Tunisia Beach Attack

[TenEightyOne]

39 people have been killed when (EDIT: at least) 2 gunmen opened fire on a popular tourist beach in Tunisia.

Police say they suspect that fundamentalist militants were behind the attack. This comes shortly after the chemical plant attack in France and the bomb in a Kuwaiti mosque.

 

[JKgo]

...I heard it was 39? Regardless of the number of victims, my condolences and thoughts are with their families.

This could cripple Tunisia's already damaged economy further - not sure the percentage but I thought they depend heavily on tourism to earn foreign currency.

This and last year's museum attack...sigh.

 

[TenEightyOne]

...I heard it was 39? Regardless of the number of victims, my condolences and thoughts are with their families.

This could cripple Tunisia's already damaged economy further - not sure the percentage but I thought they depend heavily on tourism to earn foreign currency.

This and last year's museum attack...sigh.

I edited from 37 to 39 when I saw a news update.

Some factions will be happy to keep Western money out of their countries, I guess it's part of the overall plan for some.

 

[KSaiyu]

Britain was going to be hit as well:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-state-isis-attack-uk-armed-forces-day-parade

 

[Dotini]

Silly tourists, if they really wanted safety they could have vacationed on the French Riviera.

It's amazing what 2 local boys can do with an AK. Tunisia's government says it will close 80 local mosques in response; surely that will make the beaches safer.

 

[KSaiyu]

It's a step. Unfortunately some Mosques are rapidly becoming breeding grounds for radicals, especially those funded from abroad, and they are closing 80 outside governmental control. It's kinda like Austria banning foreign funded Mosques and requiring Imams speak German.

 

[maxi25]

Not trying to be mean or anything but what exactly are they trying to prove? Killing a bunch of people for no good reason does nothing more than turn the world against you. Plus if you have a problem with someone you take it up with them not innocent bystanders. Sometimes I wonder about what goes on inside people's minds.

 

[Dotini]

One person went on a mission with an AK and kills the principal industry of the only remaining survivor of the Arab Spring.

One person holds the destiny of a nation in his hands.

 

[Dennisch]

Most of the big European travelling agencies already have cancelled their flights to Tunisia.

So it looks like this dillhole succeeded in his mission.

 

[KSaiyu]

This is the whole point of terrorism. It will just take one lone gunman to destroy a country's tourism industry. ISIS know this, everyone else should too.

 

[Dotini]

This is the whole point of terrorism. It will just take one lone gunman to destroy a country's tourism industry. ISIS know this, everyone else should too.

Rather subjectively, I feel that it isn't right for one man to structurally be able to determine the fate of nations and the lives of millions world-wide. If civilization is this vulnerable, how can it possibly last?

 

[KSaiyu]

It can't in certain cultures - it's why China has an iron grip on its citizens and the Mid East was held together by dictators. The West didn't understand this, because it naively thought...."we are all equal".

I was going to post a long thing on languages but give the example here.

We spent billions on a war and killed thousands, possibly over a million people in a war called "Operation Iraqi Freedom". The problem was however freedom in Arabic is
حرية
hurriya

This is interpreted by Sufis as the freedom from other bonds so as to be a perfect slave for Allah. It's meaning is completely different to Western ideas of freedom and as such Arab civilisation is not like ours, same as Chinese is different or North Korea etc etc.

And then we look on the Middle East and wonder why a group claiming to be a caliphate is gaining ground day by day.

 

[Dotini]

It can't in certain cultures - it's why China has an iron grip on its citizens and the Mid East was held together by dictators. The West didn't understand this, because it naively thought...."we are all equal".

Well, I'm more or less with you on the first sentence. The 2nd sentence is a bit of an oversimplification, IMO. But not bad for a snappy one-liner.

 

[A2K78]

It's a step. Unfortunately some Mosques are rapidly becoming breeding grounds for radicals, especially those funded from abroad, and they are closing 80 outside governmental control. It's kinda like Austria banning foreign funded Mosques and requiring Imams speak German.

I'm not a muslim, but don't blame the mosque, let alone imams for radicalizing people. The real radicalization is being done by the west, the US and Britian in particular.

 

[KSaiyu]

I'm not a muslim, but don't blame the mosque, let alone imams for radicalizing people. The real radicalization is being done by the west, the US and Britian in particular.

Unfortunately that's what we're meant to believe, but is far from the truth. Certain mosques are indelibly linked with terrorism

If you want to investigate further in terms of the UK I'd look up the Deobandi sect, and read the book "Medina in Birmingham, Najaf in Brent". I've also posted quite a bit on the topic.

 

[sesselpupser]

I'd look up the Deobandi sect

You're using the Daily Mail as a source of facts?

 

[Dotini]

Overnight the BBC radio announced at least 30 of the dead were British. Cameron said ISIS poses an existential threat to Britain, but when pressed by a BBC reporter to say when the British attack comes that eliminates ISIS's existence in this existential war, Cameron climbed way down from any such idea.

 

[Dennisch]

There is footage of unarmed hotel staff and tourists chasing the still armed assailant.

That requires some heavy stones to do.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Remember seeing a TV advert the day before about Tunisia. Really heartbreaking seeing this the following day. My condolences to the families affected and the country. It is good to see how brave the tourists and staff are, keeping the faith in humanity and sending out a strong message to these cowardly terrorists.

 

[ECGadget]

Agreed. Those tourists and staff have more guts than possibly a lot of us here, and my thoughts are with those families, especially one where only the sixteen year old survived the attack.

 

[Dennisch]

This last couple of days shows how deeply rotten our society has become.

The bomb in the Kuwaiti mosque doesn't have a thread.

Almost 40 people killed in Tunisia and we're still on page 1 of the discussion.

1 person gets murdered in Europe. Plenty of attention.

 

[KSaiyu]

 

[Dennisch]

Disregard.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The West didn't understand this, because it naively thought...."we are all equal".

Wrong again, as usual.

Following the Second World War, there were a few attempts at getting democracy to take hold in the Middle East, most notably in Iran. However, the newly-elected Prime Minister wanted to renegotiate the deal between Iran and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corporation - now BP - to get a better deal for Iran. When AIOC refused, the Iranians attempted to nationalise the oil industry. Since this went against Western interests, cutting off a major supply of oil, the British and American governments orchestrated a coup in 1953, removing the democratically-elected government and replacing it with the Shah, who was much more willing to allow the AIOC to return under the same terms as they had originally operated under, and much more authoritarian. Meanwhile, Britain and America continued to promote democracy as the highest form of political thought. This was interpreted as "democracy is good, but only if it's on our terms", with the West happily betraying that if it was in their interests to do so.

So it wasn't a case of left-aligned governments chasing that warm and fuzzy feeling at all. Rather, it was right-aligned governments holding Middle Eastern nations to a different standard to that which they held themselves.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This last couple of days shows how deeply rotten our society has become.

The bomb in the Kuwaiti mosque doesn't have a thread.

Almost 40 people killed in Tunisia and we're still on page 1 of the discussion.

1 person gets murdered in Europe. Plenty of attention.

I think it is more to do with that thread being used to talk about all three but usually most of discussions seem to turn out to be about KSaiyu's mindset.

 

[Dotini]

I think it is more to do with that thread being used to talk about all three but usually most of discussions seem to turn out to be about KSaiyu's mindset.

I like KSaiyu; he shows spunk, energy, passion, rare talent, resilience and insight. But he is verbose, hasty, overambitious, etc., typical faults in a young man. He would do better if his citations were more acceptable to liberals and libertarians, focused more, and posted less.

 

[A2K78]

Unfortunately that's what we're meant to believe, but is far from the truth. Certain mosques are indelibly linked with terrorism

If you want to investigate further in terms of the UK I'd look up the Deobandi sect, and read the book "Medina in Birmingham, Najaf in Brent". I've also posted quite a bit on the topic.

You miss the whole point of what I'm talking about, but western governments are the ones radicalizing muslims and why? For starters they are supporting brutal regimes in the middle east. Then there is the blind, stupid support for Israel....

Michael Schurer said it right...

 

[LeMansAid]

I like KSaiyu; he shows spunk, energy, passion, rare talent, resilience and insight. But he is verbose, hasty, overambitious, etc., typical faults in a young man. He would do better if his citations were more acceptable to liberals and libertarians, focused more, and posted less.

It could be seen as a microcosm of what happens on a broader scale. People need to be heard, and often told that while their approach and conclusions may not be, their concerns are justified. However, unfortunately we're surrounded by micro and macro absolutism, unbending and unsympathetic.

Your unique voice is appreciated.

 

[KSaiyu]

We don't really speak about it, partly because our leader has told us we shouldn't refer to our enemies as Islamic State but really because we are scared. I'm not giving my opinions about the former in this thread since I don't want it to turn into the macabre equivalent of gamer gate and only say that I hope we have the full list of the dead soon and verify reports of a second gunman.

Our newspaper comments sections are full of very un-PC assessments, and this spans the Left to Right spectrum (Guardian, Daily Mail, Independent etc)

 

[Dotini]

It could be seen as a microcosm of what happens on a broader scale. People need to be heard, and often told that while their approach and conclusions may not be, their concerns are justified. However, unfortunately we're surrounded by micro and macro absolutism, unbending and unsympathetic.

Your unique voice is appreciated.

Ideally, I think we ought to be sensitive to the concerns of every participant of the forum who will view our post, as well as to the concerns of the people whose posts we read. This will help to build understanding and trust. However, nobody's perfect and it's often a matter of trial and error to advance to the level where you can play well but respectfully with those you don't entirely agree with.