turbo?

[tractionsport]

does any one else kinda feel wierd about how lots of people think that turbo cars are good for drifting? LIke if you think about it seems like that the car needs a good balance of power though its whole power band... and a turbo gives you a very strange turbo band, like 4000+ rpm it gross rapid but in car with out a turbo the power band could go more straight though a gear no peeks at certain rpm levels?

 

[exhaust_note]

if u ever watched inital D, they go over this, a NA car is better in the corners becasue of the instant reaction time, but a turbo car is better on the striaghts and doesn't have to worry about turbo lag, but a small sized turbo, with quick spool up would be the best 4 a drift car since u don't need much power but low edn tourqe helps

 

[bengee]

I think exhaust basically summed everything up... The game is not like real life by the way. In the game drifting a turbo, supercharged, or na car feels about the same whether you use manual or auto... turbo lag isnt apparent...

 

[exhaust_note]

the only car ive noticed with huge turbo lag is the escudo, its slow as balls until about 5-6000 rpm

 

[LanEvo]

generally an N/A car doesn't produce very much torque(though there are many exceptions) race engine often sacrifice that low end torque for high rpm power. in an N/A application..you dont even feel power till after 5,000rpm, whereas on a turbo you feel power as soon as the turbo is spooled (small turbochargers can spool anywhere from 1,500 to 3,000 rpm, giving power much sooner) turbo lag isn't that big of an issue anyway, especially on gran turismo where its almost nonexistant. as for my real life drift car, im stayin N/A due to the rotaries excellent power across the band, unlike N/A piston engines

 

[pergatory]

Originally posted by exhaust_note
the only car ive noticed with huge turbo lag is the escudo, its slow as balls until about 5-6000 rpm

That's not really turbo lag so much as a really high spool-up point. Turbo lag is where you floor it and don't get power immediately, it takes a short amount of time for the turbo to build up pressure because it's powered by the exhaust. It's barely noticable unless you are pushing serious boost. Whereas, spool-up issues in general usually arise below a certain RPM where the engine simply isn't pushing enough exhaust to spool the turbo so no matter how long you floor it, it won't spool up until you reach that certain RPM.

Turbo lag was not encorporated into GT3 at all, since it is nearly impossible to calculate. So complicated that in choosing a turbo, tuners usually don't even bother to figure it out, so why would GT3? It would probably slow the game way down.

As for the original question, turbos are good for drifting. Forced induction provides more usable traction. In other words, the burn inside the cylinder is spread more evenly across the power stroke so that there are less spikes of power to the wheels as each piston fires. The result is that you can put more power to the ground using the same amount of traction (especially in drifts or burnouts where traction is almost non-existant). Superchargers provide the same effect. Rotaries are also known to have a slight usable torque advantage over piston engines, so theoretically the best drift engine would be a supercharged rotary. No lag or spool-up problems, with maximum usable traction.

 

[pergatory]

Oh, I forgot to add that I don't know if usable traction is actually encorporated into GT3 because it's often overlooked. In fact, it's been my experience that most people have never heard of it (I'm not talking about the riceboys either).

 

[exhaust_note]

full mod an Escudo and then u see there is turbo lag

 

[pergatory]

I've done it, there's no lag. It won't spool up below about 6500 RPM but that's not turbo lag. Anything over that spool-up point though will give instant response.

Just so you know, the spool-up point is created by the airflow through the engine reaching the point where the pressure ratio can be maintained without exceeding the surge limit of the turbo. (The dotted line on the top-left side of the turbo's compressor map.)

 

[exhaust_note]

exactly, if the turbo won't spool up, is that not called turbo lag

 

[bengee]

Turbo lag is when a turbo will not give you power when its engine speed where the turbo will condense the air to desired pressure. This occurs because while the engine is above the correct engine speed... if the engine is revved to fast the air cannot condense instantaneously... it takes time for it to reach the desired pressure... The amount of time depends on turbine size... engine speed (which gives exhaust gas velocity and therefore impeller and turbine speed)... the velocity and density of the air entering the turbine... and the density and amount of air within the turbine itself initially...

 

[battle_stage]

I built a 8017hp Camaro SS once and it had insane turbo lag. Once it hit like 8000rpm it was near impossible to control the throttle, but anything under that was a crawl.

 

[exhaust_note]

i was under the beleif that the time that it took for the turbo to spool up enough to acctually compress air into the engine is turbo lag, since w/ a small turbo there is un noticable turbo lag because it is spinning fast enough to compress air, w/ a large turbo, u need more RPM's so there is more exhaust going through exhaust side to spinn such a large turbine and compress air on the compressor side - and that took me about an hour to type so please give me a good answer cause i broke my collar bone and can only type with my left hand

 

[pergatory]

Ouch, that's a bum deal exhaust_note. I feel your pain. Anyway, that is not turbo lag. Turbo lag is what bengee was describing where the air cannot compress immediately. Since the turbo is exhaust powered, it can only add a certain amount of boost relative to the amount of exhaust coming out. So it works like this: you push the gas pedal, throttle body opens, lets more air in. More air goes into the engine, more exhaust comes out. More exhaust pushes the turbo faster, and turbo pushes even more air in. Even more air goes in, even more exhaust comes out and pushes the turbo even harder. So it takes a short time for the process to repeat, for the turbo to build up boost, even if you are above that certain RPM point where the turbo boosts hard (the spool-up point).

 

[bengee]

Exactly... i was gonna say something but i decided not to continue the discussion

how did you break your collar bone?

 

[battle_stage]

Playing hockey. I don't know the details, just that it's a hairline fracture.

 

[bengee]

Oh... thats not that bad... I broke both of my wrist lol once... that sucked

 

[battle_stage]

I broke both bones in my forarm just under my wrist. My hand was dangling.

 

[bengee]

lol... that must have hurt... the wrost i have ever seen was a prtuding and twisted elbow on a snowboarder... by the way i broke my wrists boarding... my front end dug into an invisible bank of soft snow on a diamond run and i fell a lil bit... and landed on my hands upside down... that was fun stuff

 

[battle_stage]

It actually didn't hurt that bad but getting them set HURT LIKE A B*TCH. When the doctor was setting the bones, he only put pain killers in the left bone but put none in the other. They tied my arm down with my fingers hanging from these fingertraps on a IV rack, then all I heard was cracking of my arm being set. THAT hurt. But I was a big boy and didn't cry. lol






I broke it skateboarding when I was like 12 or 13.

 

[bengee]

the worst injury i have ever had while skating was falling off on a downhill on my mini long board... rolling like 50-100 feet and ending up against the gaurd rail lol... that was a real downhill tho... it was up in hte berkeley hills by the lawrence hall of science for anyone who know that area... thank god not many cars drive up there on some roads lol... or i would have ended up uinder one...

 

[pergatory]

I was skateboarding once and got nailed by a friend on a bmx (blind corner, and bad luck). I popped out just in front of him, and we were both mid-air. He plowed right through me, that bike was heavy as hell! Landed on... head, of all things.. needed staples in the back and still have scars on my left knee & elbow. Can't really see the scar on the head cuz it's covered by hair. That's about my worst skateboarding story. No bad snowboard stories except I watched my dad break his leg once. His ski caught a rut and his leg just all of a sudden went another direction from the rest of his body...

 

[exhaust_note]

i understand it now, yeah, only my left hand works, and i still have to get an MRI cause i went to the docs. today and he said i might have tourn somethng in my shoulder too.

 

[trd_celica_jdm]

....werd....

 

[Ethix101]

I've been sooooo lucky with my lack of serious injuries.. It's probably because I'm a big mofo hehe, but I used to ride bmx all the time, street and dirt and I never broke anything. I crashed probably 5 times per day and that was doing 15ft dirt jumps and stuff and I never once got more than a twisted ankle or bruises and cuts. I ride motocross bikes for fun now and I still haven't broken anything (knock on wood) even though I've crashed a few times and had the bike (220lb bike) land on me. As for snowboarding...I went one time and I sucked really bad..I think I spent more time with my face planted in the snow than I did actually up on the board, though I may try again this winter just because I have a couple friends that do it..


oh yeah..little funny snowboarding story from my 1 time...it was the first time i was going up the lift and my friend Ryan had showed me how you keep one foot on the board and the other foot off so that it's easier to get off the lift when you get to the top...well there was a kid alone in the lift in front of us who obviously didn't know that because he had both foot in so when he got to the top of the hill, instead turning the board so it was facing up the hill (so you can just slide right off the lift and down this tiny hill to where flat part at the top of the beginner hill was) he had the board horizontal to the hill so as soon as it touched the snow it dug in and it dragged him off the chair and he face planted into the ground..haha..then he tried to lift his head and the chair hit him in the back of it and knocked him out hahaha. So here I am sitting in the next lift chair thing behind him waiting for them to scrape him out of the snow thinking a) oh Sh** glad that wasn't me.. and b) oh Sh** I still have to get off...that could still be me. hehe.

 

[bengee]

that sucks for that kid

getting off always sucks when there are less experienced people cause they clog up the ramp and you have not where to go except on there spralling bodies...

ramps suck anyways cause most of the time they are too steep... and its harder than you think to board with only your front foot... you use your back foot for most steering... i alwalys pant my foot on the board... wait the ramp out and then let my foot scrape the smow like i am stopping my skate board lol...

The best story i have is when i was starting out a while back i cartwheeling into some couple lol... whoops... that was funny thank god my board didnt hit them first

Anyways you should have been spending more of your time on your ass than on your face... you are gonna hurt yourself if you dont fall on you ass rather than on your knees... take a class man it will be easier to learn

 

[Ethix101]

Originally posted by bengee


Anyways you should have been spending more of your time on your ass than on your face... you are gonna hurt yourself if you dont fall on you ass rather than on your knees... take a class man it will be easier to learn

yeah I spent a lot of time on my ass too haha. I'll probably take lessons next time, the only reason I didn't last time was because I went with my friend and he was supposed to show me how, but he wasn't real patient and kept getting irritated so I eventually told him to just go do his own thing and kept trying on my own...I managed to make it down the beginner hill a couple of times with out falling, but by that time I was so numb from falling that I couldn't feel anything hehe.

 

[Alpha_32]

NO.

 

[bengee]

hmmmm.... ok..... thanks for the info alpha

 

[Ethix101]

ok...very informative