Upgrading Cars.

[Starfirebird]

My apologies if this has been covered.

For some reason when i upgrade a car to the next Class(say B to A)The car is not as competitive?

I just made a tune for the 92 Honda NSX and Upgraded it from B to A.Car feels great.Feels like it has good speed,good turn in and the likes.Went to the Leaderboards to check my times and i was around 10 to 12 seconds slower than the rest of the top drivers.If i did this upgrade from one class to another in FM3 i was still pretty competitive,maybe 4 seconds off of 1st place,which is about right for me.

I was curious to see what the specs were to the A class cars without any upgrades and the speed far surpassed my Honda's.I mean not just a little.I'm taking about a lot.Mine was 6.8 for speed and 6.8 for handling.One of the cars i checked had a speed of 8.9 and handling of 5.8.

Did they change something in the Upgrading department where the cars don't do as well going up in classes or do i just need to re-think my tuning?

 

[GTlondoner]

Normally takes alot of testing to find the right balance of weight/power/grip specially if you're only adding a few upgrades.

 

[Wolfe]

Each class consists of a "block" of PI numbers, and the slowest of that block are paired against the fastest simply because that's how the classes are laid out. What you want to aim for in tuning is to max out a particular class; an A600 car will be much more competitive than an A501, a C425 car will be more competitive than a C351, etc.

 

[IceMan PJN]

For some reason when i upgrade a car to the next Class(say B to A)The car is not as competitive?

I was curious to see what the specs were to the A class cars without any upgrades and the speed far surpassed my Honda's.I mean not just a little.I'm taking about a lot.Mine was 6.8 for speed and 6.8 for handling.One of the cars i checked had a speed of 8.9 and handling of 5.8.

It's not as simple as just looking at one or two specific attributes.

I'd like to know what your actual PI rating was (number) rather than simply saying you upgraded from B to A, because simply going up to A class puts you within a 100-point bracket. You could go from a B-class with a PI rating of 500 to an A-class with a PI rating of 501, which would only be the most marginal of improvements but would still bump you up into a class that tops out at PI 600.

Even if you're talking about your B-class car being upgraded to A 600, simply having a good PI rating doesn't mean you're going to be the fastest in terms of top speed or in terms of lap times. For example, if we're racing at Sunset Peninsula speedway and both of our cars are A 600, but mine gets a lot of its PI rating from high speed while yours doesn't, I'll never see you again until I come back around to lap you. Conversely, simply having really high top speed might not mean much on a course wherein slower speed cornering is much more important and you never get anywhere near top speed.

I remember one of my first races at Indy in the game, and my car had the same PI rating as the AI competition, but they kept blowing my doors off in the faster parts of the track. I had a bit of an advantage in the slower, twistier bits, but much of the track benefits speed more and the competition had a lot more speed than my car. Having matching PI ratings didn't mean we had the same top-end speeds, and we were on a circuit that seemed to favor speed more than cornering. It wasn't a fault of the PI rating system, but rather me simply having a car with its points in the wrong places.

 

[Starfirebird]

Thanks for the help with this.

I was so used to FM3's rating system that i thought it would be the same in FM4.Now i know you actually have to concentrate on different aspects of the car to be competitive.I have no problem there as i can figure that one out. 👍

Thanks again


Edit:My apologies for not being more specific on how it was upgraded.It was a B500 to a A600.I always top off my cars PI rating for whichever class it is in.

 

[laxmofo24]

Thanks for the help with this.

I was so used to FM3's rating system that i thought it would be the same in FM4.Now i know you actually have to concentrate on different aspects of the car to be competitive.I have no problem there as i can figure that one out. 👍

Thanks again


Edit:My apologies for not being more specific on how it was upgraded.It was a B500 to a A600.I always top off my cars PI rating for whichever class it is in.

Its the exact same as forza 3? :/
You cant just slap stuff on a car and expect it to be competitive

 

[Luminis]

What IceMan PJN said. You've got to match the car to the track a bit. If you're looking for a car that's supposed to do well on a host of different tracks, you need something that's fairly balanced between handling, acceleration and top speed. That isn't always easy to do and, at times, conflicts with one's own preferences. I built a Honda S2000 the other day and just lightened the hell out of it, put tyres and the adjustable upgrades on it. And I was blown off the track on Sebring. Afterwards, I removed the exessive weight reductions, slapped a super charger onto the car and won the same event with incredible ease.

If you're only upgrading the car by a few PI points to get it to the top of the class, chances are that it won't lose the initial balance most good cars come with. Hence, you're not very likely to run into such problems when the car stays within its class. This is, of course, more appearent with cars that are already close to the top of their respective class, anyways.

Another very important aspect is tuning the car. The more PI points you're adding to the car, thhe more it will change. And with a lot of change comes the necessity of preparing the car for all those changes. If a car was intended by its manufacturer to have 300HP and weigh 3000lbs, it's not going to cope all that well with having 500HP and weighing 2500lbs unless you're setting it up for it. Which means some tuning of the suspension, differential and so on.

A car that's been perfectly tame in B-class, for example, can turn into a power-oversteering monster that will lose you a lot of time on every corner, because you've got to keep the rear end under control. Tuning the whole thing accordingly to get rid of such antics helps a lot and, in my opinion, is almost inevitable if you're upgrading a car a lot.

 

[Starfirebird]

Its the exact same as forza 3? :/
You cant just slap stuff on a car and expect it to be competitive

Actually you could.

It was cheap,but AWD drive swaps and few upgrades and bam! you were on the top of the leaderboards.

I'm glad to see it's changed now.I can finally make a RWD compete with AWD's again. 👍

 

[Luminis]

Well, now it's the AWD cars that seem to be a bit on the week side

 

[Starfirebird]

Well, now it's the AWD cars that seem to be a bit on the week side

Yeah i know

I just tried a 22B the other day and it felt much slower than the FM3 version

 

[Laughlyn]

The quick upgrade just slaps on anything to get the numbers up tbh, it doesnt look at what the car needs improving on, i noticed it mainly just upgrades engine power yet changing something as simple as teh flywheel, clutch and drivehsaft can make a big improvement on handling and speed. i was terrible with upgrading and tuning cars but i spent a little time to actually read what each section of engine does and how to balance it out. sometimes u may get an A596 but will have the appropriate upgrades leading it to be a better car than an A600. Its all too easy to stick a massive engine and turbo on but if your revs are too slow because you dont have the flywheel and cluth upgraded your simply wasting the power.
On NFS Shift2 i have a Gallardo i used and in career it was great whereas online and competing in autolog challenges it wasnt getting anywhere near target times. after some time looking it over and test driving it i now have a B1499 Gallardo and it beat the time of a friends B1904 Reventon and has completely changed my autolog cos i'm knocking 3-6 secs off my old times

 

[Luminis]

The single most crucial rule of thumb when upgrading a car: Adjustable upgrades first, really. I might have not stressed that point enough. There's nothing that will improve a car's actual performance as much as a well tuned suspension, differntial, anti roll bars and so on.

 

[Thebeast2011]

Normally takes alot of testing to find the right balance of weight/power/grip specially if you're only adding a few upgrades.

What he said ^

 

[Starfirebird]

The quick upgrade just slaps on anything to get the numbers up tbh, it doesnt look at what the car needs improving on, i noticed it mainly just upgrades engine power yet changing something as simple as teh flywheel, clutch and drivehsaft can make a big improvement on handling and speed. i was terrible with upgrading and tuning cars but i spent a little time to actually read what each section of engine does and how to balance it out. sometimes u may get an A596 but will have the appropriate upgrades leading it to be a better car than an A600. Its all too easy to stick a massive engine and turbo on but if your revs are too slow because you dont have the flywheel and cluth upgraded your simply wasting the power.
On NFS Shift2 i have a Gallardo i used and in career it was great whereas online and competing in autolog challenges it wasnt getting anywhere near target times. after some time looking it over and test driving it i now have a B1499 Gallardo and it beat the time of a friends B1904 Reventon and has completely changed my autolog cos i'm knocking 3-6 secs off my old times

That Quick Upgrade option i've never used.Like you i noticed it doesn't give you the right upgrades.I've also noticed on the cars that you get to choose from after leveling up has the Quick Upgrade option already applied,which is nice to just get in an run some races against the AI,but not good for Leaderboards/Hotlapping.

I remember NFS Shift 2.I too had a 1499 Gallardo that was fast.It was the first time i placed in 1st on any type of Leaderboard.

The single most crucial rule of thumb when upgrading a car: Adjustable upgrades first, really. I might have not stressed that point enough. There's nothing that will improve a car's actual performance as much as a well tuned suspension, differntial, anti roll bars and so on.

This is the first thing i go for as well. 👍

 

[Laughlyn]

@starfirebird. yeah exactly. quick upgrade is ok for teh lower rces/championships but for anything serious and teh later stages theres no hope. i've only really just started getting into the proper tuning of the cars never really knew what each pasrt did or how it affected handling ect but teh NFS team did a series of tuning tips and reading that was amazing, so simple and great examples. think if you google shift 2 tuning tips theres 6 of em in total with ride height, springs, final gear tips (altho not really accurate for forza/GT5 it gives common sense about setting final drive between speed/accel depending on course.

my main thing is getting my gears balanced. its easy on shift 2 as its just a few clicks left right between 0-8 whereas the full gearing i need a good guide on gettin it right