TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00

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BlueShift

BlueShift

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BlueShift
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TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00

Cylinder : 7730 cm3
Power : 1041 hp @ 6900 rpm
Torque : 1160 Nm @ 5500 rpm
Transmission : FR
Weigth : 1020 kg

Weigth-to-power ratio : 0.979

Weigth balance (guessed) : 62%/38%
Stock ride height : 71mm

993.8 km mileage road setup.

---

Well, well, well.

MON-MON-MONSTER CAR !

Let's look her tires. Front is 285mm large, m'kay, rear is 345mm, ouch.

Okay, now let's look at the engine... Speed 6's engines are powerful. TVR put two Speed 6 engines on this one... And it's a brand new V12, hence the name.

During TVR's concept phase, she had so much strength that she broke the nanometer bank.
IRL, as all TVR's cars, she have no driving aids at all, not even an simple ABS. That car was so wild that even Peter Wheeler, TVR's boss, feared it : the Speed 12 never acheived production phase.

Fearful beast, hey ? Let's tame her.

Any comments, improvements or suggestions are welcome.

---

All parts/oil change

Body/Chassis
- Dynamics (Front/Rear) : 35 / 55

Transmission
- Top Speed : 440 km/h (for ~387 true km/h)

Drive-train
Adjustable LSD (Front/Rear)
- Initial Torque : -/30
- Acceleration Sensitivity : -/38
- Braking Sensitivity : -/22

Torque Sensing Center Differential (Front/Rear)
- Torque Split : -/-

Suspension
Suspension (Front/Rear)
- Ride Height : -6/-6
- Spring Rate : 20.0/12.3
- Dampers (Extension) : 5/6
- Dampers (Compression) : 8/8
- Anti-Roll Bars : 6/4

Wheel Alignment (Front/Rear)
- Camber angle : -3.4/-1.6
- Toe Angle : +0.0/+0.12 (bah, she got me.)

Brakes (Front/Rear)
- Brake Balance 6/4

Drive aids
ABS 1 else all off (got you !)

Tires
- Racing Soft/Soft mandatory.

Tuning circuit
- Rome - 1'03.xxx.
- Deep Forest - 1'11.599
- High Speed Ring - 0'59.131
- La Sarthe 2009/no chicane - 3'23.035
- Midfield (hahaha, in GT4)

Tips
- She can brake, but understeers. So, brake a little sooner.
- She oversteer at ends of curves. Remember, you're using a 1041 hp car, V12, with no driving aids but ABS 1, so be cool with the accel. She's still stable somehow but you should do a few laps, to learn her driving, around a track you know by heart.
- She never autoturns sadly. By suspension, just quite the beginning. She's still understeering. It's one of the untamable beasts, my personal K2 after the Yellowbird. In GT4, 5 years ago, I remember trying to setup her around Midfield for 2 full days long.
Today, I still didn't succeed taming her at 100% of what I would have wanted : this car need badly 28kg in front !! I'm still happy somehow by the result.
- Try a RH of +6/+6 if you feel she's loose. Math tells it's a good RH for the SR I choosed, but at that height, she oversteer a little more.. Try and tell me ! Anyway, if you change RH, don't forget it's a flat setup. RH should be same/same.
- She can donut on her lenght. :D
- Races vs Zonda LM should be interesting. With no drivng aids, you win. With driving helps on a slow track the zonda wins.

Back to the GT5 shop
 
Last edited:
Hey BlueShift,

I just picked up the TVR last night and quickly went to my test track, High Speed Ring. I ran a 1:01, but there is room for improvement. I'll try your setup tonight to see if I can do better.

The car is real fast, but I was shocked how "bad" it handled. I figured with its lightweight chassis it would be easier to drive.
 
BlueShift
Back to the shop

TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00

Cylinder : 7730 cm3
Power : 1041 hp @ 6900 rpm
Torque : 1160 Nm @ 5500 rpm
Transmission : FR
Weigth : 1020 kg

Weigth-to-power ratio : 0.979

Weigth balance (guessed) : 62%/38%
Stock ride height : 71mm

993.8 km mileage road setup.

---

Well, well, well.

MON-MON-MONSTER CAR !

Let's look her tires. Front is 285mm large, m'kay, rear is 345mm, ouch.

Okay, now let's look at the engine... Speed 6's engines are powerful. TVR put two Speed 6 engines on this one... And it's a brand new V12, hence the name.

During TVR's concept phase, she had so much strength that she broke the nanometer bank.
IRL, as all TVR's cars, she have no driving aids at all, not even an simple ABS. That car was so wild that even Peter Wheeler, TVR's boss, feared it : the Speed 12 never acheived production phase.

Fearful beast, hey ? Let's tame her.

Any comments, improvements or suggestions are welcome.

---

All parts/oil change

Body/Chassis
- Dynamics (Front/Rear) : 35 / 55

Transmission
- Top Speed : 440 km/h (for ~387 true km/h)

Drive-train
Adjustable LSD (Front/Rear)
- Initial Torque : -/30
- Acceleration Sensitivity : -/38
- Braking Sensitivity : -/22

Torque Sensing Center Differential (Front/Rear)
- Torque Split : -/-

Suspension
Suspension (Front/Rear)
- Ride Height : -6/-6
- Spring Rate : 20.0/12.3
- Dampers (Extension) : 5/6
- Dampers (Compression) : 8/8
- Anti-Roll Bars : 6/4

Wheel Alignment (Front/Rear)
- Camber angle : -3.4/-1.6
- Toe Angle : +0.0/+0.12 (bah, she got me.)

Brakes (Front/Rear)
- Brake Balance 6/4

Drive aids
ABS 1 else all off (got you !)

Tires
- Racing Soft/Soft mandatory.

Tuning circuit
- Rome - 1'03.xxx.
- Deep Forest - 1'11.599
- High Speed Ring - 0'59.131
- La Sarthe 2009/no chicane - 3'23.035
- Midfield (hahaha, in GT4)

Tips
- She can brake, but understeers. So, brake a little sooner.
- She oversteer at ends of curves. Remember, you're using a 1041 hp car, V12, with no driving aids but ABS 1, so be cool with the accel. She's still stable somehow but you should do a few laps, to learn her driving, around a track you know by heart.
- She never autoturns sadly. By suspension, just quite the beginning. She's still understeering. It's one of the untamable beasts, my personal K2 after the Yellowbird. In GT4, 5 years ago, I remember trying to setup her around Midfield for 2 full days long.
Today, I still didn't succeed taming her at 100% of what I would have wanted : this car need badly 28kg in front !! I'm still happy somehow by the result.
- Try a RH of +6/+6 if you feel she's loose. Math tells it's a good RH for the SR I choosed, but at that height, she oversteer a little more.. Try and tell me ! Anyway, if you change RH, don't forget it's a flat setup. RH should be same/same.
- She can donut on her lenght. :D
- Races vs Zonda LM should be interesting. With no drivng aids, you win. With driving helps on a slow track the zonda wins.

Back to the shop
Click to expand...

Here's what Ive come up with after checking and trying out your tune.

Downforce 35/50
Trans 480
LSD 5/60/20
Ride Height -30/-20
Spring Rate 15.0/15.0
Ext 8/8
Comp 7/7
ARB 4/4

Camber 3.0/1.0
Toe -0.50/0.20

I use RS tires on front and RM on the back, Helps to kick the back end out and drift a bit if you're like me and like to have some fun ;)

Ride Height is set low because doing so stiffens the springs allowing me to drop the spring rate.

The LSD is like that so it locks up fast and helps keep the car to go where you want it to, The spring rate in the rear is harder because it helps oversteer when entering corners alot as well as making the front not max, 15 seemed good after many tries.

The ARB is loose because I usually set it at 6 but this car tends to grab so hard when sliding if its set high that it always causes snap oversteer especially trying to come out of a drift

Toe is massively - in the front to deal with the huge steering sensitivity problem this car has as well as dealing with the +20 in the rear to keep the car stable under heavy acceleration, it helps A LOT.

Ive managed a few 57~ laps with er on HSR but I usually sit around where you're at. It can do <6:50 at Nordschleife.

I can say that this will make the car handle AMAZING and make the steering a lot more sensitive


This is my favourite car and has been since the day I got this game as well as the ZZII, amazing car, have mine painted in Matte Black damn its sexy ;)
 
Poppins
Ride Height is set low because doing so stiffens the springs allowing me to drop the spring rate.
Click to expand...
You're wrong, this is the opposite.

SR's unit is kg per mm. Less mm = less kg if you don't change the SR.

I have 20kg.mm-1 with 71 - 6 = 65mm. I have 20*65 = 1300kg under front train.

You have 15kg.mm-1 with 71 - 30 = 41mm. You have 15*41 = 615kg under front train, it's not even the weigth of your car at front when the car isn't racing so imagine braking this 1020kg car from 300km/h to 100km/h.
I'm 110 % sure your car smokes when braking in any conditions because your tires will hit your ride. This car is ~62%/38%, that makes 632.4kg in front while not moving. Your front train can support 615kg. Bug.
And since you car hit the ride, you should have random rolling movements when playing with the accel/brake, am I wrong ?

In rear you have 71 -20 = 51mm, *15kg.mm-1 = 765kg (hence your "rear train harder than front's", like you said). You shouldn't see a lot of spark when accelerating, but that explain your lower rear aero.

Now, just play around High speed ring, what speed do you get in the last curve ? I get 210km/h before my car lost the curve. This is because you have more kg in rear than in front. You should follow the natural front/rear weigth to perfectly behaves in curves.

Also, you have Ext > Comp. Ext is yet helped by your 15kg springs allready + comp.
==> Ext + your 15kg should be = to Comp. If ext > comp, you can't.

Like I said, put a spring on the table.
Push it, then release it.
If you release it too fast, it will jump. If you push it too fast, there's no problems. Hence ext should be set low and comp not (Comp should always be > ext, like in GT1, GT2, GT3 AND GT4).

Toe... I won't comment because I really don't like any toe on my car and if I put some, it's a failure. But here you used that to compensate all the bad things you got by inverting front/rear weight under your springs.

I hope you don't read me "harsh", english is not my native language... If it helps, try reading me with an horrible french accent ! :)
 
Last edited:
Wow, thanks alot for the help, I realize what youre saying now in the fact that if spring rates set too low and ride height as well it will bottom out all the time, I upped the front to 20kg/mm and the RH in the front to -20 as well which puts me at 20x51 = 1020kg ;)

Rear I upped as well though to 17 but dropped the ride height in the back to -20 as well and set the EXT to 7, might try at 6 and see how it works.

Leaving ARB at 4/4 though because if it set it differently it tends to grab really weird when im sliding.


Thank you though.
 
Last edited:
Im surprised I understood what you meant, it took me a good 15 minutes of reading it over, But I see what you mean with EXT too, it has to be lower so your wheels can go down easier and stay on the ground, but I NEED this car to have negative toe because It just has such a poor turning radius in real life and they obviously made it the same in game.

Ill post my new tune.

Here it is. Runs <1:00 at HSR all day.

Downforce 35/40
Trans 480
LSD 5/60/15
Ride Height -20/-20
Spring Rate 20.0/17.0
Ext 6/6
Comp 8/8
ARB 4/4

Camber 3.0/1.0
Toe -0.50/0.20


Thanks a lot for the help. You really helped me with braking.
 
Last edited:
Hey BlueShift, very interested in your suspension tuning techniques. Not really worried about the car at hand (Speed 12), but just in general. You're Comp>Ext is a very interesting argument, definitely going to give that a shot and see how it works. What I am most interested in at this point is the method you use to select your spring rates, can you elaborate on that a bit? Also, I usually use the anti-roll bars to counteract spring pressure. In other words, tighter front springs = softer front roll bars / softer rear springs = tighter rear roll bars.

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I think I have suspension tuning pretty well figured out, but it never hurts to look into something else.
 
87lc2
What I am most interested in at this point is the method you use to select your spring rates, can you elaborate on that a bit?
Click to expand...
I can perfectly tell about this now, I just replied a PM asking about this. The car of the competition have been selected and she's 2010. I'll make a better post explaining it all in detail.

Here we go, "secret" givaway : it involves having GT4 + a really really complete savegame of GT4 (I was collecting them) and a PS2. True RH of most cars (~800 cars) are the same in GT5.

In GT5 it's relative RH, like in GT3.

This is car builder data, not PD's, so there's no reason that PD invent theirs or massively change their database from GT4.

87lc2
Also, I usually use the anti-roll bars to counteract spring pressure.
Click to expand...
For me, and I can be wrong, it's not their main utility.

87lc2
In other words, tighter front springs = softer front roll bars / softer rear springs = tighter rear roll bars.
Click to expand...
If you allready balance your springs by weigth ratio, you will have with the method I used the same ratio for AR bars.
Because you shouldn't see the spring alone (it's in kg per milimeter), you should see their force in kg which is :
("true RH" (stock) + relative RH in GT5) * spring => this gives you a result in kg. And with the balancing method you set it in the same weigth ratio as the car.

This way, imagine being @200km/h in a curve. The main force on your car is, if we neglect aero (I try to use aero "push" in the same weigth ratio so I again can neglect that), the centrifugal force push again, by your weigth ratio.

I think the main tuning part left is ARoll bars, to resist that force. It should be again, reflecting your weigth ratio.

That's only what I found, and I found too that works really great for that speed in curve : for exemple this cerbera can hold 210km/h in last HSR curve, that's pretty good, even if you look at cars like Zonda.

Now, if you can be quicker in curve, you need to slow down less before that curve, and get away of it faster too => hence best times :)
 
Last edited:
Poppins
Wow, thanks alot for the help, I realize what youre saying now in the fact that if spring rates set too low and ride height as well it will bottom out all the time, I upped the front to 20kg/mm and the RH in the front to -20 as well which puts me at 20x51 = 1020kg ;)

Rear I upped as well though to 17 but dropped the ride height in the back to -20 as well and set the EXT to 7, might try at 6 and see how it works.

Leaving ARB at 4/4 though because if it set it differently it tends to grab really weird when im sliding.


Thank you though.
Click to expand...

BlueShift
You're wrong, this is the opposite.

SR's unit is kg per mm. Less mm = less kg if you don't change the SR.

I have 20kg.mm-1 with 71 - 6 = 65mm. I have 20*65 = 1300kg under front train.

You have 15kg.mm-1 with 71 - 30 = 41mm. You have 15*41 = 615kg under front train, it's not even the weigth of your car at front when the car isn't racing so imagine braking this 1020kg car from 300km/h to 100km/h.
I'm 110 % sure your car smokes when braking in any conditions because your tires will hit your ride. This car is ~62%/38%, that makes 632.4kg in front while not moving. Your front train can support 615kg. Bug.
And since you car hit the ride, you should have random rolling movements when playing with the accel/brake, am I wrong ?

In rear you have 71 -20 = 51mm, *15kg.mm-1 = 765kg (hence your "rear train harder than front's", like you said). You shouldn't see a lot of spark when accelerating, but that explain your lower rear aero.

Now, just play around High speed ring, what speed do you get in the last curve ? I get 210km/h before my car lost the curve. This is because you have more kg in rear than in front. You should follow the natural front/rear weigth to perfectly behaves in curves.

Also, you have Ext > Comp. Ext is yet helped by your 15kg springs allready + comp.
==> Ext + your 15kg should be = to Comp. If ext > comp, you can't.

Like I said, put a spring on the table.
Push it, then release it.
If you release it too fast, it will jump. If you push it too fast, there's no problems. Hence ext should be set low and comp not (Comp should always be > ext, like in GT1, GT2, GT3 AND GT4).

Toe... I won't comment because I really don't like any toe on my car and if I put some, it's a failure. But here you used that to compensate all the bad things you got by inverting front/rear weight under your springs.

I hope you don't read me "harsh", english is not my native language... If it helps, try reading me with an horrible french accent ! :)
Click to expand...

Interesting theory there..

If the car weighs 1020kg.. and 'supposedly' has 62/38 weight distribution. Why would your suspension need to support 1300kg.. when the car doesn't even weigh 1300kg..

Personally.. I would've used around 750-850kg for the front.
 
itstheDRE4M
If the car weighs 1020kg.. and 'supposedly' has 62/38 weight distribution. Why would your suspension need to support 1300kg.. when the car doesn't even weigh 1300kg..
Click to expand...
Kinetic energy ;)

5% of the time this setup hit the ride at very strong braking and turning. All the kinetic energy goes to the front external tires.
You can see it if you play like me from the hood view (smoke from front tires).
 
Last edited:
BlueShift
Kinetic energy ;)

5% of the time this setup hit the ride at very strong braking and turning. All the kinetic energy goes to the front external tires.
You can see it if you play like me from the hood view (smoke from front tires).
Click to expand...


20kg.mm-1 with 71 - 6 = 65mm. I have 20*65 = 1300kg under front train.



Where do you get 71mm from??
 
itstheDRE4M
20kg.mm-1 with 71 - 6 = 65mm. I have 20*65 = 1300kg under front train.



Where do you get 71mm from??
Click to expand...

I believe he is getting it from his GT4 tuning database, where they gave the actual ride heights of the cars, rather than the "relative" values we get in GT5.

It would be outstanding if there were any way to get the values for all of the cars, would take the guesswork out of setting up spring rates.
 
itstheDRE4M
20kg.mm-1 with 71 - 6 = 65mm. I have 20*65 = 1300kg under front train.



Where do you get 71mm from??
Click to expand...
Read the post #12, I explain it. It's from GT4 on a PS2 (stock rh settings of the adjustable springs part on a speed 12 in that game).

I'll make a Dogma thread about how I setup cars anyway, this will be in.
 
Last edited:
BlueShift
Read the post #12, I explain it. It's from GT4 on a PS2 (stock rh settings of the adjustable springs part on a speed 12 in that game).

I'll make a Dogma thread about how I setup cars anyway, this will be in.
Click to expand...
Yeah but even searching the net I can't find a Stock Ride Height for a C6 Z06... Yeah you can't lower it anyway, but it's necessary to know.
 
Yeah you cant kill it on SSR7 anyways, TGTT is another story ;)

the way he tunes it is fairly simple from what i figured out, he has the actual ride height of the car and calculates what his spring rate needs to be based on how much the car weighs and its actual weight balace in real life, so he has the front able to support over 1000 kg and the rear about 600 to reflect making it ride the same front and back, and anti roll bars only really tighten up how much the car moves side to side, how he has it is good (6 in front for tightness and keeping the heavy front end stable and letting it turn easy, and 4 in the rear to let the light rear end move around a bit more so it doesnt slide out super easy but if you still want it to you can gun it and get it out.)

oh and after another long while playing with my fav car and your tuning help ive gotten this.

even closer to yours >.>

Downforce 35/60
Trans 480
LSD 10/60/35
Ride Height 0/0
Spring Rate 20.0/13.0
Ext 6/6
Comp 8/8
ARB 6/4

Camber 2.0/0.0
Toe -0.10/0.20
 
Last edited:
BlueShift
Back to the shop

TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00

Cylinder : 7730 cm3
Power : 1041 hp @ 6900 rpm
Torque : 1160 Nm @ 5500 rpm
Transmission : FR
Weigth : 1020 kg

Weigth-to-power ratio : 0.979

Weigth balance (guessed) : 62%/38%
Stock ride height : 71mm

993.8 km mileage road setup.

---

Well, well, well.

MON-MON-MONSTER CAR !

Let's look her tires. Front is 285mm large, m'kay, rear is 345mm, ouch.

Okay, now let's look at the engine... Speed 6's engines are powerful. TVR put two Speed 6 engines on this one... And it's a brand new V12, hence the name.

During TVR's concept phase, she had so much strength that she broke the nanometer bank.
IRL, as all TVR's cars, she have no driving aids at all, not even an simple ABS. That car was so wild that even Peter Wheeler, TVR's boss, feared it : the Speed 12 never acheived production phase.

Fearful beast, hey ? Let's tame her.

Any comments, improvements or suggestions are welcome.

---

All parts/oil change

Body/Chassis
- Dynamics (Front/Rear) : 35 / 55

Transmission
- Top Speed : 440 km/h (for ~387 true km/h)

Drive-train
Adjustable LSD (Front/Rear)
- Initial Torque : -/30
- Acceleration Sensitivity : -/38
- Braking Sensitivity : -/22

Torque Sensing Center Differential (Front/Rear)
- Torque Split : -/-

Suspension
Suspension (Front/Rear)
- Ride Height : -6/-6
- Spring Rate : 20.0/12.3
- Dampers (Extension) : 5/6
- Dampers (Compression) : 8/8
- Anti-Roll Bars : 6/4

Wheel Alignment (Front/Rear)
- Camber angle : -3.4/-1.6
- Toe Angle : +0.0/+0.12 (bah, she got me.)

Brakes (Front/Rear)
- Brake Balance 6/4

Drive aids
ABS 1 else all off (got you !)

Tires
- Racing Soft/Soft mandatory.

Tuning circuit
- Rome - 1'03.xxx.
- Deep Forest - 1'11.599
- High Speed Ring - 0'59.131
- La Sarthe 2009/no chicane - 3'23.035
- Midfield (hahaha, in GT4)

Tips
- She can brake, but understeers. So, brake a little sooner.
- She oversteer at ends of curves. Remember, you're using a 1041 hp car, V12, with no driving aids but ABS 1, so be cool with the accel. She's still stable somehow but you should do a few laps, to learn her driving, around a track you know by heart.
- She never autoturns sadly. By suspension, just quite the beginning. She's still understeering. It's one of the untamable beasts, my personal K2 after the Yellowbird. In GT4, 5 years ago, I remember trying to setup her around Midfield for 2 full days long.
Today, I still didn't succeed taming her at 100% of what I would have wanted : this car need badly 28kg in front !! I'm still happy somehow by the result.
- Try a RH of +6/+6 if you feel she's loose. Math tells it's a good RH for the SR I choosed, but at that height, she oversteer a little more.. Try and tell me ! Anyway, if you change RH, don't forget it's a flat setup. RH should be same/same.
- She can donut on her lenght. :D
- Races vs Zonda LM should be interesting. With no drivng aids, you win. With driving helps on a slow track the zonda wins.

Back to the shop
Click to expand...

This is the best Setup i ever seen for the Cerbera Speed!!!
Circuit de la Sarthe `09 (without harassment)
3:16:489
Great Work man!! 👍
 

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