Vga box that works with gt4's 1080i res?

[shabby]

Not sure if this belongs in this forum but i did a search and found nothing on this subject.
Im basically looking for some kind of vga box that'll work with gt4's 1080i output and perfectly display it on my monitor(fw900). I've seen some generic vga box's but there was no mention of 1080i support at all.
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Kris Radke]

Not sure if this belongs in this forum but i did a search and found nothing on this subject.
Im basically looking for some kind of vga box that'll work with gt4's 1080i output and perfectly display it on my monitor(fw900). I've seen some generic vga box's but there was no mention of 1080i support at all.
Any input would be appreciated.

As I understand the PS2 is incapable of displaying 1080i res. The limitation is in the HARDWARE OF THE PS2. Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone, but I have read the PS2 manual, and I think that the manual pretty much says the same thing.

Related topic: you get a noticeably better picture when you use component hook ups. They are a must for me.

 

[the Interceptor]

The PS2 is capable of 1080i ouput, and there are VGA boxes that can handle it, such as this one: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=219&products_id=4233&

I can't guarantee that your monitor can though. And you have to use a component cable, which is to be bought separately.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Kris Radke]

The PS2 is capable of 1080i ouput, and there are VGA boxes that can handle it, such as this one: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=219&products_id=4233&

I can't guarantee that your monitor can though. And you have to use a component cable, which is to be bought separately.

Regards
the Interceptor

Are you sure? I bought a monitor with the capability, and there is NO noticeable difference between any of the three display modes for me, normal, 480, or 1080i. I am SURE that my PS2 manual says that the hardware of the PS2 is INCAPABLE of a 1080i output. I will look for the exact page in my manual today after work. I think page 13 seems to ring a bell for some reason...

later

 

[the Interceptor]

Yes, I'm 100% sure. I know that the manual of the PS2 says that it is not capable of putting out 1080i. However, Sony didn't seem to think that anybody would ever be able to get it as far as PD did. And if it couldn't, why would they bother and program a 1080i mode for a PS2-only game?

And I am 100% sure that it is 1080i, because my tv says so when I activate it:



(note: it says "pc" because I use the vga input of the tv, as I'm running the above linked vga adapter)

However, the game is not running with 1920x1080 native pixels, it's just upscaled internally. Therefor, it does look better than with the standard 480i, but not as much as the leap from standard tv to hdtv does.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[wfooshee]

Are you sure? I bought a monitor with the capability, and there is NO noticeable difference between any of the three display modes for me, normal, 480, or 1080i. I am SURE that my PS2 manual says that the hardware of the PS2 is INCAPABLE of a 1080i output. I will look for the exact page in my manual today after work. I think page 13 seems to ring a bell for some reason...

later

The PS2 won't go to 1080i unless the game switches into that mode. You can't set it up as a default, it won't power up in 1080i, you can't play movies in 1080, etc. The NA NTSC GT4 (and Tourist Trophy) have a 1080i mode. And you need the compnent cable set to use it.

 

[harrytuttle]

The PS2 won't go to 1080i unless the game switches into that mode. You can't set it up as a default, it won't power up in 1080i, you can't play movies in 1080, etc. The NA NTSC GT4 (and Tourist Trophy) have a 1080i mode. And you need the compnent cable set to use it.

Right, but just to clarify futher, you need a specific version of the PS2. I'm not 100% sure which ones can do this, but I'm pretty sure the new slimline can (SPCH-7000). Those earlier than SPCH-5000 can not (nor can they do 480p).

 

[the Interceptor]

Right, but just to clarify futher, you need a specific version of the PS2. I'm not 100% sure which ones can do this, but I'm pretty sure the new slimline can (SPCH-7000). Those earlier than SPCH-5000 can not (nor can they do 480p).

I have a v4 (SCPH-35004 = earlier than the 5000 range), and my PS2 obviously works fine with 480p and 1080i.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Solid Lifters]

When I connect to my HDTV set via VGA, it wont say what the resolution is. I have to use what the device is reading what its outputing.

I wish the PS3 had a VGA connection. That would be awesome.

 

[Kris Radke]

I will check to see what my tv 'says' the resolution is, but it really doesn't matter if the tv says a million pixels per square inch, because I went through this whole mess when I first bought my PS2 and tried it with the other two tv's that I had, a 42" HD Plasma (1080i capable), and a 42" HD projection tv (1080i capable). The HD setting on my PS2 produced numeral artifacts, and the normal and 480p settings didn't look any different to me at all. Now there was a big difference in the upgrade to component cables, but the PS2 is NOT capable of displaying HD in a better quality than 480p resolution on any of my televisions, even the brand new 32" Samsung LCD (720p capable) that I purchased for GT4.

I think you are wishfully thinking Interceptor, or perhaps your television is "upconverting" or something, because all three of mine look the best in normal or 480p mode. Maybe there is something that I am missing, but I can only believe the GT4 software includes an HD output for the hope that a PS3 would be backwards compatible with the GT4 software and allow it to display a finer resolution.

 

[the Interceptor]

I will check to see what my tv 'says' the resolution is, but it really doesn't matter if the tv says a million pixels per square inch, because I went through this whole mess when I first bought my PS2 and tried it with the other two tv's that I had, a 42" HD Plasma (1080i capable), and a 42" HD projection tv (1080i capable). The HD setting on my PS2 produced numeral artifacts, and the normal and 480p settings didn't look any different to me at all.

Can you describe the term "artifacts" a little closer?

Now there was a big difference in the upgrade to component cables, but the PS2 is NOT capable of displaying HD in a better quality than 480p resolution on any of my televisions, even the brand new 32" Samsung LCD (720p capable) that I purchased for GT4.

You know you must have the component cable for 480p and 1080i, right?

I think you are wishfully thinking Interceptor, or perhaps your television is "upconverting" or something, because all three of mine look the best in normal or 480p mode.

My television doesn't upconvert, it's not even a good one. And the differences between the three modes are not huge, but noticeable. When playing in 480p, you will notice that all the interlace effects disappear. And in 1080i, at least the vertical resolution of the picture is much higher. Still, the mode I prefer is 480p, cause it's the most fluent one when playing.



This picture from another thread compares 480p and 1080i in stills. Compare the shape of the Civics back window. You can easily spot that it has much less staircases in 1080i.

Maybe there is something that I am missing, but I can only believe the GT4 software includes an HD output for the hope that a PS3 would be backwards compatible with the GT4 software and allow it to display a finer resolution.

That's highly unlikely. The PS3 will upscale PSX and PS2 games anyway, so why would they program an imperfect 1080i mode for a console you'll get real 1080p and a new Gran Turismo on anyway?

No, they did do this for the purpose you're trying to gain something from. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the difference is big enough for you, which is a shame. Still, i don't see a technical problem here, so I guess you'll have to stick with what you've got.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Kris Radke]

Can you describe the term "artifacts" a little closer?

You know you must have the component cable for 480p and 1080i, right?
My television doesn't upconvert, it's not even a good one. And the differences between the three modes are not huge, but noticeable. When playing in 480p, you will notice that all the interlace effects disappear. And in 1080i, at least the vertical resolution of the picture is much higher. Still, the mode I prefer is 480p, cause it's the most fluent one when playing.



This picture from another thread compares 480p and 1080i in stills. Compare the shape of the Civics back window. You can easily spot that it has much less staircases in 1080i.

That's highly unlikely. The PS3 will upscale PSX and PS2 games anyway, so why would they program an imperfect 1080i mode for a console you'll get real 1080p and a new Gran Turismo on anyway?

No, they did do this for the purpose you're trying to gain something from. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the difference is big enough for you, which is a shame. Still, i don't see a technical problem here, so I guess you'll have to stick with what you've got.

Regards
the Interceptor

That is an excellent comparison photo, thank you for that, you really can see a difference there. The "artifacts" that I can see are in the timer. The numerals are more distinct and sharper in 480p than in 1080i~ also, the track map in the top left looks blurry in 1080i when compared to 480p. I will have to do some more comparisons of stills like you have shown me.

Of course I know components are required for high resolution.

It appears to me that the 480p is more "distinct" while the 1080i is "blurred" together. I will have to look at the difference some more, as even in your photo the letters on the license plate look better in 480p, but the barbed wire fence definitely looks better on the 1080i shot.

thanks

~last night I noticed for the first time, when racing against a "ghost" in 1080i, the ghost is only constructed of every other horizontal line, like stripes. I'm convinced, the PS2 does NOT display in true 1080i, even though my television shows that in the information box (hell my lcd is only even capable of displaying 1366*720, or 720p), but the PS2 must be performing some type of mixing, or blurring of the edges to make for a 'smoother' picture, but actually less defined than 480p. In your picture above, it is interesting to note how nice the barbed wire fence looks in 1080i when compared to 480p, but the numbers, letters, and maps are always "blurred" or hazy. Anyone with intimate knowledge of television terminology feel free to step in and explain this please.

 

[shabby]

The PS2 is capable of 1080i ouput, and there are VGA boxes that can handle it, such as this one: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=219&products_id=4233&

I can't guarantee that your monitor can though. And you have to use a component cable, which is to be bought separately.

Regards
the Interceptor

Have you used that vga box, it doesnt look like it supports 480i. Wont that be a problem navigating through the menus?

 

[wfooshee]

Right, but just to clarify futher, you need a specific version of the PS2. I'm not 100% sure which ones can do this, but I'm pretty sure the new slimline can (SPCH-7000). Those earlier than SPCH-5000 can not (nor can they do 480p).

Mine is the very first model US PS2, and it does 1080i.

I know it's the first because I thought about modding it, and looking at the sites where you figure out which chip you need, I easily identified my PS2 as the very first generation.

I don't think the DVD player is capable of 480p, though. Don't confuse DVD player settings with game settings; two different configurations.

That is an excellent comparison photo, thank you for that, you really can see a difference there. The "artifacts" that I can see are in the timer. The numerals are more distinct and sharper in 480p than in 1080i~ also, the track map in the top left looks blurry in 1080i when compared to 480p. I will have to do some more comparisons of stills like you have shown me.

Of course I know components are required for high resolution.

It appears to me that the 480p is more "distinct" while the 1080i is "blurred" together. I will have to look at the difference some more, as even in your photo the letters on the license plate look better in 480p, but the barbed wire fence definitely looks better on the 1080i shot.

thanks

~last night I noticed for the first time, when racing against a "ghost" in 1080i, the ghost is only constructed of every other horizontal line, like stripes. I'm convinced, the PS2 does NOT display in true 1080i, even though my television shows that in the information box (hell my lcd is only even capable of displaying 1366*720, or 720p), but the PS2 must be performing some type of mixing, or blurring of the edges to make for a 'smoother' picture, but actually less defined than 480p. In your picture above, it is interesting to note how nice the barbed wire fence looks in 1080i when compared to 480p, but the numbers, letters, and maps are always "blurred" or hazy. Anyone with intimate knowledge of television terminology feel free to step in and explain this please.

You're seeing artifacts of the downconversion of 1080i to 720p. Your set accepts 1080i inputs, but does not display in 1080i, has to downconvert to 720p.

Edit: Rereading your post, I see you said your LCD is 720p, but I don't know what your other sets do. I'm here to tell you, definitively, that the PS2 and NTSC GT4 do display 1080i when it's configured for it. Many people have reported a preference for 480p, as you have. My own set is better in 1080i.

 

[harrytuttle]

Mine is the very first model US PS2, and it does 1080i.

I know it's the first because I thought about modding it, and looking at the sites where you figure out which chip you need, I easily identified my PS2 as the very first generation.

I don't think the DVD player is capable of 480p, though. Don't confuse DVD player settings with game settings; two different configurations.

Just to be sure, see if the TV actually changes resolution when you change resolutions in the game. On most TVs, you'll see the screen flicker and go out for about half a second (Sony TVs, which are quite common, do this very noticeably). If it doesn't do this, then the game is simply changing resolutions in software, but not hardware.

Also, I'm just going by what's been reported online for the last few years:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/393/393371p1.html
http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ps3/
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11280812/Playstation_2.html

Not having seen it myself, I can't comment for sure.

 

[wfooshee]

Just to be sure, see if the TV actually changes resolution when you change resolutions in the game. On most TVs, you'll see the screen flicker and go out for about half a second (Sony TVs, which are quite common, do this very noticeably). If it doesn't do this, then the game is simply changing resolutions in software, but not hardware.

Also, I'm just going by what's been reported online for the last few years:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/393/393371p1.html
http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ps3/
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11280812/Playstation_2.html

Not having seen it myself, I can't comment for sure.

I'm not sure why you have such a hard time accepting this.

It switches my TV to 1080i mode!!!

My set is a Hitachi 4:3, with 5 possible aspect ratio settings.

Aspect 1 is for standard 4:3 programming, full screen.

Aspect 2 is for widescreen 16:9 programming, puts gray letterbox areas at the top and bottom of the screen.

Aspect 3 is like Aspect 1, but zoomed in slightly: a letterboxed program will almost fill the screen, with the edges cut off.

Aspect 4 is similarly zoomed, but for 16:9 programming, also shows gray letterbox borders.

Aspect 5 is a 1080i-mode-only aspect (not even 720p), where it switches to 16:9 and scans ONLY the 16:9 area, to get full HD resolution. The letterbox areas of the screen are black, because they're not even scanned.

1080i programming can be displayed in Aspect 2, but it's downconverted to leave scan lines for the gray letterbox areas.

I get the flicker when it changes to 1080i, and I play in Aspect 5, which is not even a choice on my set unless the source is 1080i. For GT4's menus (areas presented in 480i only) I use Aspect 2 to stay widescreen.

And to repeat my earlier post, 1080i is NOT an available setting in the PS2's hardware configuration menu. You can't set the DVD player to 1080i, although you can set the newer ones to 480p (progressive scan). That may be what's confusing you. Your links point to articles about upconverting DVDs or older games, neither of which applies to in-game mode selection.

It's also possible that the NA GT4 is the only version with 1080i because the US PS2s are the only consoles with it. That's speculation on my part, I don't know it for fact. It would astonish me that the US version did something the home-market console wouldn't do.

 

[the Interceptor]

Have you used that vga box, it doesnt look like it supports 480i. Wont that be a problem navigating through the menus?

Yes, I'm actively using that VGA box, and it does do 480i flawlessly. You need to have a screen that can handle it though. Most TVs can, while computer monitors usually can't.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[harrytuttle]

I'm not sure why you have such a hard time accepting this.

It switches my TV to 1080i mode!!!

Whoah - no need to get all bent out of shape. I was only going by what I've read and what I've been told. If I'd been able to test this myself or with someone else's system (as I said that I wasn't able to), I wouldn't question it.

Aspect 5 is a 1080i-mode-only aspect (not even 720p), where it switches to 16:9 and scans ONLY the 16:9 area, to get full HD resolution. The letterbox areas of the screen are black, because they're not even scanned.

I get the flicker when it changes to 1080i, and I play in Aspect 5, which is not even a choice on my set unless the source is 1080i. For GT4's menus (areas presented in 480i only) I use Aspect 2 to stay widescreen.

What model TV is this? I've never heard of a TV that allows a change of aspects to coincide with changes in resolution. With most displays, you can change aspects with 480i and sometimes 480p; sending anything higher (720p, 1080i, etc.) the display locks to a 16:9 image (which is native for 16:9 displays, compressed anamorphic for 4:3 displays), and a few -- Pioneer, for example -- allow a jump between "full 16:9" and a "zoomed 16:9".

It's just strange that you can manually change resolutions on your TV for the same input resolution. I'm not familiar with Hitachi in the least, though, so I'm interested to know which model this is.

And to repeat my earlier post, 1080i is NOT an available setting in the PS2's hardware configuration menu. You can't set the DVD player to 1080i, although you can set the newer ones to 480p (progressive scan). That may be what's confusing you. Your links point to articles about upconverting DVDs or older games, neither of which applies to in-game mode selection.

Given the reaction I'm getting from some people, that seems the likely cause. I'll have to try this myself.

 

[wfooshee]

Whoah - no need to get all bent out of shape. I was only going by what I've read and what I've been told. If I'd been able to test this myself or with someone else's system (as I said that I wasn't able to), I wouldn't question it.

Just making a little emphasis for fun, didn't mean anything by it. Sorry.

What model TV is this? I've never heard of a TV that allows a change of aspects to coincide with changes in resolution. With most displays, you can change aspects with 480i and sometimes 480p; sending anything higher (720p, 1080i, etc.) the display locks to a 16:9 image (which is native for 16:9 displays, compressed anamorphic for 4:3 displays), and a few -- Pioneer, for example -- allow a jump between "full 16:9" and a "zoomed 16:9".

It's just strange that you can manually change resolutions on your TV for the same input resolution. I'm not familiar with Hitachi in the least, though, so I'm interested to know which model this is.

Where did I say I was changing resolutions? Aspect ratio is not resolution. In an analog signal, there is NO DIFFERENCE between a 16:9 picture and a 4:3 picture. If I have a 4:3 signal and set the TV to 16:9, everything gets squished top to bottom, circles become flattened ellipses. If I have a 16:9 signal and set the TV to 4:3, everything gets squished side-to-side, circles become vertical ellipses. There is nothing in a standard analog TV signal to indicate the correct aspect ratio; you have to set your TV to match the source. "Digital" cable is the same, just a digitized version of a standard analog signal. Only when you get into true digital (HD) TV can you actually assume a 16:9 aspect ratio to be correct, or if you have a wide-screen set, you can set your DVD player to 16:9 to match.

Personally, I can't STAND to go to a friend's house and see a standard picture stretched out on a wide-screen set. I switched a friend's set to 4:3 to watch a ball game a while back (letterboxes on the sides of the screen), and he got really mad at me for it, said he had a wide-screen set and he was going to watch it "how it's supposed to be." He really thought the little flathead players were displayed correctly! Now, switching to ESPN-HD, widescreen is correct.

I actually have no 16:9 or HD sources other than GT4 on the PS2. My cable company only has 2 non-movie HD channels, so I'm not going to pay for a digital cable upgrade, then an HD upgrade, just for ESPN-HD and Discovery-HD. I could get the networks on antenna here, but who wants to spend that kind of money, either, for an antenna AND a tuner?

 

[panjandrum]

[QUOTE I'm here to tell you, definitively, that the PS2 and NTSC GT4 do display 1080i when it's configured for it. Many people have reported a preference for 480p, as you have. My own set is better in 1080i.[/QUOTE]

My DLP projector can accept Component HD input up to 1080i, but can not actually display the full 1080i resolution, so it downsamples from there. Despite the fact that it has to downsample the higher resolution of 1080i, it still looks vastly better than when the projector is upsampling 480i or 480p to 800x600. The difference is considerable for me in favor of 1080i.

 

[Kris Radke]

Mine is the very first model US PS2, and it does 1080i.

I know it's the first because I thought about modding it, and looking at the sites where you figure out which chip you need, I easily identified my PS2 as the very first generation.

I don't think the DVD player is capable of 480p, though. Don't confuse DVD player settings with game settings; two different configurations.




You're seeing artifacts of the downconversion of 1080i to 720p. Your set accepts 1080i inputs, but does not display in 1080i, has to downconvert to 720p.

Edit: Rereading your post, I see you said your LCD is 720p, but I don't know what your other sets do. I'm here to tell you, definitively, that the PS2 and NTSC GT4 do display 1080i when it's configured for it. Many people have reported a preference for 480p, as you have. My own set is better in 1080i.

I'm sorry I was mistaken, my televisions' resolution (the LCD that I regularily game on) is 1366*768, but it will say on the display when viewing HD material 1920*1080i, which I'm not sure if I understand, my dad says resolution and display are two different things, I don't think he knows any more than anyone else on this post though... I think he's guessing too.

I think its time for me to do some more researching for myself. Thanks.