- 361
- Calgary
- slotcarrod
VTGT07
Thanks! Sorry!
Under or over?
- Thread starter Greycap
- 80 comments
- 3,217 views
Thanks! Sorry!
- 738
- DJC330Wagon
Oversteer 👍
I thought it was a crazy question like - would you like a slap or a big pile of money.
I can't believe anyone voted understeer.
Off topic - 100 posts
check the avatar
I thought it was a crazy question like - would you like a slap or a big pile of money.
I can't believe anyone voted understeer.
Off topic - 100 posts
check the avatar
- 2,275
- Forest, VA
- schneiderj
- Systemcrash9004
It just annoys the hell out of me when people screw up homonymns all the time. I see that atleast 10 times a day on this forum and this one caught me in one of those 'moods'.slotcarrodThanks! Sorry!
Anyway .. I forgive you, you're Canadian. Thats punishment enough,
*runs and hides*
- 343
Actually, that's mainly to make the car turn more responsively by putting the engine near the middle of the car. You can get more than enough oversteer with a properly tuned FR car._¹_Oversteer is funnier and quicker than any other way of driving.
It isn't because of nothing that all Formulas and the majority of the race cars are have rear wheel transmission.
Cumps*
- 4,497
- Vancouver, BC
slotcarrod
Blah!
- 1,929
Oversteer!
I need it, I habitually brake to late. Besides that, it's fun. If understeer was fun, drifting competitions would consist of flashy overpowered FF cars going in a dead straight line at full lock steering.
I need it, I habitually brake to late. Besides that, it's fun. If understeer was fun, drifting competitions would consist of flashy overpowered FF cars going in a dead straight line at full lock steering.
I'd take offense, but you're from Virginia, what do you know?VTGT07Anyway .. I forgive you, you're Canadian. Thats punishment enough,
*runs and hides*
- 451
I like a little bit of oversteer for racing and a lot more when I'm playing round. I also like tinkering round with FWDs till I can get rid of the understeer. I've got a Primera with a stage 2 turbo set up awesomely and it handles like it's on rails.
tho everyone here seems to like oversteer, i personally prefer a tad of understeer for actual racing. sure oversteer, is fun, but risky when it comes to racing.
I reckon the biggest variable is the good old DS2 vs wheel. using a DS2 makes snappy oversteer a big worry (especially on the bumpy tracks)
I reckon the biggest variable is the good old DS2 vs wheel. using a DS2 makes snappy oversteer a big worry (especially on the bumpy tracks)
- 607
i choose oversteer,as long as it's not too much. It just feels like i have more control over the car for longer into the bend
OT what is it with canadians, like on souht park they have weird heads?
VTGT07Anyway .. I forgive you, you're Canadian. Thats punishment enough,
*runs and hides*
OT what is it with canadians, like on souht park they have weird heads?
- 1,128
To corner at your fastest, you want it to be where the rear tires break free JUST before the fronts, so that as you turn the car scrubing the front tires on their limit of grip the rear tires are just slightly skiding across the pavement. When you get it set up just right what that does is cause the car to rotate around it's center as it corners. (perfectly neutral)
That being said, I voted for oversteer. I like to set my cars up to be perfectly neutral at a steady pace, but to oversteer under breaking AND accelerating. The reason is that if I nail the corner I can glide through it without having to do any fancy footwork to get the car to rotate, but if I screw up my entry and go too deep, when I slam on the breaks not only am I scrubing speed but I'm producing some angle which helps position the car for a good exit. Then I get on the power which keeps it rotating and I ride out on a surge of power and a delicious four wheel drift. It's almost as fast because your still getting on the power early in the turn and making a late apex, you just lose some time on entry.
p.s. By the way, that works best with AWD cars
p.p.s. Did I mention I love AWD cars?
That being said, I voted for oversteer. I like to set my cars up to be perfectly neutral at a steady pace, but to oversteer under breaking AND accelerating. The reason is that if I nail the corner I can glide through it without having to do any fancy footwork to get the car to rotate, but if I screw up my entry and go too deep, when I slam on the breaks not only am I scrubing speed but I'm producing some angle which helps position the car for a good exit. Then I get on the power which keeps it rotating and I ride out on a surge of power and a delicious four wheel drift. It's almost as fast because your still getting on the power early in the turn and making a late apex, you just lose some time on entry.
p.s. By the way, that works best with AWD cars
p.p.s. Did I mention I love AWD cars?
- 2,208
rsmithdrift
Only on dirt or snow. On asphalt, you scrub off speed as soon as the rear end starts to come around. Just watch RL race cars. Nobody oversteers. Everybody keeps the rear end behind the front end. Are they all doing it wrong?
Come on, oversteer fans, what are you people thinking?...
- 860
Zardoz
Did you not read the second paragraph? I said that in long races understeer is your friend. Because though slight oversteer (ie loose) is faster, it is generally incosistent and can easily lead to a crash, not to mention the fact that you kill the rear tires. Slight understeer will save your rear tires, be consistent, and only a shade slower than if you were driving an Ideal "loose" set up for speed and quickest lap time. Ever watch a qualifying session? The fastest guys are about to spin out the whole way 'round the track, the slower ones are running a set up similar to there race set up and look very stable. 75% of the time the pole sitter got that spot by putting in a lap that was just plain scary and on the edge of control (like Micheal Schumacher). But in race trim they are slower, more consistent, and understeering slightly.
Think about this. The rear wheels drive the car forward, so you can make the rear wheels drive you around a turn by making forward be at a slight angle to the road (usually unnoticable on camera). The less you have to turn the less speed you are scrubbing with the front wheels. Any speed that you are scrubbing with the rear wheels is made unnoticable and is nullified by the forward acceleration being applied by the throttle. This is what is called throttle steering, even with unnoticable angle your main steering control is the accelerator. The steering wheel is just to keep the car on line and in balance. If you do this right it can be faster to get a tiny bit of wheelspin to make the rear tires "scrub" you forward and this push will help you turn. The only time slipping the rear end slows you down is when you get loose on accident, or in the wrong part of a turn, or cannot accelerate the car once it has gotten loose due to an incorrect line and/or entry speed.
- 4,728
- ferrari_chris
Oversteer kicks ass, understeer is crap.
I play GT4 to have fun, and I've never had any fun understeering off a corner! If your car is set up for oversteer, then if all goes wrong in the race, you can drift all the way to the line...
Alternativley, if all is going well, then you can drift all the way to the line...
On a more serious note, I find understeer (in GT4) slow and down right dangerous! When the ASM is on, this causes the car to understeer to the outside of the corner, and beyond in some cases. It doesn't let the damn car car turn in. I'd hate soemthing like this on the road, just leaving me as a passenger while my car "corrects" itself into a cliff...
IMO opinion, understeer is the sign of a poorly set up car. Before you jump on that, I am well aware that a car can be setup for understeer, or have the understeer dialed out of it. But, IMO, understeer is the sign of a poorly set up car.
Guess which one I picked!
I play GT4 to have fun, and I've never had any fun understeering off a corner! If your car is set up for oversteer, then if all goes wrong in the race, you can drift all the way to the line...
Alternativley, if all is going well, then you can drift all the way to the line... On a more serious note, I find understeer (in GT4) slow and down right dangerous! When the ASM is on, this causes the car to understeer to the outside of the corner, and beyond in some cases. It doesn't let the damn car car turn in. I'd hate soemthing like this on the road, just leaving me as a passenger while my car "corrects" itself into a cliff...
IMO opinion, understeer is the sign of a poorly set up car. Before you jump on that, I am well aware that a car can be setup for understeer, or have the understeer dialed out of it. But, IMO, understeer is the sign of a poorly set up car.
Guess which one I picked!
- 23,800
- Philippines
I'd choose neutral if it was given, but it was not.
Oversteer is more fun, but it tends to lose momentum. Understeering merely requires you to brake early, turn in, and power out. Oversteer causes you to brake early and feather the throttle a bit more on the ride out. I'd rather have to worry merely about corner entry rather than both entry and exit. You can go faster in an oversteering car (because it can be trimmed down to neutral), but the waste of tires and the need to balance it more makes it tiring for long races.
I'd pick oversteer for fun and speed. Understeer for consistency and repeatability and racing, I'd rather have a stable car to race in than an entertaining one. I voted for understeer because I bet myself everyone else wanted drift! drift! drift!...
Oversteer is more fun, but it tends to lose momentum. Understeering merely requires you to brake early, turn in, and power out. Oversteer causes you to brake early and feather the throttle a bit more on the ride out. I'd rather have to worry merely about corner entry rather than both entry and exit. You can go faster in an oversteering car (because it can be trimmed down to neutral), but the waste of tires and the need to balance it more makes it tiring for long races.
I'd pick oversteer for fun and speed. Understeer for consistency and repeatability and racing, I'd rather have a stable car to race in than an entertaining one. I voted for understeer because I bet myself everyone else wanted drift! drift! drift!...
- 1,418
When I drive a car with too much oversteer I am wishing for a little bit less.
When I drive a car with understeer I am wishing for some oversteer.
I never wish for more understeer.
Never wish for anything on cold tires as by then it is probably to late.
When I drive a car with understeer I am wishing for some oversteer.
I never wish for more understeer.
Never wish for anything on cold tires as by then it is probably to late.
I was talking about rear wheel driving, sorry for calling that transmission. (JTSnooks understood that...)
The mid-rear engine position helps on things like mass distribution while braking/turning, getting a lower gravity centre and some other things related to the car balance I guess...
Anyway thks for the correction Woolie Wool.
Just before finishing.. OVERSTEER Forever!
Between Neutral and Oversteer, if the Neutral is theorically the safer and the fastest option while thinking about driving techniques and the best lines on the track, when driving a racing car things get easier with a slight oversteer (just a slight...not too much)
The mid-rear engine position helps on things like mass distribution while braking/turning, getting a lower gravity centre and some other things related to the car balance I guess...
Anyway thks for the correction Woolie Wool.
Just before finishing.. OVERSTEER Forever!
Between Neutral and Oversteer, if the Neutral is theorically the safer and the fastest option while thinking about driving techniques and the best lines on the track, when driving a racing car things get easier with a slight oversteer (just a slight...not too much)
I like lift off oversteer. Other than that a little oversteer is best for fun, a little understeer is best for racing if you cant get it perfectly nuetral. well for my style anyway.
What I really dont like is cars that oversteer and understeer at the same time (ie US cars). One at a time is quite enough for me.
What I really dont like is cars that oversteer and understeer at the same time (ie US cars). One at a time is quite enough for me.
- 961
Slight oversteer may be the fastest in theory, but in practise most people will drive faster with slight understeer.
If you drive two identical cars one with oversteer and the other with understeer the chances are that you will lap faster with the latter. Reason ? With understeer you may mess up entries but you will get consistently fast exit speeds, with oversteer you will get into the corner fast enough but will you have the skill to get it out again ? Some will, but most will not.
Steven
If you drive two identical cars one with oversteer and the other with understeer the chances are that you will lap faster with the latter. Reason ? With understeer you may mess up entries but you will get consistently fast exit speeds, with oversteer you will get into the corner fast enough but will you have the skill to get it out again ? Some will, but most will not.
Steven
- 1,202
I find I get a faster exit on a car that has exit oversteer than exit understeer, quite simply because exit understeer usually requires me to back off the throttle more than I have to with oversteer on exit. I don't agree that understeer always gives a faster exit speed since it can limit how much power you can use just as much as an oversteer balance.
What is fastest is all down to the particular car and the person driving it. There is no single magic formula. When automatic pilot becomes common on cars (hopefully faaar in the future) the fastest balance will still be down to the particular car and operating program.
What is fastest is all down to the particular car and the person driving it. There is no single magic formula. When automatic pilot becomes common on cars (hopefully faaar in the future) the fastest balance will still be down to the particular car and operating program.
- 4,497
- Vancouver, BC
The fastest method I think is to have an oversteering car, with an understeering driver. A car set up for oversteer has more cornering speed potential, and in the right hands this oversteer can be transferred into cornering speed instead of drifting. Remember folks, a good handling car is one that has high cornering speeds, not stability. Stability is understeer.
The only problem with this is that it depends completley on the driver's skill. If he/she messes up corner entry, they got a wild boar under the reigns, and correction will be nearly impossible. This technique could be seen from F1 drivers of the 60's and 70's.
Other than that, I'd say your best bet is neutral.
The only problem with this is that it depends completley on the driver's skill. If he/she messes up corner entry, they got a wild boar under the reigns, and correction will be nearly impossible. This technique could be seen from F1 drivers of the 60's and 70's.
Other than that, I'd say your best bet is neutral.
- 860
StevenDunn99
I guess I'm special then. I drove a BONE STOCK RX-7 Bathurst R in arcade mode with N1's ran some speed drift laps at Trial Mountain Normal, got an awesome lap, perfect speed drift in every turn, no understeer, linked 90% of the turns(obviously I didn't Manji it down the straights), and saved the goast. I TOOK THE SAME EXACT CAR and started running grip laps (I.e. neutral, no oversteer, or understeer) Got a perfect grip lap on the 6th lap, AND IT WAS 1.2 SECONDS SLOWER THAN THE SPEED DRIFTING GOAST!!!! I couldn't believe it. And that grip lap really was the best I could do. I guess that "loose is fast" is just my style. It's what I've grown up with and I have 100% faith in it.
Now don't get me wrong, Show drifting is slow as hell and up to 10 seconds per lap slower than grip racing, but speed drifting is just as fast as griping, if not faster with the right driver. Also, while the fastest grip lap only took 6 laps to achieve, the perfect speed drift lap took over 4 hours to get and any mistake while speed drifting will cost you around 2-5 seconds each, that is, if you don't wreck first. Therefore it is highly not recomended that you do this in a race, especially one with tire wear. Also, in race conditions, I do let the back end hang out, just not enough to be noticable or excessively damage the tires, just enough to be fast.
And I totally agree with alfaholic on the different strokes for different folks bit. I am extremely good at driving fast with oversteer. Hell, it's my life and I spend around 3-4 hours a day polishing my technique. But some people will be able to keep up, if not be faster than me, driving the same car with understeer. It all depends on your driving style. You can make any car drive any way you want if you know how.
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