UK government

[ledhed]

Congratulations to Tony Blair on his third term in office . Can our UK members give us some insight as to how he won ? If you are to believe the news reports leading up to the election he was a doomed man and not very well liked . Although from what I had seen of him he would make a good candidate in the US .
How does your government work over on the other side ?
My brain had a cramp in it and I confused

with

but they can never be

But can hope to out do

 

[Famine]

It doesn't.

 

[Sphinx]

We could always try proportional representation if you like.

 

[barryl85]

Over here it does not matter whos in charge because in all honesty all they want to do is take more money off of hard working citizens in taxes, fuel prices at an all time high & that one really bugs me because its the first thing to get a tax increase, i earn just over £1000 a month and on that i get around £150 taken off for tax and about £70 national insurance, i mean that is gutting! house prices continuously rising - i mean i could never afford a house just now never mind i struggle to maintain my car, thats my view i dont think ive ever seen anything get cheaper in britain always on the increase !

 

[Famine]

We could always try proportional representation if you like.

Indeed.

Labour get 36.3% of the votes, for 353 seats. Conservatives get 33.2% of the votes, but only 196 seats. How can a 3% difference equate to nearly 160 constituencies, and an overwhelming majority in parliament?

 

[JacktheHat]

Indeed.

Seconded

 

[Sphinx]

That sounds correct but I wonder which party would lose more under PR. Lab, Lib or Con?

 

[Famine]

Labour would.

By these figures they'd either have a lame-duck PM (one with a numerical superiority over any single other party, but with a numerical inferiority to ALL the other parties - meaning his power is only available when they agree with him), or there'd be a Labour-controlled Coalition Cabinet.

But you know something's wrong when 64% of people who vote vote against someone, yet he manages an overwhelming majority of seats.

 

[Sphinx]

I thought the Lib-Dem's would. If so then that would really be three party politics.

I honestly like the idea of PR. This is based purely on my selfish view of wanting my vote to count for something. Living within a Tory stronghold as I do, my vote counts for nothing today unless I apply the 'tactical vote' and vote for a party I don't support.

 

[Famine]

Wanting your vote to count as much as any other person's isn't selfish. It's sense.


I should have added that PR will never happen, because the party that stands to lose the most is the one in power to make it happen.

 

[ledhed]

So how did Blair manage to stay as prime minister if he represents a small minority ?
what am I missing ?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Well as far as I can see, the main thing was the Conservatives choice of Leader. They could not have picked a worse guy, he still reminds people of the Boom and Bust days, repossession of houses and is also personally responsible for the worst ever policy in UK history. One that caused riots in London...known as the Poll Tax.

Also Labour have shown the ability to stabilise the economy with a gentle but steady growth, this is good for banks and investors, something the Tories were once good at.

Mr Howard represents everything that made the Conservatives unpopular. The line between the party policies have become so blurred. Labour has adopted Conservative strategies on economic growth and investing, the Conservatives have adopted social Labour policies (soft on drugs, reform instead of punishment) in order to try and regain popularity, but the hard line Conservatives don't want this!

So at the end of the day...IMO...I think people voted for the man and not the party. Michael Howard never had any chance of becoming PM from the moment he was announced as leader, and not surprisingly he stepped down today.

It will take years for the Tories to live down their sleaze image, and picking a guy like Howard, only rekindles the contempt. So even with the shadow of a slightly illegal war (even though Blair has been cleared from the highest levels), they still had no chance.

Incidentally it is an historic third term for Labour, Mrs T had three terms, but she never saw out her final term before she was stabbed in the back...Mr Blair could go down as the most successful British PM ever!

 

[Famine]

It's like this...

The UK Electorate is divided up into 646 "Constituences", or "Seats", each of which can return one MP to parliament. The people of that constituency vote for a bunch of candidates and whoever gets the most votes wins, and is "returned". It can be by 1 vote or by 100,000 votes (well... no constituency has that many votes, but you get the idea).

To make a majority, a party needs to return 324 seats. This means that they can make a government and vote all at once to push their decisions through regardless of the wishes of the rest of the House, because there's less of them. Again, they can win each of these 324 seats by just one vote, and if the other parties win by 10,000 votes per seat they'll STILL be in the minority despite receiving the majority of the popular vote.


"Exit polls" had Labour 4% up, meaning that they were, on average, 4% up in each constituency - higher in some, MUCH lower in others. But this effective small advantage over the other parties translates into a massive parliamentary majority. Like if I'm 1% faster than you on average in GT4, I can win a race series on all the tracks by a huge margin.

 

[ledhed]

Almost like an electorial college ..except they also govern . So you do not actualy vote for Blair...you vote for a representative and the party that has the most representatives choose a leader..Blair .
Almost like how we elect congressmen in each state and then they elect a leader from their ranks to serve as house minority and majority leaders.

 

[Flame-returns]

So how did Blair manage to stay as prime minister if he represents a small minority ?
what am I missing ?

Well the fact is Bliar does not represent a small minority, there were 3 main choices (Tory,Lib sem, and Labour.)
As a previous poster has mentioned the British people are still remembering a disaster under Thatcher during which money was saved on healthcare and education all at the expense of the common people, an example of how Margret Thatcher ruled can be seen in Camden: She decreased taxation by refusing the council permission to build affordable housing of any kind, therfore because houses became so expensive inflation rates soared and so did poverty rates, under a tory goverment nearly 1/6 of children were living in poverty and the registered 10 homless people in London in 1980s rose to about 300 within the space of a few years. She kept getting re-elected because those who voted had houses and low taxation rates.

Many people are rather iffy about voting Lib dem. So Labour is the only rational choice...

Anyway people are not dissilusioned with labour just Bliar, they beleive in a Labour goverment but want it under Brown not Bliar .

 

[ledhed]

Its odd that your conservatives mirror our Republicans and your labour our Democrats and yet Blair and Bush seem to get along very well. If Blair ran for president ( if he could ) in the US he may just get elected .

 

[Flame-returns]

Its odd that your conservatives mirror our Republicans and your labour our Democrats and yet Blair and Bush seem to get along very well. If Blair ran for president ( if he could ) in the US he may just get elected .

Sure, you can have him. just please whatever you do domt use Bush to return the favour.

 

[Famine]

Well the fact is Bliar does not represent a small minority, there were 3 main choices (Tory,Lib sem, and Labour.)

And the other fact persists that of all people who voted, only 36.3% voted for Labour party representatives... THAT'S a minority.


ledhed - the party leaders also have their own Constituencies. Blair (Lab) was returned for Sedgfield, Howard (Con) for Folkestone and Kennedy (Lib) for Ross, Skye and Lochaber. So unlike Bush they aren't just figurehead politicians - they represent their constituents' interests at the Commons too.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

ledhed - the party leaders also have their own Constituencies. Blair (Lab) was returned for Sedgfield, Howard (Con) for Folkestone and Kennedy (Lib) for Ross, Skye and Lochaber. So unlike Bush they aren't just figurehead politicians - they represent their constituents' interests at the Commons too.

Yep I saw Gordon Brown (Chancellor) keeping his seat and Jack Straw (Foreign Secretary). That would be very embarrassing for a government if a big player like that lost his seat, although I'm sure they are chosen as cabinet members partly because of their secure majorities. Incidentally Labour lost 9% of their majority in constituencies where there were large Muslim populations, with the exception of Mr Straw, who apparently still stands in the street every two weeks and makes speeches. Anyone can come along and say what they like to him...now that's brave...he is a die hard politician for sure.
Famine do you know what would happen if Blair had lost his seat and Labour had still won...?

 

[Famine]

Not a lot.

Blair would still be allowed by party rules to lead the party, although by Commons rules he wouldn't be allowed in the debating chamber... Or have an office...

There'd be a court case with nothing happening in Parliament for two months while it's resolved, and then they'd change the Law to suit Tony.

 

[Sphinx]

Not a lot.

Blair would still be allowed by party rules to lead the party, although by Commons rules he wouldn't be allowed in the debating chamber... Or have an office...

There'd be a court case with nothing happening in Parliament for two months while it's resolved, and then they'd change the Law to suit Tony.

But in reality, Blair would resign as party leader and a new leader voted in.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

But in reality, Blair would resign as party leader and a new leader voted in.

What are the chances of Blair stepping aside and letting Gordon have a go, or do you think his ego will kick in, in the attempt to be the longest serving UK PM

Favourite Election Quote:

No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in

 

[Sphinx]

What are the chances of Blair stepping aside and letting Gordon have a go, or do you think his ego will kick in, in the attempt to be the longest serving UK PM

Favourite Election Quote:

No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in

I can't see him going the full term and I suspect that plans for his stepping down had already been made before the election. When that will be all depends on his ability to control his own MP's and of course Gordon Brown IMO. Will they play ball? We shall just have to wait and see.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I can't see him going the full term and I suspect that plans for his stepping down had already been made before the election. When that will be all depends on his ability to control his own MP's and of course Gordon Brown IMO. Will they play ball? We shall just have to wait and see.

I agree, it's the sensible thing to do...and if you think about it he won't lose an election either A lot of people would have voted for Labour thinking Brown will eventually be leader eventually.
Gordon score highly in terms of integrity and sensible economic planning.

There are whispers that there has always been an agreement between the two, and Tony went back on it during his second term, there was a supposed "fall out" between the two, but if you look at how friendly and mutually complimentary they are now, I'd say the deal was back on

Having said that...he might just wait till he has served one day longer than Mrs Thatcher

 

[Lee]

The government of the uk, in my view, cares much more about money than the lives of the public and the hard earning workers, i think the only reason labour got into parliment for a 3rd term is because the majority of the voters were in protest against the concervatives who are just tits, then the lib dems had relatively ok ideas but their leader just didnt seem up to doing anythin for the public (then again he did have sleep deprevation...).

In this government in the near future i reckon will be much more reliant on other countries to keep us economically afloat instead of just making our own money, and i believe this truly gr8 country could, to be honest, go down in the dumps...

but thts just my opinion, and we are all entitled to 'em

bee