To PC Shift modders...

[Destinkeys]

I know boxox is one of them, not sure if any others are posting here, but...

How much direct communication with SMS do you guys get? What I'm getting at is, there were some VERY useful mods to the PC version of Shift that any console user would have DIED for. This time around, is there any way to encourage SMS to take the best, least controversial of them, and roll them into console patches?

Perhaps complete physics changes might be beyond the scope of them (mind you, why not, if they provably improve the response?), but I was thinking along the lines of things like the mod to remove the wheel from the display, for players that ALREADY have a wheel in front of them, or the mod to allow all tracks to be raced in reverse (or at least the fantasy ones, if the license depends on accuracy from the racetrack owners), or some of the other minor, but very USABLE things you guys figured out...

Do SMS need your permission to use the mods, or is it basically, if it's OK for you guys to mod whether they want you to or not, it's OK for them to use those mods without paying you?

It sure would be nice if the console players got at least SOME of the benefits of your dedication... 👍

 

[boxox]

They don't need permission for anything and the kind of mods you're describing there are both intuitively obvious things to do both in the concept and execution of them

Very very occasionally someone will get a response from them about something, but usually something of fairly limited utility as far as making a mod goes. If you can compress your question into something short that has an easy yes-or-no kind of answer (eg not "describe in detail the operation of the following 9 undocumented functions I found") and doesn't involve them having to do much to answer it - you might - maybe - get an answer to it. But usually not.

 

[Destinkeys]

Yeah, I see. Well, in the context of what I asked, it's more about you telling THEM 'Hey look, we figured this out... want to use it for a console patch?' sort of thing!

 

[boxox]

I got them to look at some of the bugs we found in Shift 1 which we thought would be embarrassing to run into in the sequel. But other stuff and anything that touches on code issues, they know how it works (or rather - how it is supposed to work ) better than anyone on the outside does and we're not really going to be able to tell them anything about it.

I would hate for there to be some impression created that the PC mods are so good that they should take a lesson from us on how to do things. Most of what we did was fix bugs, supplement data in areas where it was weak or being stretched a bit too far between different cars, and reverse some game design decisions. They know how the game was before they implemented those features, there is not some magic thing we did that lets you drive in reverse other than remove the rules they implemented that prevents you from doing it. They know how to fill in the fields of data better than we do, they just ran out of time/design focus to do them for Shift 1.

 

[Destinkeys]

I imagine it more in the terms of... 'Look how many people love this mod...' and then, if you guys have taken the time to do the code, all they need to do is slot it in quickly.

If time is of the essence, if you guys have done the grunt work, it ought to be quicker for them to incorporate it into a patch?

One thing I always wanted to ask...

Did you guys ever work on the collision detection and attempt a penalty system? Did you take a look at what the game looks at in terms of damage generation, and try to see if that data could be used intelligently to detect where a collision had come from, whether it was them barging you or you barging them, etc.?

I've always wondered why it is so difficult for major racing game makers to get this detail right. Several try, and I don't really know of one that manages to get it right properly...

You got any insight into how the game calculates this?

 

[Imari]

I imagine they're unlikely to reuse new code wholesale for legal reasons. The difficulty involved in finding all the people involved in a mod and getting them to sign away their rights to it would be too great.

On the other hand, they can see what's been done and they can probably duplicate it fairly easily with their superior knowledge of how all the systems fit together.

The collision system thing is a fun one to play with mentally. I have no idea how it works in the game, but if you can imagine your own little system of two simple box cars moving relative to one another. Even imagining you have access to every variable and spare computing power for whatever you want, it's not a trivial task to write a set of rules to assign fault for every situation that can arise. It is kind of fun to try though.

 

[boxox]

I know it sounds like it would be easy to do but if you consider

a) any set of rules you develop for this will be undermined by anyone who wants to do so, and as you tighten them up, you will just get more false positives without catching jerks

b) trying to make the computer understand what happened in a collision is a bit like expecting someone who's blind and has severe alzheimer's to be an excellent traffic cop

Some penalties work obviously from what you see in data, but in terms of sorting out who gets punished, you don't see so much of this and there's a reason for that