Tunining Calculator

[ryanerb]

So I have spent some time overall researching tuning calculators to set Aero, Spring Rates, Camber and things like that based off of driving style and general track types.

The more I research the "real world" calculations for this its gets more and more complex... Spring Rate for instance is adjusted based off of the following

Corner Weight - Derived from weight balance but for 1 tire (this isnt supported in GT)
Ride Height - Sure this is there...
Suspension types - Double Wishbone, Fixed, etc... (no notes of this anywhere in game)
Downforce setting - again, in game

So I wanted to build a calculator that you enter the following:
Driving Style:
- Slow in Fast Out
- Mid in Mid Out
- Fast in Slow Out
Track Type
- Superspeedway (Daytona - Indy)
- Short Winding Track (Deep Forest - Tskuba - Autumn Ring)
- Corner track with Straights (Fuji - Grand Valley)
- Fast Corners (Cape Ring - Suzuki)

Then enter some basic car data:
Total Weight
Weight Distribution (front to back)
Drive Type
- FF
- FR
- MR
- AWD
HP

And after giving those items it would respond back with (at least a rough) setting for your car.

Ok, so here is where I need some of the help (maybe someone has already done this... idk) I need calculations because obviously the game physics dont work exactly like real life. They cant... Left to Right weight balance isnt handled in GT... So corner weight would have to be assumed or another calculation would be used... also the suspension types would again have to be assumed unless they have something on the back end that we dont see calculating those...

At the end of the day, a program (game) consists of numerous calculations... If those calculations were reverse engineered we could develop a calculator that would plug in the right numbers to best use to mesh with the GT Physics Engine

Thanks


*** EDIT ***
I have found this for Forza Motorsports (I dont play that) and I tried plugging in the numbers in the units of measurement that GT uses and it threw out Spring Rates that were WAY out of bounds (ie: spring rate for a GTR calculated at 89.9) So something is different....

 

[thechosenwonton]

Awesome concept - I would be of no help other than to suggest posting this in the tuning forum? You may get someone who could help you out there.

 

[ryanerb]

Awesome concept - I would be of no help other than to suggest posting this in the tuning forum? You may get someone who could help you out there.

Like I said I stumbled across one for Forza... and of course it wont hit perfect settings but should be able to at least put it in the ballpark

 

[MSTER232]

This is good having a tuning calculator, because many people would use it 👍 .

 

[ryanerb]

Thanks for moving it over here...

I do need help if any tuners out there have calculations they use to do this. I would put them together to make it easier and put it up on my website for everyone to use.

But like I said, I need some calculations that people are using to put this together

 

[Motor City Hami]

To be honest, you really have a long way to go if you are asking others for the calculation methods to develop your tuning tool. Highlandor has done quite a bit around finding the right weight distribution. I've seen a couple of others in these forums as well that try to optimize tuning through calculations.

I wish you luck, but like I said you have a long way to go.

 

[ryanerb]

To be honest, you really have a long way to go if you are asking others for the calculation methods to develop your tuning tool. Highlandor has done quite a bit around finding the right weight distribution. I've seen a couple of others in these forums as well that try to optimize tuning through calculations.

I wish you luck, but like I said you have a long way to go.

Yeah I know I have a long way to go. It was a random thought I had a few weeks ago and have been researching in realworld application and there are TONS of tools out there but not a single one converts in any form to GT... I have researched quite a bit and RL application isnt anything like GT application. But you would think there is something out there at least in the bits and pieces that I can put together.

Of course I realize that something like this probably wont hit perfect tuning at all but I would like to at least get it in the ballpark.

BTW - I am a web developer and have built commercial calculators for a really financial institution and complex mathematical systems as well for a horse racing track.

My experience is once I can get a set of working calculations I can build the system and the interface in a fairly short amount of time

 

[Motor City Hami]

I want to know why young computer programming hacker types haven't been able to either crack the games coding or hack into the PD computer system to find the actual programming codes for the physics engine. That data would be useful.

 

[ryanerb]

I want to know why young computer programming hacker types haven't been able to either crack the games coding or hack into the PD computer system to find the actual programming codes for the physics engine. That data would be useful.

OH YES!!! lol... Otherwise it is all assumptions... and you know what they say about the word assume...

I have thought about the hacks too but I wanted to hit the owned car database to 0 out all my cars... lol.. of course I looked into it (that data IS stored in your save data) but I havent spent much time with it as its compiled code...

Im started to become more and more disappointed with PD the more time I spend researching because they are either making TONS of physics assumptions or they have something WAY more complex going on to compensate for different suspension types.... Regardless the real life calculations DONT WORK on this game at all! I cant even get those calculations to be stable enough to use... I have done some cars and the result for optimal spring rate gets thrown out as like 82kg/mm.... that and are they really assuming corner weight is set to the center of weight is really centered on the car (not real life either as driver weight and sometimes gas tanks move the weight to one side or the other...)

 

[oppositelock]

I've done such a calculator, there's a link to the thread in my signature. Feel free to use it as a starting point, but please, please don't copy my formulas. I have way too much time and effort invested. My only suggestion is to rethink your driving style option. Slow in/fast out or fast in/slow out is not a driving style, it's a method of taking each individual corner and is determined by how it connects to the corners before and after it.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Whatever happened to the old school way of tuning, by feel and knowledge. Those calculators seem like more trouble than their worth. About a month ago, Motor City Hami explained to me the process of tuning for this game (base to start with, what to tune first, etc) and out of that knowledge I was able to come up with a tune for the current NASCAR TT that has got me 80th on the leaderboard. Not knocking you or your efforts, just saying it seems more troubl than its worth. Now, if it gave you a perfect setup, that would be a different story, but it don't, and I doubt it ever will.

 

[ryanerb]

Well, I did find something really nice... actually a correlation to real world calculations... hmmm... this is a bit interesting now... I think I found the missing puzzle to the real world vs gt.... *** At least in Spring Rate Calculations ***

More time on this is needed from me for sure! If I can get a real world engineering calculation to work in GT undoubtedly that would be something that would help, but wow, I need to cross reference these calculations a bit more

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Well, I did find something really nice... actually a correlation to real world calculations... hmmm... this is a bit interesting now... I think I found the missing puzzle to the real world vs gt.... *** At least in Spring Rate Calculations ***

More time on this is needed from me for sure! If I can get a real world engineering calculation to work in GT undoubtedly that would be something that would help, but wow, I need to cross reference these calculations a bit more

Thats what I mean, an aweful lot of work to go thru just for tuning. Good luck to ya tho.

 

[oppositelock]

Whatever happened to the old school way of tuning, by feel and knowledge. Those calculators seem like more trouble than their worth. About a month ago, Motor City Hami explained to me the process of tuning for this game (base to start with, what to tune first, etc) and out of that knowledge I was able to come up with a tune for the current NASCAR TT that has got me 80th on the leaderboard. Not knocking you or your efforts, just saying it seems more troubl than its worth. Now, if it gave you a perfect setup, that would be a different story, but it don't, and I doubt it ever will.

I don't think anybody's claiming that a calculator is going to give a better result than doing hours of trial and error style testing on each and every car. It's mostly a) an aid for people having a hard time tuning, which seems to be a majority, and b) a massive time saver. It might not give a perfect tune every time, but in 5 minutes I believe you can have a much better tune than stock. I mean, hell if I'm going to spend weeks or months perfecting all 376 cars in my garage (which is a small garage by GT planet standards), I just want to play the damn game!

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I don't think anybody's claiming that a calculator is going to give a better result than doing hours of trial and error style testing on each and every car. It's mostly a) an aid for people having a hard time tuning, which seems to be a majority, and b) a massive time saver. It might not give a perfect tune every time, but in 5 minutes I believe you can have a much better tune than stock. I mean, hell if I'm going to spend weeks or months perfecting all 376 cars in my garage (which is a small garage by GT planet standards), I just want to play the damn game!

I never said anything about one way being better than the other, just that the OP seems to be going to an aweful lot of trouble for this, thats all. Just my opinion, no need to prosecute me, lol.

 

[Highlandor]

To be honest, you really have a long way to go if you are asking others for the calculation methods to develop your tuning tool. Highlandor has done quite a bit around finding the right weight distribution. I've seen a couple of others in these forums as well that try to optimize tuning through calculations.

I wish you luck, but like I said you have a long way to go.

Coool - thanks for that, appreciated 👍



To the OP...

A setup calculator is virtually imposssible, not physically, but realistically, why??

Because the amount of variables you'd need to cater for in order for your calculator to be any more beneficial than what's readily available, it'll take you so long to work this out, GT6 will be out.

That sounds harsh, but it's not, just being honest.

Working out sping rates and roll bars to get fundamental "balance" in nearly every car is pretty easy - the hard part??

How you going to sort out the differences between tyre wear, steering sensitivity differences (not just with pads, but pads Vs wheels), then take into account driving styles too??

Sorry amigo, don't mean to rain on your parade but that's just far too many variables for 1000+ cars, different tracks etc etc etc...

A "perfect" setup for one person could be useless to another, just purely through differences in sensitivity settings, then adding tyre wear etc etc to it - mmmmmm - good luck amigo.

This is why there needs to be a cut off point and why no-one has created (what seems to be) the answer, because to be honest, there isn't one.

I've tuned hundreds of cars online for maybe 150-200+ people, constantly, for the last 10 months+ , that's all I do, every day.

What I've learnt is that everyone is different and there is only so far you can take something like a setup "calculator" before you need to draw the line and say - "it can't be done" - we need to make this tune bespoke for this guy's needs (i.e. tyre wear), driving style and equiptment settings.

This is hard enough when talking to someone in a lobby and explaining things, trying to write something out that can explain it all and how to "fix it"- nope, you got more chance of the Queen of England becoming a porn star.

Even guys who seem to have very similiar driving styles can often disgree quite strongly about "which way to go" with a setup for the exact same car and situation they both have to drive.

If you want to create something basic i.e. a starting point, then again, no offence, that was done a few months back too.

OK - this might have been buried under countless other threads etc etc but there's enough people who have taken this onboard for most to see where to start. If not, there's other "calculators" respected guys like opposite lock have done which'll do the job...

But it's a free world amigo, if you want to go for it, then best of luck, I mean that sincerely, whether you go for something basic or try the full pull. But just don't be under any illusions of just how difficult it can be or where you need to draw the line, otherwise, it'll drive you bonkers!!

Feel free to use the weight distribution technique if you want - it works and is a good starting point for every car (balance) and will save a huge amount of time and headaches for most (both offline and online), and those who haven't a clue, it'll seem like a god send.

Enough guys are using it or parts of it anyway so you might aswell if you want.

If you need more details give me a shout or if you can find something better then very well done to you 👍

Either way - best of luck amigo...

"H"

 

[Johnnypenso]

Whatever happened to the old school way of tuning, by feel and knowledge. Those calculators seem like more trouble than their worth. About a month ago, Motor City Hami explained to me the process of tuning for this game (base to start with, what to tune first, etc) and out of that knowledge I was able to come up with a tune for the current NASCAR TT that has got me 80th on the leaderboard. Not knocking you or your efforts, just saying it seems more troubl than its worth. Now, if it gave you a perfect setup, that would be a different story, but it don't, and I doubt it ever will.

What the OP is looking for is exactly what you got from Motor City Hami, a base to start with, and what to tune first etc. How about sharing that with the OP, like Hami shared it with you? Pay it forward?

Obviously that was not more trouble than it was worth if it got you to 80th on the Leaderboard. He's not looking for perfect just somewhere to start from.

 

[MTLclllutch]

real world tuning setups are infinitely more complex than what we have to deal with in gt5. I posted a nice bullet form list from a professional
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=225733

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

What the OP is looking for is exactly what you got from Motor City Hami, a base to start with, and what to tune first etc. How about sharing that with the OP, like Hami shared it with you? Pay it forward?

Obviously that was not more trouble than it was worth if it got you to 80th on the Leaderboard. He's not looking for perfect just somewhere to start from.

You obviously don't understand the thread and my comments. Once again you have attempted to take an opportunity to try to start stuff with me. Its getting old bro, you really need to stop. The OP is going about tuning using calculations and I simply asked what was wrong with doing it the old school way like I and many others do. He wants to use a calculator and since thats not the way I tune nothing I tell him is gonna help him. And just fyi, Hami didn't give me a tune for the NASCAR TT, he simply explained how to go about tuning like I stated. The tune I'm using is mine, started from scratch like how he taught me. So, I hope this clears it up for you now go find someone else to raz cause I'm really getting tired of it. Every chance you get, you have to try to take a shot at me and its really getting old. Take your elitist attitude somewhere else.

 

[ryanerb]

I totally understand what everyone is saying in this thread. The real world calculations for the suspension alone require several calculations to get to that point.

I also understand that everyone drives different. I cant take every single thing into account when setting this up and of course some may see it as trash, and some may like it. It just adds a different perspective to the mix of those who have "already done this"

I have seen several things that calculate things based off of parameters and ranges that the game has. Thats not real world. Just because the spring rate is can go from 10-15 doesnt mean that you should always set it to 18.5% of its range and divided by the weight on it (not saying I have seen exactly but the point is what I mean).

In real world people use formulas to get their car close and of course then the driver will send feedback to the tuners if the cars too stiff, too loose and the team adjusts that as needed.

Like real world, stock settings are there for comfort and efficiency of the vehicle. VERY FEW cars are set to a performance level stock (both real world AND GT)

For those of you thinking I am wasting my time.... maybe I am, but in this process I am learning proper tuning and setting more than I am disclosing through a thread that I ask for formulas you may be using... I dont get why in my own personal development in both the game that I love and web development, which I do for a living, should ever be considered a waste of time.

Again, who knows... I didnt start this thread to get hit for trying to do something thats "impossible" or "a waste of time"... Nor did I create the thread for praise that this is a good idea either. I started the thread for proper feedback regarding some of the tuning of the car in a calculated form (which several responses DID do). Thats what I want. Not arguments of whats right and wrong. We all do things different and want different things.

At the end of the day, my only desire is to put up a working calculator set on the web... not an XLS sheet... not random calculations posted on a page, but something people can just enter the data and the webserver calculates and spits out the results. I have 8 years of web development experience and enjoy doing complex things like calculators and other things. Thats my purpose and I get to learn some along the way

Thanks for those of you adding information I am looking for or at least adding more to think about.

 

[Motor City Hami]

KBfan is using his tune with input from me to help him make it better for his driving style. He was a quick study and I'm actually a little scared to enter a NASCAR room with him for he'll probably show me up.

I have tried to help this community by putting my method out there - all of it. I post the actual tunes that I drive. If I use a car in the game, I'll share my tune. I am also open to giving advice to people using my tunes to help make it fit their driving. My garage started as a beginner's guide and I think I've put it all there. Starting tunes for the non-tuner, advice for the beginner and now expert advice for the tuner. There are alot of fast tuners on GT Planet and I probably rank somewhere about the middle of the top ten. I'm not the fastest of the tuners, but I would challenge that I have written the best starting point for rookies. If the rookie reads Scaff's Guide made for GT4 and my garage made for GT5, they'll have a good start on learning to tune.

ryanerb - I have a thought for you. You are good with data. Adrenaline has a link to all tunes from GT Planet. In there is the best thinking from all of the tuning garages. I wonder what the similarities are between all 450PP FR cars that have been tuned? Or 550 hp 4WD cars? There could be an interesting database created that records all of that top notch, hand labored tuning knowledge into one place. Draw some conclusions for average setting or most likely coorlation of numbers for different category of cars. That could be your contribution to the tuning community. Build the tuning starting point from the aggregate of all of the tunes from the tuning experts. I think there would be an interesting result?

 

[Johnnypenso]

What the OP is looking for is exactly what you got from Motor City Hami, a base to start with, and what to tune first etc. How about sharing that with the OP, like Hami shared it with you? Pay it forward?

Obviously that was not more trouble than it was worth if it got you to 80th on the Leaderboard. He's not looking for perfect just somewhere to start from.

You obviously don't understand the thread and my comments. Once again you have attempted to take an opportunity to try to start stuff with me. Its getting old bro, you really need to stop. The OP is going about tuning using calculations and I simply asked what was wrong with doing it the old school way like I and many others do. He wants to use a calculator and since thats not the way I tune nothing I tell him is gonna help him. And just fyi, Hami didn't give me a tune for the NASCAR TT, he simply explained how to go about tuning like I stated. The tune I'm using is mine, started from scratch like how he taught me. So, I hope this clears it up for you now go find someone else to raz cause I'm really getting tired of it. Every chance you get, you have to try to take a shot at me and its really getting old. Take your elitist attitude somewhere else.

You are a funny guy KB...lol. All I said was, and I quote it for reference,

"What the OP is looking for is exactly what you got from Motor City Hami, a base to start with, and what to tune first etc. How about sharing that with the OP, like Hami shared it with you? Pay it forward?"

Does that say that Hami gave you a tune as you suggest or a "base to start with" which is my exact words.

You came online looking for help in getting a base tune for Nascar Road Courses and got it, I'm only suggesting you pay the help forward is all. There's nothing sinister in that...lol. If you shared the help you got from Hami, it might give the OP something to start with.

 

[ryanerb]

ryanerb - I have a thought for you. You are good with data. Adrenaline has a link to all tunes from GT Planet. In there is the best thinking from all of the tuning garages. I wonder what the similarities are between all 450PP FR cars that have been tuned? Or 550 hp 4WD cars? There could be an interesting database created that records all of that top notch, hand labored tuning knowledge into one place. Draw some conclusions for average setting or most likely coorlation of numbers for different category of cars. That could be your contribution to the tuning community. Build the tuning starting point from the aggregate of all of the tunes from the tuning experts. I think there would be an interesting result?

Actually... hmmm... lol, that is a great idea I have never even thought of... I very well may move to this direction or side rail into this at least.

This would be something I would need help with as the shear number of cars there are in the game... But I could build the Database and the page to enter data into it... then figure out how to manipulated it for different views need or even maybe use the calculator to work off of existing settings...

This my friend is what I was looking for with this post as well! Even a page with quick searches and the ability for users to enter their tunes they wish to share and some info about them (lap times etc...) makes life easier than sifting through 1000 pages on this site inside a forum...

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

You are a funny guy KB...lol. All I said was, and I quote it for reference,

"What the OP is looking for is exactly what you got from Motor City Hami, a base to start with, and what to tune first etc. How about sharing that with the OP, like Hami shared it with you? Pay it forward?"

Does that say that Hami gave you a tune as you suggest or a "base to start with" which is my exact words.

You came online looking for help in getting a base tune for Nascar Road Courses and got it, I'm only suggesting you pay the help forward is all. There's nothing sinister in that...lol. If you shared the help you got from Hami, it might give the OP something to start with.

Like I said, nothing I say is gonna help the OP because he is looking for help with tuning calculators, he is not looking for a baseline tune or help in tuning the way Hami has helped me. Get it now? Don't mean to get uppity with you, but your not understanding what I'm saying for whatever reason. I CAN'T HELP THE OP, AS I DON'T USE TUNING CALCULATORS. I SIMPLY STATED WHY NOT TUNE WITHOUT THEM. Then you come in to the conversation trying to blast me....again. Not going to argue about this anymore with you with because it has become apparent that you have blinders on and all you want to do is argue with me for whatever reason and I'm done with it. Go play god with someone else.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Actually... hmmm... lol, that is a great idea I have never even thought of... I very well may move to this direction or side rail into this at least.

Here is Adrenaline's link to all GT Planet tunes. https://sites.google.com/site/gt5tune/home

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

KBfan is using his tune with input from me to help him make it better for his driving style. He was a quick study and I'm actually a little scared to enter a NASCAR room with him for he'll probably show me up.

I have tried to help this community by putting my method out there - all of it. I post the actual tunes that I drive. If I use a car in the game, I'll share my tune. I am also open to giving advice to people using my tunes to help make it fit their driving. My garage started as a beginner's guide and I think I've put it all there. Starting tunes for the non-tuner, advice for the beginner and now expert advice for the tuner. There are alot of fast tuners on GT Planet and I probably rank somewhere about the middle of the top ten. I'm not the fastest of the tuners, but I would challenge that I have written the best starting point for rookies. If the rookie reads Scaff's Guide made for GT4 and my garage made for GT5, they'll have a good start on learning to tune.

ryanerb - I have a thought for you. You are good with data. Adrenaline has a link to all tunes from GT Planet. In there is the best thinking from all of the tuning garages. I wonder what the similarities are between all 450PP FR cars that have been tuned? Or 550 hp 4WD cars? There could be an interesting database created that records all of that top notch, hand labored tuning knowledge into one place. Draw some conclusions for average setting or most likely coorlation of numbers for different category of cars. That could be your contribution to the tuning community. Build the tuning starting point from the aggregate of all of the tunes from the tuning experts. I think there would be an interesting result?

Thanks Hami for the compliment but just remember, your the one that created this monster, lol. Seriously tho, you have made this game fun for me again with the knowledge you have given me and I thank you for that my friend. Peace.