0zzy]

I dont know what you exactly mean by this.

If your saying you dislike this kind of tuning, have no fear, in GT5 I'm sure there will be the usual 'buy turbo's, engine parts, new seats' etc to increase speed and handling, not a 'bhp' and 'weight' metre.

 

[analog]

Do not agree at all with this as racing is also about tuning and understanding what makes a car drive the way you want it to.
It isn't just about the same cars whereby the only difference is the driving skill but also an intelligently rewarding approach to differentiate between those who've made an effort to actually learn about all aspects of car handling, etc. and those who just don't care or aren't bothered.
And everyone with only an average set of brains can easily understand or learn to understand the system used in GT as it isn't exactly rocket science to be honest ( and there are plenty of guides and tips right here ).

In real life racing for example, even the one-make or one-model series have basically the same raw material whereby the only difference is the set-up.
It's a balancing act between all aspects and if you think it should be all about power output you clearly have no real understanding of the equal importance of all the other aspects.

Having said that, for some it could be nice to have a stock-car race which would allow a level playingfield which would only differentiate between pure driver skill and car choice perhaps.
But this is also the case in the events which do allow you to tune ( adding only the choice how you prefer to set up the car ) and the choice of cars many seem to use in online races is probably only limited by the limited amount of cars available and a lack of imagination.

 

[syaieya]

I believe what he's referring to is the power point system. All the higher online races have a PP limit of say 600-800. and at those levels, only a few cars can even be raised or lowered to compete at that level. Say 600 pp at fuji intermediate. well 7 times out of 10 you'll end up seeing people get out the renault MR and nothing can compete at that level except the renault MR. Or the Ford GT at daytona where nothing can touch it. I mean theres no excuse that you shouldnt be able to be able to tweak a car using other settings to get the most out of it but if he's refering to the power point system limiting races I can totally understand. But in the racing world you gotta start with the best base to get the best performance.

 

[zootallures]

Do not agree at all with this as racing is also about tuning and understanding what makes a car drive the way you want it to.

I'm stating that I don't like tuning that much and you say you disagree. So, are you saying that I'm wrong and really like it? I love these knee jerk reactions to things that are half-read. My main point was that being able to race stock cars with pro physics should be available. I'm not stating that tuning should be banned or doesn't require skill, but that it doesn't allow for equal comparisons of cars the way they are. THAT is what interests me: comparing the cars with each other the way they would be if you could actually afford to buy a few of them and drive them. Some of us still like the game for what it's perpetual tagline has been: The Real Driving Simulator. Racing is great, but some of us still want to simulate DRIVING cars we can't afford, not modding and turning them into track cars for races.

 

[zootallures]

Say 600 pp at fuji intermediate. well 7 times out of 10 you'll end up seeing people get out the renault MR and nothing can compete at that level except the renault MR.

This is exactly my point. Yet, if I race at the London track with the mid-size cars in a non PP race, I can take just about all drivers in a Clio with either an Integra or a TT. In a PP race few cars can hang with the Clio. So yes, it mods out nicely but as an actual car you could own it wouldn't necessarily be your first choice as a sports car. I'm realizing that I'm one of the few people who like GT for its ability to let you vicariously drive fast cars you could never afford to own in real life, or at least not in any significant quantity that can be owned in the game. Most people just seem to want to race. I don't get it. I like racing, but driving simulation is cool too, at least for me. I really just don't see much interest in driving simulation at this forum.

 

[analog]

I'm stating that I don't like tuning that much and you say you disagree. So, are you saying that I'm wrong and really like it? I love these knee jerk reactions to things that are half-read. My main point was that being able to race stock cars with pro physics should be available. I'm not stating that tuning should be banned or doesn't require skill, but that it doesn't allow for equal comparisons of cars the way they are. THAT is what interests me: comparing the cars with each other the way they would be if you could actually afford to buy a few of them and drive them. Some of us still like the game for what it's perpetual tagline has been: The Real Driving Simulator. Racing is great, but some of us still want to simulate DRIVING cars we can't afford, not modding and turning them into track cars for races.

Knee jerk reaction, suggesting you're wrong and half reading? Well thanks for a friendly reaction to a post you wrote, I've read completely and you obviously didn't read my reaction fully as I made clear in the last part that I don't object to a level playing field consisting of stock cars.

I made a clear distinction between real life racing being replicated in a game ( where I do think tuning is an important element ) and racing those cars in a game replicated as they are intended by the manufacturer.

But thinking having a different opinion somehow suggests your opinion therefore is wrong and defending by attacking the person who wrote it ( and not what I actually said ) doesn't really help any debate.
Why even start a debate on this topic when any critical note to your opinions are met with a full on attack?
Did you expect only those to react who completely agreed?
Keep up the good work, bravo!

Oh and for the record, with saying I don't agree at all, I meant ofcourse your main theory of tuning being far too predominant in the current situation ( as most who've actually read your piece would say was the main theme ) but I won't further discuss due to the reasons mentioned before....

 

[zootallures]

Why even start a debate on this topic when any critical note to your opinions are met with a full on attack?
Did you expect only those to react who completely agreed?
Keep up the good work, bravo!

I didn't attack you, I just pointed out that what you are saying doesn't make sense regarding my problem with tuning. I didn't insult you or berate you. I stated that your post was a "knee-jerk reaction" and that you "half-read" my post. That's a "full on attack"? Wow, you Dutch boys are quite sensitive. I'm a little embarrassed for you. Butch up, brother, and join the male ranks.

 

[Captain Roh]

I'm not a moderator but let me just step in and say calm down eh chaps. You're both verging on being very close to dishing out personal insults and i wouldnt like to see either of you get infractions, we arent even off the first page! Lets just cool it and get on with the thread.

Back on topic and I have to agree with zoot. While i'm impressed with the ability to turn an every day car into a tuned concept killer, i cant help but feel all of the cars character is wasted on making it go fast. I was racing the 512 event the other day with a friend. I didnt tune the suspension or gearing at all, i put it on n tyres and had an absolute blast. When i came to race with everyone in the official thread however, it was PP to the max, grippy tyres and reworked suspension. Very clever, and much faster.. but was it fun? Not really. It felt just like every other car we tune and race in one make series.

I absolutely love to race, sorry zoot but i actually wish both concepts could be implimented. I've thought many times about making a thread dedicated to concours racing, and I actually think that maybe i might since at least one other person shares my sentiments. Racing for me is about fun, not racing round like a bat out of hell with your pants on fire. Whats wrong with taking a stock car on relative to its performance tyres and racing each other in that? I'd care to wager that it would be just as fun as trying to better your lap times!

 

[analog]

I didn't attack you, I just pointed out that what you are saying doesn't make sense regarding my problem with tuning. I didn't insult you or berate you. I stated that your post was a "knee-jerk reaction" and that you "half-read" my post. That's a "full on attack"? Wow, you Dutch boys are quite sensitive. I'm a little embarrassed for you. Butch up, brother, and join the male ranks.

Apart from being a broad generalization of the male inhabitants of The Netherlands you seem to have more experience with Dutch boys than I have.
And you have to see the phrase "full on attack" in the context of this debate and keeping in mind the general AUP used here to keep discussions civilized.
You may not consider the things you wrote a direct insult but suggesting I came to my conclusions by assuming I half-read or misunderstood what you wrote in a sarcastic manner doesn't exactly contribute to a mature discussion now does it?
You may disagree with my opinion and tell me I perhaps misunderstood the main theme of your argument ( which could very well be the case ) but the attitude displayed in your reaction doesn't really contribute to a discussion related to the actual content of both your arguments or the ones I made.
But I hope for you only those eligible to join your butched-up male ranks ( with whatever that actually implies, not sure I even want to know ) will be more than willing to further continue this "discussion"....

 

[Scaff]

Wow, you Dutch boys are quite sensitive. I'm a little embarrassed for you. Butch up, brother, and join the male ranks.

Not even close to acceptable.

Do not under any circumstances attack another member again, or I will arrange a 'time-out' from the site for you.

I strongly recommend that you re-read the AUP (that you agreed to follow when you joined) before posting again.

This post is not for discussion or debate, its instruction, take it in that manner and no other.


Scaff


Ohhh - look he's gone.

 

[Scaff]

Back on topic and I have to agree with zoot. While i'm impressed with the ability to turn an every day car into a tuned concept killer, i cant help but feel all of the cars character is wasted on making it go fast. I was racing the 512 event the other day with a friend. I didnt tune the suspension or gearing at all, i put it on n tyres and had an absolute blast. When i came to race with everyone in the official thread however, it was PP to the max, grippy tyres and reworked suspension. Very clever, and much faster.. but was it fun? Not really. It felt just like every other car we tune and race in one make series.

I absolutely love to race, sorry zoot but i actually wish both concepts could be implimented. I've thought many times about making a thread dedicated to concours racing, and I actually think that maybe i might since at least one other person shares my sentiments. Racing for me is about fun, not racing round like a bat out of hell with your pants on fire. Whats wrong with taking a stock car on relative to its performance tyres and racing each other in that? I'd care to wager that it would be just as fun as trying to better your lap times!

I know this is a double-post - but I do not want to mix my thread reply with moderation.

I don't know why this needs to be made a big deal as I believe that GT5 will have an on-line 'track-day' mode, which combined with private lobbies (to ensure no one gets silly and spoils your fun) gives you exactly what you are asking for.

I know for one if this does make the final game its an on-line mode I will use a lot.

👍

Scaff