Update 1.23 is an insult! Real racing Sim? I think not!

[Maneawolff]

I spent countless hours building and tuning road cars to make them effective for winning races and now the only tuning that affects pp is downforce? Disgraceful.
2 identical cars at different ride highs have the same pp... How is that realistic?
All to stop people making glitch cars.
I build road cars up and spend hours refining tuning to keep it under 700pp so I can make money to buy all these cars but now why would I bother?
I've been a gran Turismo fan since the first game but what polyphony digital has done here has made me question if this is still the game for me, it's like they charge us a fortune for the game and then take away the few things that make it interesting.
I've been waiting so long to be able to tune cars realistically and now they have just made that redundant.
Please comment if you feel the same.

 

[TumeK5]

Using the Tomahawk for the Tokyo race definitely was realistic/fair as well.

Anywho, PD are known for being extremely lazy. I'm willing to bet this is just a hasty workaround before they iron out the PP system in the future. They keep changing this stuff anyway, I mean, before gears affected PP and you could lower it significantly by just extending the final gear which you won't be using.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Performance points are not much different than BOP as far as I'm concerned. In real life, BOP effectively limits power and weight but usually has no effect on suspension tuning. I am OK with how it is now.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Performance points ate not much different than BOP as far as I'm concerned. In real life, BOP effectively limits power and weight but usually has no effect on suspension tuning. I am OK with how it is now.

After putting in some thought, I gotta agree with you. In the end, when we enter a lobby with hp/weight/pp restrictions anyone may have a good tune under the body anyway (how many points would a suspension change PP like 10-ish pts?). If people are complaining about not being able to grind events with their glitched car anymore, just try AFK Credit Farming over night or for a couple days or whatever, then you don't even need to spend your own time doing it; win-win 🤷‍♂️


Jerome

 

[Maneawolff]

Yeah I hear you both...
I don't know that the tomahawk glitch is fair enough and I don't have a problem with them patching it TumeK5 but changing the tuning effects is just an over reach.
And are you seriously ok with this change R1600Turbo ?
If the claim is 'real racing Sim' but you can drop your ride height without effecting pp how is that like a Bop feature?
Having your front end slightly lower than your rear creates more rear downforce workout having to adjust the angle of your rear wing.
I'm just saying it's a blanket solution from BP and it has ruined the fun of tuning to suit certain tracks.
Like Sarthe.. I've created like 15 or 20 cars and tuned them to perfection for that particular course. Now I may as well just drop every car on its guts (lower I mean) increase the initial torque on the LSD just short of spinning, increase braking effect so that I can use my gears to slow down better, negative camber on the rear to prevent burnout when accelerating out of corners, negative camber and toe in on the front to help the tyres dig in around corners... All this kind of stuff should reduce my pp so I don't have an unfair advantage. But now if I create a lobby and allow tuning people can just juice everything up and still stay under the pp threshold. How is that fair?
I'm just saying.. They market the game as 'the real driving simulator' right?
How is that realistic?

 

[CodeRedR51]

If the claim is 'real racing Sim' but you can drop your ride height without effecting pp how is that like a Bop feature?

Its not a BOP feature.

 

[Maneawolff]

After putting in some thought, I gotta agree with you. In the end, when we enter a lobby with hp/weight/pp restrictions anyone may have a good tune under the body anyway (how many points would a suspension change PP like 10-ish pts?). If people are complaining about not being able to grind events with their glitched car anymore, just try AFK Credit Farming over night or for a couple days or whatever, then you don't even need to spend your own time doing it; win-win 🤷‍♂️


Jerome

Oh wow I just went on a rant and then saw that you have agreed with me.
I honestly think we should all make our opinions known so hopefully they change it back, otherwise it's just too easy. I play on expert and still win every race, I just want the game to be challenging so I'm motivated to play.
We don't need new cars either, we need new tracks. Tokyo expressway has like 8 races.
Monza : 1
Bathurst : 1
Tokyo expressway isn't a real life track, Monza and Bathurst are 2 of the world's best.
I just think they are making a huge mistake atm.

 

[Maneawolff]

Oh wow I just went on a rant and then saw that you have agreed with me.
I honestly think we should all make our opinions known so hopefully they change it back, otherwise it's just too easy. I play on expert and still win every race, I just want the game to be challenging so I'm motivated to play.
We don't need new cars either, we need new tracks. Tokyo expressway has like 8 races.
Monza : 1
Bathurst : 1
Tokyo expressway isn't a real life track, Monza and Bathurst are 2 of the world's best.
I just think they are making a huge mistake atm.

Yeah people glitch farming have messed it up for the rest of us.
Why would I want to do 12 laps in a car that feels like a jet on Ice skates just to earn 800k? Id rather actually race, win lose or draw...
Thanks for the feedback dude, I really hope people express their opinions to polyphony digital.

 

[TumeK5]

Yeah I hear you both...
I don't know that the tomahawk glitch is fair enough and I don't have a problem with them patching it TumeK5

I think you may have missed my sarcasm on that sentence.

Oh wow I just went on a rant and then saw that you have agreed with me.

I think you have ALSO missed out on the fact Jerome was replying to R1600.

 

[Maneawolff]

I really hope people pressure Polyphony Digital to change it back.
Why do they even have a tomahawk X.?
The only place you can race it is in non-pp events or in a lobby....
Speaking of which: They have fixed the lobby races a bit so at least we can create our own races and have people from all over the world in them...
I'll give them that.

I think you may have missed my sarcasm on that sentence.


I think you have ALSO missed out on the fact Jerome was replying to R1600.

Oh wow. Don't I feel like a goose right now.
Thanks for your input guys, I really appreciate it.
Props TumeK5, you da man.

Please excuse my ignorance guys, first time I've been motivated enough to express on this forum.

Using the Tomahawk for the Tokyo race definitely was realistic/fair as well.

Anywho, PD are known for being extremely lazy. I'm willing to bet this is just a hasty workaround before they iron out the PP system in the future. They keep changing this stuff anyway, I mean, before gears affected PP and you could lower it significantly by just extending the final gear which you won't be using.

Yeah I hear ya. I hope this is just a knee jerk reaction and they change it back.

 

[eran0004]

I spent countless hours building and tuning road cars to make them effective for winning races and now the only tuning that affects pp is downforce? Disgraceful.
2 identical cars at different ride highs have the same pp... How is that realistic?
All to stop people making glitch cars.
I build road cars up and spend hours refining tuning to keep it under 700pp so I can make money to buy all these cars but now why would I bother?
I've been a gran Turismo fan since the first game but what polyphony digital has done here has made me question if this is still the game for me, it's like they charge us a fortune for the game and then take away the few things that make it interesting.
I've been waiting so long to be able to tune cars realistically and now they have just made that redundant.
Please comment if you feel the same.

PP doesn’t exist in reality, so I don’t really understand what’s unrealistic about excluding the suspension settings from it.

What is your actual problem? Did your tunes change so they are no longer under 700PP?

 

[TumeK5]

 

[Maneawolff]

PP doesn’t exist in reality, so I don’t really understand what’s unrealistic about excluding the suspension settings from it.

What your actual problem? Did your tunes change so they are no longer under 700PP?

No I just have to tweak a few. But if it's a real 'driving simulator' as advertised then why would these things now effect your pp. And I know pp isn't a thing in actual racing because they have regulations.
Pp is Gt7 language for regulations.
Just imagine how this will affect lobby races which have finally started to work decently.

Anyway disregard suspension. Even though it massively effects cornering and overall performance.
What about ride height?
Should that not change a car's eligibility?

 

[eran0004]

No I just have to tweak a few. But if it's a real 'driving simulator' as advertised then why would these things now effect your pp. And I know pp isn't a thing in actual racing because they have regulations.
Pp is Gt7 language for regulations.
Just imagine how this will affect lobby races which have finally started to work decently.

They are free to set whatever regulations they want to have. It doesn’t affect the driving simulation in any way.

How do you imagine it will affect lobby races?

 

[Maneawolff]

View attachment 1197355

Ok

They are free to set whatever regulations they want to have. It doesn’t affect the driving simulation in any way.

How do you imagine it will affect lobby races?

If I create a lobby and don't set bop and therefore tuning is allowed would that not affect it? Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong.

 

[eran0004]

If I create a lobby and don't set bop and therefore tuning is allowed would that not affect it? Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong.

I imagine it will have these two effects:

1. Those who are good at suspension tuning are more free to create good setups for their car.
2. It’s no longer possible to exploit the system by creating a suspension setup that the game thinks is bad in order to gain more power or less weight.

 

[Maneawolff]

I imagine it will have these two effects:

1. Those who are good at suspension tuning are more free to create good setups for their car.
2. It’s no longer possible to exploit the system by creating a suspension setup that the game thinks is bad in order to gain more power or less weight.

Yeah suspension wise I'd imagine you're right, I'm still trying to refine mine.
But it's just the combination of the lot that is going to make it difficult for some people to compete with others.
Everyone's ride height is going to be low as and sure they can tune their car to perfection but I think that doing that should have a trade off. That was the point I was making. I think being able to tune whatever you want without effecting your pp is a loss to the game.
There should be a trade off for anything that aids your performance. Otherwise everyone is going to have their car as low as possible, maybe with the rear slightly higher to creat downforce workout having to apply it on the rear wing. Differential torque pushed to peak level without causing spin or oversteer.
Things like that. I just don't think letting people time without a trade off is going to create even more problems then the glitch cars did.

 

[eran0004]

Yeah suspension wise I'd imagine you're right, I'm still trying to refine mine.
But it's just the combination of the lot that is going to make it difficult for some people to compete with others.
Everyone's ride height is going to be low as and sure they can tune their car to perfection but I think that doing that should have a trade off. That was the point I was making. I think being able to tune whatever you want without effecting your pp is a loss to the game.
There should be a trade off for anything that aids your performance. Otherwise everyone is going to have their car as low as possible, maybe with the rear slightly higher to creat downforce workout having to apply it on the rear wing. Differential torque pushed to peak level without causing spin or oversteer.
Things like that. I just don't think letting people time without a trade off is going to create even more problems then the glitch cars did.

I think it will just shift the focus from looking for a setup that allows you to exploit the PP glitch, to looking for a setup that improves the handling of the car.

In my opinion they should do the same with the downforce settings and calculate the PP using the stock settings instead of the settings used by the player.

 

[MrSitar]

Game wants us to drive electric cars? Fine! Polyphony digital wants to create made up cars that are unrealistic based prototypes and then implement
a system that’s broken as hell like PP? realism went out the window with cars that can go 300mph easily, 🤷

 

[Maneawolff]

Game wants us to drive electric cars? Fine! Polyphony digital wants to create made up cars that are unrealistic based prototypes and then implement a broken a system that’s broken as hell like PP? realism went out the window with cars that can go 300mph easily, 🤷

Totally agree, it's frustrating and disappointed. The game is just about online racing for me but you have to race bots to make money to buy cars, it's just taken all the fun out of building cars to make money with.
Every car will just be lowered right down, roll bars slightly tighter, but of extra neg camber and toe in on fronts.
I just enjoyed working around the limitations to create a good setup is all, now it's just the same thing with each car. I may as well give up making new builds and just use the same car every time to build cash. Shamei.

 

[MrSitar]

Totally agree, it's frustrating and disappointed. The game is just about online racing for me but you have to race bots to make money to buy cars, it's just taken all the fun out of building cars to make money with.
Every car will just be lowered right down, roll bars slightly tighter, but of extra neg camber and toe in on fronts.
I just enjoyed working around the limitations to create a good setup is all, now it's just the same thing with each car. I may as well give up making new builds and just use the same car every time to build cash. Shamei.

I’m the same way but right now I don’t know how to feel because cars just feel completely off while racing, I lost all motivation to earn credits since everything I used to race has changed, even habits and suspension based tunes have gone out the window because of it.

I don’t like ballast based tuning, that’s just me though 😭

 

[Tazz69]

OK I have to chime in. I race a reversed raked Yaris at 600pp online and win about every time. And I feel so bad doing it. Come on guys. Look GT6 PP was based off of HP and weight only. Yes I think even downforce should not change the PP. GT6 had the closest racing I have ever done. 12 cars 5 laps all nose to tail. Suspension tuning should make a huge difference. It is a racing game. All the race goodies. Wide body kit wider wheels all should make the car handle better. Suspension tuning handle better. Add down force slower straight faster in the turn. You adjust the car and real life response to that change. If you squeeze everything out of the car it should handle great. The way the cars were tuned before in real life would not drive around the block. I dont know the fix but this change should start to make the racing a lot closer. Real world setups being used. In a perfect world you would want every car a certain PP tuned to its max be only .5 second a lap difference in all of them. But also mid engine front engine rear engine all have there differences and not all are going to be perfect for every track. Something had to change. Nothing about these setups in the lobbies was close to real. Nothing. The setups had to come to real world. Changing your settings of your car should make it faster or slower. Finding the perfect suspension settings should be rewarded. PP is broken. They need something that simulates EACH car at is perfect setup and if it is .5 second slower or faster per lap raise or lower the pp. I want every car in the room to be able to lap as fast as my car IF they find there perfect setup for there car. Let the driving come through. And let your tuning skills shine. That is a real life driving simulator

 

[Maneawolff]

I’m the same way but right now I don’t know how to feel because cars just feel completely off while racing, I lost all motivation to earn credits since everything I used to race has changed, even habits and suspension based tunes have gone out the window because of it.

I don’t like ballast based tuning, that’s just me though 😭

100%

OK I have to chime in. I race a reversed raked Yaris at 600pp online and win about every time. And I feel so bad doing it. Come on guys. Look GT6 PP was based off of HP and weight only. Yes I think even downforce should not change the PP. GT6 had the closest racing I have ever done. 12 cars 5 laps all nose to tail. Suspension tuning should make a huge difference. It is a racing game. All the race goodies. Wide body kit wider wheels all should make the car handle better. Suspension tuning handle better. Add down force slower straight faster in the turn. You adjust the car and real life response to that change. If you squeeze everything out of the car it should handle great. The way the cars were tuned before in real life would not drive around the block. I dont know the fix but this change should start to make the racing a lot closer. Real world setups being used. In a perfect world you would want every car a certain PP tuned to its max be only .5 second a lap difference in all of them. But also mid engine front engine rear engine all have there differences and not all are going to be perfect for every track. Something had to change. Nothing about these setups in the lobbies was close to real. Nothing. The setups had to come to real world. Changing your settings of your car should make it faster or slower. Finding the perfect suspension settings should be rewarded. PP is broken. They need something that simulates EACH car at is perfect setup and if it is .5 second slower or faster per lap raise or lower the pp. I want every car in the room to be able to lap as fast as my car IF they find there perfect setup for there car. Let the driving come through. And let your tuning skills shine. That is a real life driving simulator

I hear you but I do feel like downforce should affect your pp, along with ride height, camber and LSD settings. I just preferred it when everything had an impact.
I guess I just wanted to keep building cars and having to nut out these details.
I get it though, I'm gonna invest in a decent dd wheel and pedal set up and concentrate on daily races and nations cup and stuff.

It would be great if they would rotate the cash cow races a bit as well every now and then rather than the same 4 since the games release but I think they are too lazy and not interested in keeping us interested once we have paid our money.

 

[Basafillwt]

I spent countless hours building and tuning road cars to make them effective for winning races and now the only tuning that affects pp is downforce? Disgraceful.
2 identical cars at different ride highs have the same pp... How is that realistic?
All to stop people making glitch cars.
I build road cars up and spend hours refining tuning to keep it under 700pp so I can make money to buy all these cars but now why would I bother?
I've been a gran Turismo fan since the first game but what polyphony digital has done here has made me question if this is still the game for me, it's like they charge us a fortune for the game and then take away the few things that make it interesting.
I've been waiting so long to be able to tune cars realistically and now they have just made that redundant.
Please comment if you feel the same.

Finally

They consistently ruin the game

 

[Sheesh]

The issue for me is a constantly changing PP system that is akin to a shooter changing TTK/TTD (see any BF). It messes with the meta that has developed and indicates a lack of initial testing, polish, etc. In fact, I'd argue it's worse, as while I don't need to change my shooter load out much when the meta is changed, in this game I now have to mess with the already tuned cars in my 400+ garage. What a chore.

I can understand a change after a month or so of real world playtesting, but more than 6 months in?

 

[Basafillwt]

Why create a Masterpiece and ruin it on pp point settings 🤦‍♂️

 

[Tazz69]

You think a Masterpiece is cars in online lobbies driving as high as they can go looking like 4X4 trucks to get extra HP. Winning races like that is a Masterpiece?

 

[TheGhostOf94]

I spent countless hours building and tuning road cars to make them effective for winning races and now the only tuning that affects pp is downforce? Disgraceful.
2 identical cars at different ride highs have the same pp... How is that realistic?
All to stop people making glitch cars.
I build road cars up and spend hours refining tuning to keep it under 700pp so I can make money to buy all these cars but now why would I bother?
I've been a gran Turismo fan since the first game but what polyphony digital has done here has made me question if this is still the game for me, it's like they charge us a fortune for the game and then take away the few things that make it interesting.
I've been waiting so long to be able to tune cars realistically and now they have just made that redundant.
Please comment if you feel the same.

I know how annoying it is to have to constantly readjust to the updates, but one thing to keep in mind are the fixes they've made to the physics.

The PP system is all screwed up and has been since the game released, so I don't really see it being perfect EVER.

It is weird that suspension tuning doesn't affect PP anymore (it's just a simpler PP calculation now) but luckily the changes to suspension still affect the car's performance characteristics, so you CAN still have some great cars competing across different classes still.

 

[Maneawolff]

I know how annoying it is to have to constantly readjust to the updates, but one thing to keep in mind are the fixes they've made to the physics.

The PP system is all screwed up and has been since the game released, so I don't really see it being perfect EVER.

It is weird that suspension tuning doesn't affect PP anymore (it's just a simpler PP calculation now) but luckily the changes to suspension still affect the car's performance characteristics, so you CAN still have some great cars competing across different classes still.

Yeah true. I've noticed allot of posts and vids suggesting it was rushed into completion or just releases to early.

 

[hyperspeed980]

Suspension/diff settings not affecting PP is a good thing for lobbies. The only problem I have with it is that I can't see the other stats change anymore (1/4 mile time, G-forces, etc.)