Venturing into the PC world... with what?

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GTP_skeeter23
Simple question with a very likely ridiculously complex answer:

What can/should I do for a PC with a budget of say $600-800?

I sold two of my motorcycles tonight and probably my third next week. Out of the proceeds I think I'll have around $600-800 to spend on a PC to run iracing (full fx) and hopefully Pcars on at least medium.

I am not opposed to building one myself as I have done plenty in the past but would kind of prefer something out of the box. Obviously cheaper the better but I do understand that im the graphics world you gotta pay to play.

Aside from that I am making an assumption that AC and rFactor are either the same or slightly less than Pcars in terms if graphics demand?

Forgive me for the lack of knowledge but I am currently going through a divorce from Gran Turismo after an 18 year marriage to Polyphony Digital.
 
Switching to pc - ironically you will divorce Polyphony, and find polygamy. Options a plenty, for sims.

Plenty of knowledge in this section of the forum, but you may want to consider having it moved to the Computers and Technology section for even more enthusiasm.
 
One thing I can tell your for sure, your assumption is correct. AC is indeed less demanding than pCars.

pCars

MINIMUM SPEC

CPU – 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400, 3.0 GHz AMD Phenom II X4 940
GRAPHICS – nVidia GTX 260, ATI Radeon HD 5770
MEMORY – 4Gb RAM, 1Gb VRAM


RECOMMENDED SPEC

CPU – 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7 3700, 4.0 GHz AMD FX-8350
GRAPHICS – nVidia GTX600 series, AMD Radeon HD7000 series
MEMORY – 8Gb RAM, 2Gb VRAM
 
I think I may be able to work in an i5 Haswell and a GTX960 if I'm frugal with other things. Otherwise it might be more like a GTX750 if I can find a reasonably priced i7. Even with those scenarios I'm stretching the budget REALLY thin if I still have to buy an OS.

My question about that is however, am I better off putting extra $ into the GPU and a little less on the CPU or the other way round? My thought is that GPU is king for the most part.

Is a higher end i5 Haswell equal to or greater than a standard i7 3770?

Also, on the OS, if I buy W7 now I should still be eligible for the W10 upgrade right? That saves about $40-$60 if so.

(I'm now kicking myself for taking the refund on pcars instead of the download :()
 
Just finally got through breaking it to the wife in what my plans for the proceeds from the sale of all my toys are. Needless to say she's not very thrilled with the idea of spending this kind of money on "even more video games" when we're constantly broke.... but I should still be able to pull this off. So we carry on the debate here lol :lol:


Note: I am too old and beat up to race mx anymore, she won't let me race a real car, and she still has her horse. These have been the points that have won my battles in the past. Full true PC some racing is just the final logical step in my multipart war :P
 
$1,000 is the ideal price point. If you can squeeze an i5 4690K or 6600K and Nvidia GTX 970, those are the two main parts you should build around.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Micro Center)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: PNY XLR8 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($73.24 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.20 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($326.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($87.30 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($72.00 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $933.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-04 11:33 EDT-0400
 
I should add here that I already have several full atx tower cases to choose from, a 500w and a 650w power supply, about 4 1Tb 7200 HDs, extra fans and another "grab bag" box of misc stuff from previous builds. So really I just need CPU (+cooler), GPU, MB, and RAM.

Oh, and a legal OS. Not that I ever had a copy that wasn't, when I was younger, ahem...

After having brunch with my wife though I t has become very clear that $800 is going to be my absolute top end on this if I can even get to that. Then again it's not really the best day to be discussing it being our 16th anniversary and all :nervous:
 
Oh, and a legal OS. Not that I ever had a copy that wasn't, when I was younger, ahem...

Windows 10 is free at the moment, even if you're upgrading from a pirated version. Just randomly install W7 from somewhere that I'm sure I wouldn't know about, and straight upgrade it to W10. It's immediately a legal copy, and the latest to boot.
 
Frim what i understand W10 has to register a valid W7/8.1 activation code against the MS servers... not a spoofed IP list. But I wouldn't know anything about that :embarrassed:

At any rate, to travel back away from the razors edge of bannishment taunting conversations (lol) my plan is to buy a W7 copy off Amazon for about $60 and upgrade rather than spending $110 on a W10 USB drive.
 
Well,if you are looking for the best simulator and the purist simulator out there, I mean rFactor2 then you need a very good PC... Rf2 is a very demanding graphically!
 
Look honey, it's under budget.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Micro Center)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($326.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $775.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-05 09:36 EDT-0400

This will take care of every sim at max settings, 1080p, 60fps, except for project cars.
 
I think I may be able to work in an i5 Haswell and a GTX960 if I'm frugal with other things. Otherwise it might be more like a GTX750 if I can find a reasonably priced i7. Even with those scenarios I'm stretching the budget REALLY thin if I still have to buy an OS.

My question about that is however, am I better off putting extra $ into the GPU and a little less on the CPU or the other way round? My thought is that GPU is king for the most part.

Is a higher end i5 Haswell equal to or greater than a standard i7 3770?

Also, on the OS, if I buy W7 now I should still be eligible for the W10 upgrade right? That saves about $40-$60 if so.

(I'm now kicking myself for taking the refund on pcars instead of the download :()
Every gamer (in person and on the internet) and IT'er that I talked to about the i5 or i7, they all said the same thing. Get the i5! I got the i5 4690 (non K) because I'm not going to learn how to overclock and I haven't regretted my decision for a second.
The people I talked to said that the i5 is perfect for gaming and the i7 is more suitable if you're going to edit videos and stuff.

Better to get a good GPU but a good CPU is also important. Don't forget about RAM.
 
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Thanks everyone. I'm starting to feel a little more confident in this project.

I'm actually thinking I may start working on some skins today already since I won't have any hardware for at least a week. Might as well do something lol
 
I just recently, like 2 weeks ago, went through this same basic upgrade to my tower. I replaced the mobo, CPU, GPU and PSU.
To begin, your 650w, its probably going to be severally taxed running a high end CPU, GPU and accessories. I suggest at least 850w.
Everyone will tell you to buy Intel all day, except me. I had an an i5 in my last build. This time I went with an ASUS M5A99fx mobo and a AMD FX 8350 8 core The pair cost be a little over 250. I then got an MSI Radeon R9 380 and a 850w PSU. All for under 700. About 660 actually. This will leave you with enough to get an SSD. Do NOT use those 1t HDDs for anything other than long term cold storage. 7200 rpms will be the making your system drag its knuckles when load anything. Spend the money to get a decent 250G SSD and use that for the OS and any games. Store all the rest in those other drives. Oh, and liquid cool. Spend moment looking into that. Nothing worse than being fully drawn in, zoned in on racing and having the system shut down because the CPU is over heating.
 
I just recently, like 2 weeks ago, went through this same basic upgrade to my tower. I replaced the mobo, CPU, GPU and PSU.
To begin, your 650w, its probably going to be severally taxed running a high end CPU, GPU and accessories. I suggest at least 850w.
Everyone will tell you to buy Intel all day, except me. I had an an i5 in my last build. This time I went with an ASUS M5A99fx mobo and a AMD FX 8350 8 core The pair cost be a little over 250. I then got an MSI Radeon R9 380 and a 850w PSU. All for under 700. About 660 actually. This will leave you with enough to get an SSD. Do NOT use those 1t HDDs for anything other than long term cold storage. 7200 rpms will be the making your system drag its knuckles when load anything. Spend the money to get a decent 250G SSD and use that for the OS and any games. Store all the rest in those other drives. Oh, and liquid cool. Spend moment looking into that. Nothing worse than being fully drawn in, zoned in on racing and having the system shut down because the CPU is over heating.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with these statements.

First AMD vs Intel. The vast majority of games, including sim racers, perform better on Intel CPUs (i5 and up). There are piles of benchmarks that affirm this. On the low low budget end AMD is OK (cheap CPU and GPU). Otherwise you are just limiting yourself. This is a dead horse at this point.

In regards to PSUs, 650W is plenty for the majority of hardware. Certainly 970/i5. I had a POS 650W Corsair PSU with 4670K and MSI 980, both overclocked, 1 SSD, 3 HDDs, 4 fans, soundcard, etc and I was fine. I do agree it is nice to give yourself some headroom for future upgrades but it isn't necessary. This also goes against the idea of a budget build (saving on every part).

On water cooling, it is not necessary if you plan out your case air flow. A quality case (Fractal Design, Phanteks, Corsair, etc), with 1-2 extra fans, proper layout, proper fan curves in your mobo software, a quality non reference GPU, etc is perfectly amicable for silent computing. Water cooling's cost to performance ratio is not worth it on anything other than to top tier hardware. See Puget Systems's guides.
 
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with these statements.

As I said, most people will tell you to go with Intel. I still stand by my statement however. Since we are going by cheap, and by benchmark. An FX series processor will give you more bang for the buck. I had a lower end i5 processor that cost more than what I paid for my high end FX processor. Benchmark test will vouch for it. A high end intel will of course out perform an AMD in almost all aspects (graphics is actually the one place AMD beats out Intel) but, you will pay nearly 500, probably more, as opposed to 200. On average, intel mobo's are more expensive as well. As far as GPU, I'll need citations, my experience and those I've read usually put the Radeon and the GTX series GPUs at pretty even in terms of quality and power. Water cooling provides a cheap cooling solution that works far better, is affordable (start kits begin at $50 +-) and is far quieter than a bunch of fans. It was more of a suggestions. And yes, you probably could run 650w, but I have a feeling that you will be over the 75% threshold. PSU's peak at their stated wattage, much like a car amp. However, it generally can't sustain that amount for any serious amount of time. 600w give or take is more likely the max, depending on quality of the PSU (I believe 90% of labeled wattage is considered high quality, 80 and above average and below poor). Much like storage, memory and cpu, when you are humming a long on an average day, you dont want to be holding your PSU above 75% capacity. I am guessing with a 650w PSU, you will be close to that. 850w insures that not only are you not tipping over 75%, but you won't top out in instances where you might peak out the system.
 
@Johnnypenso @Saidur_AliGuys would you like to help :)
Something along these lines will work. Depending on your budget the I5-4690 (k) + GTX 960-970 is good bang for the buck. I'd have the GTX960 as a minimum and the 970 will allow you to max or near max out just about every game, single screen of course, 1080p/60. I haven't checked prices lately but the 4690k was usually only roughly $15more than the non-k version so it's worth the extra money IMO, just in case. I don't think you need 16 gb of ram, but $86 for 16 gb is a great price. I really dig my SSD and it's fast loading times, but it's not a necessity in a budget build. Cooling is a big thing. Plenty of airflow both in the case and surrounding the case is ideal, the extra cooling on the CPU should be plenty. I run the same combo and have never had any heat issues.

Look honey, it's under budget.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Micro Center)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($326.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $775.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-05 09:36 EDT-0400

This will take care of every sim at max settings, 1080p, 60fps, except for project cars.
 
If you really want to save money you can get away with an AMD cpu, I used an FX-6300 for about 3 years with a GTX660TI and could pretty much max out iRacing, only getting some fps drops with large grids (30-50 cars). But eventually you will probably get a game that doesn't run well with an AMD cpu as it won't utilise all cores and the single core performance is really bad compared to intel.

The main reason I would recommend going with intel from the start is that if you aren't happy with an AMD cpu you can't just simply switch it out like you can with a GPU, you will need a new MOBO and operating system so it ends up costing you loads more in the long run.

I would recommend getting an i5 (4460 at least) with a GTX960.
 
I would get Intel Skylake CPU, cheaper options than 6600K will be available soon. Here is a build for $715.95 after rebates with one: Link

Can be cheaper if you get better offers on a GTX 970 like already posted on this thread. Also with cheaper CPUs available soon and cheaper Skylake motherboards, should get closer to $600 for the hardware.
 
I would get Intel Skylake CPU, cheaper options than 6600K will be available soon. Here is a build for $715.95 after rebates with one: Link

Can be cheaper if you get better offers on a GTX 970 like already posted on this thread. Also with cheaper CPUs available soon and cheaper Skylake motherboards, should get closer to $600 for the hardware.

Save yourself $65 and go with the GPU I listed above. Maybe consider a slightly higher end mobo (make sure you have enough fan headers and sata ports). I would at least purchase one that has been reviewed online and by actual customers (search Amazon and PCPartPicker reviews).

As I said, most people will tell you to go with Intel. I still stand by my statement however. Since we are going by cheap, and by benchmark. An FX series processor will give you more bang for the buck. I had a lower end i5 processor that cost more than what I paid for my high end FX processor. Benchmark test will vouch for it. A high end intel will of course out perform an AMD in almost all aspects (graphics is actually the one place AMD beats out Intel) but, you will pay nearly 500, probably more, as opposed to 200. On average, intel mobo's are more expensive as well. As far as GPU, I'll need citations, my experience and those I've read usually put the Radeon and the GTX series GPUs at pretty even in terms of quality and power. Water cooling provides a cheap cooling solution that works far better, is affordable (start kits begin at $50 +-) and is far quieter than a bunch of fans. It was more of a suggestions. And yes, you probably could run 650w, but I have a feeling that you will be over the 75% threshold. PSU's peak at their stated wattage, much like a car amp. However, it generally can't sustain that amount for any serious amount of time. 600w give or take is more likely the max, depending on quality of the PSU (I believe 90% of labeled wattage is considered high quality, 80 and above average and below poor). Much like storage, memory and cpu, when you are humming a long on an average day, you dont want to be holding your PSU above 75% capacity. I am guessing with a 650w PSU, you will be close to that. 850w insures that not only are you not tipping over 75%, but you won't top out in instances where you might peak out the system.

First, I greatly appreciate the detailed and civil response. Pretty rare these days. :cheers:

I can't argue against the fact that AMD CPUs are cheaper and assuming you are getting a GTX 960 or Radeon 280 level GPU, won't really hold you back. At that point, I agree 100%. Anything above that and, there just isn't any point to an AMD CPU. Not to mention AMD CPUs are more power hungry and produce more heat as a result (even worse when overclocking).

Benchmarks have no relation to gaming performance, which greatly favors Intel. This also factors into future upgrades. Lets say in the future you get some more money and want to upgrade to a better GPU, 980, 390X, or maybe even a Fury or 980ti. Guess what, you AMD CPU is going to be a bottleneck. Then you will have to replace your CPU and mobo... not a very enjoyable task... also not cost efficient.

Those prices differences are an exaggeration. There are plenty good ~$100 Intel mobos and a 4670/90K can be had for around $225. So I have no idea where you are getting $500 from. We are not talking about 5930k vs FX-8350...

Nothing against AMD GPUs, they have terrific cost to performance ratios. Although, they are definitively more power hungry and run hotter (second link). This has a ripple effect of requiring more cooling and PSU wattage and thus extra costs to lower temps/noise. Still, great bang for the buck.

A Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo is $25 and will quietly cool any i5. Unless you heavily overclock or have a power hungry CPU (ahem... AMD... also i7), watercooling is not necessary. Again, this goes back to the cost of an AMD processor. You may save $50 on the CPU and maybe $25 on the mobo, but that savings will be cut by 30-50% by needing and AIO cooler. AIO coolers are also not guaranteed to be quieter. A bad AIO can be worse than a good air cooler. Again, case layout > cooling solution.

In therms of PSUs... when gaming you are not taxing your PSU at 100% the entire time. First, your CPU is never going to run at its max TDP when gaming. Your GPU will more than likely vary but won't be stuck at 100% draw, 100% of the time. Again, one of the advantages of running Intel/Nvidia is that both components are far more power efficient than AMD's comparative (performance) offerings. A 4690k/GTX 970 could get by with a 550W PSU and never break a sweat. Unless you have like 5 storage drives, 4 fans and overclock everything... you won't get near 90% of 650W. 850W is way way way overkill. I have an i7 4790K and an EVGA 980 TI Classified with an EVGA 850W Gold PSU in my system (note estimated wattage and multiple by 1.2-1.3). The 4790K is at 5Ghz@1.37V and the 980 ti is at 1500/8000Mhz at 1.23V (both measured with a DMM). My PSU fan isn't audible when I play GTA V in 4K (audible range is ~>70% load).

There is no question, in the $500-750 range AMD CPU and GPUs are viable options. However, in my opinion (see above), anything higher than that and it is better to go with an Intel i5 CPU and Nvidia or AMD GPU.
 
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I think I may be able to work in an i5 Haswell and a GTX960 if I'm frugal with other things. Otherwise it might be more like a GTX750 if I can find a reasonably priced i7.

An i7 is unnecessary overkill unless you're going to be doing a lot of high-end video editing -- an i5-4690k will be more than enough for any/all of the PC sims you will encounter, so save the $$$ you'd spend on an i7 and go with a better video card (GTX960 at a minimum, GTX750 is too low-spec, IMO, also don't rule out the AMD options (I've got an AMD R9 290 that I picked up for $200, and it's a monster).
 
This is my build:

i5-4690K (stock speed, stock cooler) CPU
ASUS Z97-M Plus mATX motherboard
G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 2x4GB RAM
ASUS Strix GTX 960 2GB graphics card
Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SSD
Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD
Fractal Design Core 1300 mATX case plus the two fans it came with
Corsair CS 450M 80+ Gold PSU.

It's practically silent even with three wide open fan ports (note to self: remember to blank the fan ports ASAP!), it boots faster than my monitor wakes up from standby, it runs everything I've tried (which includes Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, Raceroom: Racing Experience and Dirt Rally) at high settings (with one or two dropped to medium, and I rarely use anti-aliasing because you don't really need it on a 23" 1080p monitor) at a pretty stable 60fps.

So my personal recommendation is to skip the 970, it's really not worth the money if you're just using one 1080p 60Hz monitor. If you have anything more than that then yeah, the 970 is worthwhile, but otherwise I'd recommend holding off on spending that much until Nvidia release a card that really is 4GB and really does support DirectX 12 - the current ones don't, not fully, anyway. It's not a huge deal but still, if you want a card to last three or four years then you're better off waiting (in my opinion, others - often existing GTX 970 owners - will disagree).

On the AMD vs. Intel/Nvidia subject, I find it hard to spend that much on something I can't fully trust. The reason I switched from ATI (as they were then called) to Nvidia was because Rage released while I was planning my build and it just refused to work on AMD hardware for ages - which was amusing given that I grew up using ATI Rage graphics cards - so I thought no, I'll buy Nvidia. Since then there have been a multitude of examples of games that struggle on AMD hardware. You may say "yeah, but that's graphics cards, CPUs are different" - look up how well MGS V ran on AMD CPUs in launch week. I value reliability a lot (especially when it comes to a platform with a practically infinite number of configurations) and so far I've not had problems with Intel/Nvidia.

That's just my own experience, though, I'm sure you'll find people saying the opposite.
 
Yeah I built an AMD system once... ONCE. That was by far the worst PC I had ever built. The thing was a constant pain in the arse. I admit though that I have toyed with the idea of trying again for this simply due to price, but always decide in the end that I would rather wait if I need to so I can stick with Intel/Nvidia.

The biggest thing I see in the difference between the 960/970 is 128/256bit but the price is about $100~ish difference. However, since my budget seems to continue to shrink, along with my confidence that I'll actually get a green light from the wife to do it, the 960 will probably be the deal.
 
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