Tuning?

[calaby01]

I know there is a separate subsection for it but I know the answers I would likely get back from the regular readers there. I wanted to get a broader base of respondents. Hopefully the moderators will see fit to leave this thread here, thanks in advance.

How many of you out there tune other than to match up perf. pts. ?
How many of those that tune put more than a quick try one time and then just change the gearing for the track?
For the more serious tuners out there on average how many tenths can a good setup save for say a f430 per lap?

The reason I am asking is I only match perf pts and do ok at expert level events and pretty well at intermediate races. Now this drives my cousin the engineer nuts but thats just me. I also race sprint karts and if I could talk my engine builder and chassis tuner into letting me show up and just turn laps I would. But I have to play a role in maintenance there. I am just wanting to know if I am really losing out on that much within this game by not tuning.

 

[clacksman]

The reason I am asking is I only match perf pts and do ok at expert level events and pretty well at intermediate races.

If this satisfies and entertains you, then who's to say what you should be doing?

Going from default tune to a good tune is usually more than a few tenths of a second per lap for me. I generally can't leave my cars alone, I like tinkering.

 

[Paulie]

What, you think all the tuners in the tuning sub-section don't put in hours to tuning all the time? You could be losing as little as a second/lap by not tuning the setup of the vehicle.

 

[calaby01]

What, you think all the tuners in the tuning sub-section don't put in hours to tuning all the time? You could be losing as little as a second/lap by not tuning the setup of the vehicle.

Quite the opposite I figured those racers probably put in a lot of time because that is where there interests lie. And I wasn't sure how much of a difference there is within the game.

 

[Paulie]

Quite the opposite I figured those racers probably put in a lot of time because that is where there interests lie. And I wasn't sure how much of a difference there is within the game.

Depends on the car, but normally almost a full second, sometimes more, sometimes less. If you just want to plug and play, you could simply grab one of the tunes provided in the tuning section.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I am just wanting to know if I am really losing out on that much within this game by not tuning.

Short answer: yes, you are. Just follow Paulie's advice and try a couple of tunes from the tuning section.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

Whenever I steal setups from one of the tuning garages on GTPlanet, I go at least a second per lap faster. But more importantly, alot more important actually, the cars are alot more stable and consistent. It also saves me time so I can race, instead of beating my head on the wheel trying to figure out a good setup, I LOVE the tuning grages!

 

[FlatLineFred]

Well my boss who turned me onto GT5P has finished every race excet S10 without changing a thing other than the PP.

Me? I like playing around with the different things. It's actually quite surprising how much of a difference a 1/2 degree of camber can make in the corners! I don't have hard numbers, but I do know that tuning will shave off time off your laps. I know it did on mine.

If you can get by without tuning, don't bother and just enjoy.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

Me? I like playing around with the different things. It's actually quite surprising how much of a difference a 1/2 degree of camber can make in the corners! .

Just so you know, the numbers under toe, and camber have no real world value.. such as degrees. Ride height says mm, toe and camber are just numbers for refrence. Kaz needs to get his act together, such generic values are not so Sim like.

 

[Ardius]

The problem with using real world measurements is there are conversions for different countries and getting these wrong is a massive problem. Plus some countries use different measurements at the same time rather bizarrely.

I think they just used made up measurements to make it easier to work out changes to a car and also perhaps to make it look less daunting to people who don't know their ins and outs of cars, which to be fair is the vast majority of players.
I don't see why its necessary to use real measurements as its not like the game is being used to teach people how to setup their car beyond learning the theory.

 

[balang_479]

The problem with using real world measurements is there are conversions for different countries and getting these wrong is a massive problem. Plus some countries use different measurements at the same time rather bizarrely.

I think they just used made up measurements to make it easier to work out changes to a car and also perhaps to make it look less daunting to people who don't know their ins and outs of cars, which to be fair is the vast majority of players.
I don't see why its necessary to use real measurements as its not like the game is being used to teach people how to setup their car beyond learning the theory.

Measurements are very important, otherwise all we are doing is changing numbers, i want to be able to relate to the real world, thats what simulators are, plus in GT5 when it comes out, I would love to try out some setups for real life cars I have, but would be impossible without units... I'm hoping GT5 will be fairly realistic when it comes to tuning.

 

[calaby01]

Well I took some of the advice to pick out a setup and see what happens. I figured on a car that almost everyone has a lot of seat time in the 04 Integra, it should be easy to notice differences. Went to one of the "local" tuning houses here, found and applied their setup and within ten laps had dropped a little over a second off my previous best. Still didn't understand exactly what I was doing to make it all come together as a good tune so I'll have to keep finding setups here. Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I would love to try out some setups for real life cars I have, but would be impossible without units...

Games use a simplified model of reality. I would seriously advise you not to try any setup from a game in real life, because I can almost guarantee you'll get into trouble because the real life car will not respond like it does in the game. Of course, I would be interested to know the results if you did.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

The problem with using real world measurements is there are conversions for different countries and getting these wrong is a massive problem. Plus some countries use different measurements at the same time rather bizarrely.

I think they just used made up measurements to make it easier to work out changes to a car and also perhaps to make it look less daunting to people who don't know their ins and outs of cars, which to be fair is the vast majority of players.
I don't see why its necessary to use real measurements as its not like the game is being used to teach people how to setup their car beyond learning the theory.

Well I can change pounds to Kilograms already... its not that hard. For Camber- I am pretty sure everybody uses Degrees. For Toe- mm to inches isnt very hard, most americans use Metric when it comes to this kind of thing anyways. Mathematics is the Universal Language.

For the last post- he wants to use his Real World setup on the game, not the other way around. And yes, the cars in GT5 should react the same as real cars anyways.... "the Real Driving Simulator" ring a bell?

 

[NLxAROSA]

For the last post- he wants to use his Real World setup on the game, not the other way around.

My bad. The other way around is of course safe (and indeed interesting to see how an in-game tuning setup relates to a real-world setup). 👍

And yes, the cars in GT5 should react the same as real cars anyways.... "the Real Driving Simulator" ring a bell?

That is correct, they should. The reality is that games (GT5P is no exception) use a simplified model of reality that does not take everything into account. So they do not handle exactly the same as in real life.

 

[panjandrum]

Actually, I think there are some distinct advantages in NOT tuning your cars too much, at least if you are interested in experiencing, to some extent, what the real cars are like. Often tuning is used to make a car handle in a more "generic" way. The most obvious example in GT5P is the Ferrari 512, which is considerably softer and more tail-happy than the newer Ferraris. Sure, you can tune that out if you want, but then it doesn't feel like a Ferrari 512 anymore. For me, a LOT of the fun of the game is that the cars feel and drive uniquely. So when I do tune, I tend to tune the suspension setup as little as possible. In fact, when you see me out there racing, my suspension setup is often completely stock (but not always).

So yeah, you may lose a bit of time on some tracks, but you may be gaining in the enjoyment department. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[Ardius]

Well I can change pounds to Kilograms already... its not that hard. For Camber- I am pretty sure everybody uses Degrees. For Toe- mm to inches isnt very hard, most americans use Metric when it comes to this kind of thing anyways. Mathematics is the Universal Language.

For the last post- he wants to use his Real World setup on the game, not the other way around. And yes, the cars in GT5 should react the same as real cars anyways.... "the Real Driving Simulator" ring a bell?

Note that I didn't say those calculations would be hard, I said that one mistake anywhere in the calculation (in this case, in the programming code) would make massive difference and could potentially break some cars in the game or make them rediculously fast or slow.
Not having such calulations is one less thing to go wrong and I don't see why the game has to be that realistic. As much as you want it to be a true simulator, Gran Turismo never will be 100% real.

 

[clacksman]

Note that I didn't say those calculations would be hard, I said that one mistake anywhere in the calculation (in this case, in the programming code) would make massive difference and could potentially break some cars in the game or make them rediculously fast or slow.
Not having such calulations is one less thing to go wrong and I don't see why the game has to be that realistic. As much as you want it to be a true simulator, Gran Turismo never will be 100% real.

If the forces in the game are consistent and not randomized in any way, there's no reason the measurement can't be changed to 'read' in any type in the game's interface. The benign example I'll use is km/h versus mph. What label is put on the readout is insignificant, so long as the mechanics of the game and how they relate to the physics is correct.

I do agree with your assessment that this game will never be 100% real, but I would appreciate the increase in realism in the tuning that 'real numbers' would offer.

 

[Ardius]

If the forces in the game are consistent and not randomized in any way, there's no reason the measurement can't be changed to 'read' in any type in the game's interface. The benign example I'll use is km/h versus mph. What label is put on the readout is insignificant, so long as the mechanics of the game and how they relate to the physics is correct.

I do agree with your assessment that this game will never be 100% real, but I would appreciate the increase in realism in the tuning that 'real numbers' would offer.

Its, as always, a human problem that would cause the issues, an extreme example, but say they accidentally used the weight in pounds rather than kilograms when setting the variables for a car, this would drastically affect the performance.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

Note that I didn't say those calculations would be hard, I said that one mistake anywhere in the calculation (in this case, in the programming code) would make massive difference and could potentially break some cars in the game or make them rediculously fast or slow.
Not having such calulations is one less thing to go wrong and I don't see why the game has to be that realistic. As much as you want it to be a true simulator, Gran Turismo never will be 100% real.

This arguement is ridiculous. Calculating mm to inches is the only calculation! Duh, the game wont be completly real... its on a TV! Gives us degrees for camber, and mm for toe, we dont need other options. If they can make a Ferrari look like a Ferrari, and a Ford look like a Ford, and flowers look like flowers... they can give up degrees of camber!

The entire world uses math the same, degrees are part of geometry. Geometry is the same in Japan as it is in the UK as it is in the US of A.

360 degrees in a circle right?

 

[Ardius]

This arguement is ridiculous. Calculating mm to inches is the only calculation! Duh, the game wont be completly real... its on a TV! Gives us degrees for camber, and mm for toe, we dont need other options. If they can make a Ferrari look like a Ferrari, and a Ford look like a Ford, and flowers look like flowers... they can give up degrees of camber!

The entire world uses math the same, degrees are part of geometry. Geometry is the same in Japan as it is in the UK as it is in the US of A.

360 degrees in a circle right?

Actually, in some programming languages, we use radians not degrees but that wasn't my point as I just posted.

 

[clacksman]

Its, as always, a human problem that would cause the issues, an extreme example, but say they accidentally used the weight in pounds rather than kilograms when setting the variables for a car, this would drastically affect the performance.

That would show up pretty quickly in testing. Unless it was something minor like weight of a suspension component.

I still think that we should get 'real numbers' for any adjustment we can make in a variety of metric/imperial/whatever scales, but point taken.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

As far as I am concerned, we dont need options like mph or kph, pounds or kilos, just give us real numbers. 2.2 of camber is stupid, how do you not agree? I am baffled. Use F'ing radians, Ill look it up and convert over to degrees myself. BTW we cant lower our cars in inches, only mm. No one complains, because it is concrete. We can see in our heads what is happening. Camber and Toe is strictly triall and Error. Im baffled.

 

[clacksman]

No one complaining about ride height mm might be due to that being as close to real numbers as we get in GT5P as of yet.

Still, some might prefer to do that in fractions of an inch.

It took quite a while for GT to have km/h as an option from mph, so I'm not too hopeful of real numbers making it into the game.

I do want them.

 

[Ardius]

That would show up pretty quickly in testing. Unless it was something minor like weight of a suspension component.

I still think that we should get 'real numbers' for any adjustment we can make in a variety of metric/imperial/whatever scales, but point taken.

You say that but....they have made some errors before. And if this massive car list we are hearing is true, the potential for minor mistakes increases.
But I agree, its a bit of a non-issue and it could easily be patched later on.

Really I was just playing devil's advocate here.

As far as I am concerned, we dont need options like mph or kph, pounds or kilos, just give us real numbers. 2.2 of camber is stupid, how do you not agree? I am baffled. Use F'ing radians, Ill look it up and convert over to degrees myself. BTW we cant lower our cars in inches, only mm. No one complains, because it is concrete. We can see in our heads what is happening. Camber and Toe is strictly triall and Error. Im baffled.

To be honest, I don't really care. It works fine as it is and its such a minor thing, almost in the regions of "I demand reverse lights", that I'd rather them focus on the important things first, like actually building the game engine properly, expanding this great physics engine and hopefully making a brilliant online mode.

 

[clacksman]

It works fine as it is and its such a minor thing, that I'd rather them focus on the important things first, like actually building the game engine properly, expanding this great physics engine and hopefully making a brilliant online mode.

Hope my little edit is ok with you.

This I agree with, any 'want list' for GT5 typically includes things like reverse lights and such. I want those too, but the basic physics and online usefulness are far farther up my list of things the game needs to have to earn my purchase of it.