Trying to tune the RS200. Have some questions.

[EivlEvo]

There's an updated tune a few posts down!

Alright...

Currently this is where I'm at.

Ford RS 200
407HP
307 Ft/lbs
1197KG (I have 17kg of ballast at -25)
500PP
Sports Softs
No downforce.

Transmission:
1st: 2.801
2nd: 2.000
3rd: 1.550
4th: 1.250
5th: 0.994
Final: 4.200
Top Speed: 174 in the box, 165 on the chart.

Torque Split: 25/75

LSD: Front: 5/5/5 Rear: 12/12/18

Suspension:
Ride Height: -50/-53
Spring Rates: 5.9/9.1
Damp Extend: 3/4
Damp Compress: 2/3
ARB's: 4/4
Camber: -2.0/-1.5
Toe: -0.12/+0.04

Brakes: 9/8

Here are my questions. And... admittedly, I understand many if not all of the concepts of tuning in real life (well not all... lets get real) but, I really have no idea how to translate them to GT5.

So... when cornering, my outside front tire is almost always glowing red... this causes reverted rubber hydroplaning and ultimately understeer.

The car definitely has an on power and off power turning radius. I attribute this to the diffs... but I'm not sure how to tune it.

All of this is further complicated by the thread where all of the suspension is backwards?

I've been running low 1:35's and high 1:34's around Laguna. Ask me questions so I can get answers.

 

[Basilea]

Outside front tyre burning is, as far as I know, that you turn too much and you can't get rid of it...

If you use ABS 1 then I don't see a reason for the LSD braking anything higher than 10, most 5 is good too.

 

[Adrenaline]

Try these 1 at a time, or combine as many as you need to get a feel for which ones you like.

Rear LSD Initial down to 10, or 8
Rear LSD DeAccel @ 5 or 7
Brake Bias @ 6 / 8
Toe: 0.00 / 0.00
Move the ballast to -50
Increase front Ride height to -47
Torque Split to 20/80
Then increase the front sway bar to 5 or 6 to see what happens.

Shocks are a huge part, but they are my weak point, so I can't advise on that aspect.
Combine a few of the above and see what works. I'd recommended getting rid of the ballast unless you need it for a restriction of some sort.

 

[cdowns]

It could be your brake balance and spring rate combination. The low spring rate could be forcing all of the weight of the car onto that outside front tire. Try stiffening the front springs a little and lowering the brake balance numbers. It might help... it might not.

 

[EivlEvo]

Thanks... hopefully I'll get some time tomorrow to put some of this advice to the test.

 

[EivlEvo]

Alright...

Currently this is where I'm at.

Ford RS 200
407HP
307 Ft/lbs
1197KG (I have 17kg of ballast at -30)
500PP
Sports Softs
No downforce.

Transmission:
1st: 2.801
2nd: 2.000
3rd: 1.550
4th: 1.250
5th: 0.994
Final: 4.200
Top Speed: 174 in the box, 165 on the chart.

Torque Split: 25/75

LSD: Front: 5/5/5 Rear: 12/12/18

Suspension:
Ride Height: -47/-53
Spring Rates: 6.0/9.1
Damp Extend: 3/4
Damp Compress: 2/3
ARB's: 6/4
Camber: -2.0/-1.5
Toe: 0.00/+0.01

Brakes: 9/6

This tune has me running a 1:34.189 at Laguna on Sports Softs at 500PP. For now... I'll call it something to use and base other tunes off of? As far as I've seen, theres only 2 other tunes out there. Both were less than spectacular, and one was on this site. Not trying to discredit them, but, they just didn't fit my style.

Hopefully... someone will take this and mold it into something great, but for now... this is what I've got.

Thanks to those that gave me some ideas!

 

[Greycap]

I don't know if the one you found here was my "Cosworth" but if it was and you didn't like it, I'm wondering why... mine understeers noticably less (and you see understeer as a problem, no?) with the front tyres not going red half as often and the gearbox is something like 99.8% similar. My version detuned to 500PP by limiting the power produced a lap time of 1'32,555 so at least the performance is there.

 

[EivlEvo]

Hmm actually I think it was from madfinn.

Perhaps I'll give it another go since I've probably learned to drive the car a little more by now.

I suspect that I was just thinking it didn't drive like I thought it should've. I have the race here in about an hour, so I think I'll stick with this tune I've setup just because I'm used to it. But I'll be sure to give yours a go again.

Also though... note the power limiter is a bad (I'm sure you've heard this) deal because it means that the car reaches its peak HP and stays at it, instead of being limited to a specific PP or HP. So I think a car that is ballast limited to a PP level will always be slower than a car that is limited to a PP level through the air restrictor. No?

 

[Greycap]

Hmm actually I think it was from madfinn.

That would be just mine.

The restrictor acts as you described, yes, but it hardly matters when taking off small amounts of power. When restricting a 700 bhp engine to 350 bhp it surely makes a difference (not necessarily always to the better, mind) but when restricting a 419 bhp engine to 401 bhp it's not even noticable - it just cuts the highest peak. The larger difference comes from the car being lighter and again, the 17 kg you used in a car weighing well over a ton is just about non-existant when it comes to the performance.

 

[EivlEvo]

That would be just mine.

I know sir. We were agreeing with each other... I'm giving yours a run just now...

Also as I'm sure you'll notice... I'm using your transmission...

 

[Greycap]

Back to the different ways of adjusting the PP, I restricted my car to 406 bhp (yours isn't making full power for some reason) and ballasted it to the specified 1197 kg to see if there's a difference. There is, but not to the direction you might have expected - 1'32,465 was clocked.

 

[EivlEvo]

Greycap... For me... your tune feels a little more solid, but I just can't get it into the corners at the same speeds that I can with mine. This may be because of the hodgepodge of parts I have on the car and the ballast to get it to my 500PP requirement, but yours wants to 4 wheel drift on me a lot. This is obviously because I'm taking the corners too fast, but I feel like with the tune I've laid out, I'm getting those results?

Are you tuning/driving with a ds3 or a wheel? Maybe it's that, or maybe its my driving ability? Have you tried my tune? What did you think of it in general compared to yours?

That all said... I'm not a tuner. So... if mine ends up doing good things, I'd probably say I got lucky more than knew what i was doing...

 

[EivlEvo]

Back to the different ways of adjusting the PP, I restricted my car to 406 bhp (yours isn't making full power for some reason) and ballasted it to the specified 1197 kg to see if there's a difference. There is, but not to the direction you might have expected - 1'32,465 was clocked.

My mods are...

Engine tuning stage 3
Sports Intake Manifold
Sports Exhaust manifold
Titanium Semi Racing Exhaust
High RPM Turbo
FC Trans
FC Diff
Torque Sensing Center Diff
FC Suspension

And Sports Soft Tires.

My car has 26,255.9 miles on it and has had the motor and chassis rebuilt.

Also, BHP and HP are different units of measure.

 

[Greycap]

I've been a wheel user for the last four years but it shouldn't make a big difference provided that you know your way around with whatever you're using. My driving style can be one of the reasons, I usually prefer oversteering cars as they can be driven "nose first" if desired but understeering cars are hard to get turning well. The oversteer is just a safety net in case there's a problem while making the turn.

Your version, in general, is more stable than mine. A lot more stable. Unfortunately it also means it doesn't turn as eagerly, needs more forcing into the corners and necessitates a larger turning angle for the front wheels which eventually leads to them rubbing and losing grip. The RS200 isn't exactly a car with lots of mechanical grip so it's nearly a necessity to keep it in a shallow drift to make it turn, otherwise the light front end won't give the tyres enough bite to turn the car. The best lap I got with your setup was 1'33,390 and the main limiting reason was not being able to open the throttle as early as I would have liked to without the front end washing out. Yours is probably faster for someone with a liking for steady cars, mine is faster for those who like to balance on the edge of grip.

The power difference seems to come from me having the full race exhaust. Not a big thing though, seeing how much the different ways of adjusting the PP affect the lap time.

 

[Adrenaline]

Each time you update your tune, you should include that update into the first post. This way I don't have to edit the database every time you make a new revision. Thanks

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Perhaps you could try waiting until tune is ready before updating?

 

[EivlEvo]

Each time you update your tune, you should include that update into the first post. This way I don't have to edit the database every time you make a new revision. Thanks

I put an edited header into the first post Adrenaline specifically with your thread in mind? Or are you linking directly to the posts now? If you're linking to the thread then it should be fine as they'll see the red header and know to scroll on down the page.

Also... thanks for the kind words greycap. I can tell you one thing that IS a big difference between the controller and the wheel is the throttle and brake modulation. I still haven't "trained" myself to use the R2/L2 Gas/brake combo, and I feel like my "thumb feathering" of the X and box buttons is pretty good, but even still...

You hit the nail on the head though, my tune is fastest if you know that exact millisecond to hit the throttle. If you hit it early, the front end washes out (though it will still oversteer a bit), if you hit it too late, then you'll end up losing BIG amounts of time on your laps. The best I could muster in our race today was 1:34's with an average around the 1:38's at Laguna.

Anyway... onto the Ford Ka for this next weeks race

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Guesstimate time ftlulz.

Torque Split: 35/65

LSD: Front: 12/32/15 Rear: 7/52/8

Suspension:
Ride Height: -30/-30
Spring Rates: 8.0/12.0
Damp Extend: 8/9
Damp Compress: 5/6
ARB's: 1/3
Camber: -2.0/-1.5
Toe: -0.20/-0.05

Brakes: 6/8

Yep, my diffs look funny.