Washington Redskins Name Controversy

[JMoney]

For around a year or so some have been pushing for the NFL Football team, the Washington Redskins, to change their name because they believe "Redskin" to be an offensive term for a Native American. Where do you stand? I'll present my opinion later; I want to keep the OP unbiased.

 

[Joel]

I think they should change the name. It's not a huge deal and I wouldn't want government to get involved but I just have a hard time seeing it as a good thing to hold the team's history above using a slur as the name. Call me overly PC I guess but it's just an odd idea to me that white people naming their team after a slur that white people used should continue to be OK. I don't think anyone would consider it OK to start a new team with that name today, but because the team's been around since the 30's it seems more legitimate.

Inb4 "I don't find Yankees/Patriots/Cowboys offensive, what's the big deal?"

 

[Blitz24]

I think they should change the name. It's not a huge deal and I wouldn't want government to get involved but I just have a hard time seeing it as a good thing to hold the team's history above using a slur as the name. Call me overly PC I guess but it's just an odd idea to me that white people naming their team after a slur that white people used should continue to be OK. I don't think anyone would consider it OK to start a new team with that name today, but because the team's been around since the 30's it seems more legitimate.

Inb4 "I don't find Yankees/Patriots/Cowboys offensive, what's the big deal?"

The issue I have with it is that the people leading the petition to start with (from what I have heard) were NOT Native American groups. Instead, they were "politically-correct" individuals who felt that the team name needed to change. If I recall correctly, the Native Americans have said before that they do not have an issue with the name, until now, when these same people convinced them that they should have a problem with the name. If it was 100% from the Native Americans then I would completely be more in favor of the name change, but since (I believe) it isn't, I would prefer that the name doesn't change because a few non-Native Americans are trying to tell Native Americans to be offended.

 

[Tornado]

That it went from "pretty much no one cares" to a national "I cannot believe that this injustice is allowed" overblown outrage over a period of about 2 weeks over something everyone in America knew about forever makes me think the entire thing is just AstroTurfing from people with nothing better to do with their time.

 

[JMoney]

Politics is ruining sports. And as a Redskins fan, all this is really making me hate politics.

I think the controversy is mostly fueled by political correctness, but more importantly, I'm willing to bet most proponents of the name change aren't even football fans.

In any case, the reason they're called the Redskins is because their coach back in the 30's was a Native American himself. The name sounds disrespectful but in truth it was originally used out of respect. A poll found that 90% of Native Americans found the name unoffensive, and out of the 10% that were offended, many of them probably don't care about a football team using it.

Some commentators are now referring to the team simply as "Washington" and refusing to use the word "Redskin". That's as ridiculous as calling Voldemort "He-who-must-not-be-named".

The bottom line is that Dan Snyder, the team owner, is refusing to change the name. It won't change unless the team changes ownership within the next couple of years while people still care about the controversy.

 

[BobK]

This question has come up before and people pretty much didn't pay attention to it.

@Blitz24 and @Tornado pretty much summed things up, but I'll add the part-"Native Americans" i know personally have no problem with it. Probably not a representative sampling, but there it is.

I put the words "native American" in quotes because I personally have a problem with the way the phrase is used. I was born here, as were my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Yet there are those who claim I am not a native American.

 

[JMoney]

This question has come up before and people pretty much didn't pay attention to it.

@Blitz24 and @Tornado pretty much summed things up, but I'll add the part-"Native Americans" i know personally have no problem with it. Probably not a representative sampling, but there it is.

I put the words "native American" in quotes because I personally have a problem with the way the phrase is used. I was born here, as were my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Yet there are those who claim I am not a native American.

Yeah but there's really no other way to refer to them, except Indian, which doesn't make any sense because Indians come from India.

 

[BobK]

Yeah but there's really no other way to refer to them, except Indian, which doesn't make any sense because Indians come from India.

I'm sorry but I don't go along with the "let's misuse a word because offhand we can't come up with an alternative" mindset here.

No, I take that back. I'm not sorry at all.

 

[JMoney]

I'm sorry but I don't go along with the "let's misuse a word because offhand we can't come up with an alternative" mindset here.

No, I take that back. I'm not sorry at all.

Well then what do you think they should be called?

 

[Northstar]

I've always disliked the name (just personal taste, nothing to do with the current debate), so I do think it should be changed.

Having said that, I don't really like that the government has been getting involved as it sets a dangerous precedent that allows them to decide what businesses are allowed to call themselves.

Well then what do you think they should be called?

Well, if they wanted a name that still carries some history they could go with the Senators, they briefly existed as an NFL team in 1921. Of course if you don't like that there are plenty of other choices just using the government as inspiration, I'll even give a few examples.

Commanders (my personal choice)
Presidents
Bombers
Americans

 

[The Bman]

If anything they should change the logo to a redskin potato. That would clear up any controversy and allow the team to keep the name.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yeah but there's really no other way to refer to them, except Indian, which doesn't make any sense because Indians come from India.

????

No, that simply isn't correct. Perhaps you could refer to them by the names they wish to be known as? After all they were there long before the white language-makers and some communities find the ("Native Americans") tautology equally offensive. That's not meant to be inflammatory; simply an observation.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't see the name as a problem. Insisting that it's so bad may be a worse thing. Turn the term from negative to positive, or just ignore it. It's not meant to be harmful or anything in this context. I don't even make the connection between Redskins and Native Americans when I read the name.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Washington. ..

Presidents
Bombers
Americans

No, no, no, no....

 

[JMoney]

I've always disliked the name (just personal taste, nothing to do with the current debate), so I do think it should be changed.

Having said that, I don't really like that the government has been getting involved as it sets a dangerous precedent that allows them to decide what businesses are allowed to call themselves.



Well, if they wanted a name that still carries some history they could go with the Senators, they briefly existed as an NFL team in 1921. Of course if you don't like that there are plenty of other choices just using the government as inspiration, I'll even give a few examples.

Commanders (my personal choice)
Presidents
Bombers
Americans

I meant what to call the group of people since you don't like "Native American", not the football team.

 

[Dennisch]

We've had a similar discussion here in the Netherlands about the nickname of the biggest football club here, Ajax. Their nickname is jews. The supporters always chant Joden, Joden (Jews Jews). It sparked some anti semitic chant from the opponents in the past but that isn't here anymore.

But a while ago the PC crowd decided that it was derogatory against jews to shout Jews Jews.

Not a single jew complained about it. Never did. Only the socks in sandals crowd did.

And I remember seeing a documentary about the Redskins a while ago where they interviewed Indians, Native Americans or whatever floats your boat.
Again not a single complaint could be found amongst them. Only the same white skinned sock in sandal crowd complained about it.

So, get over it and stop this silly complaining.

Also.

....

 

[AnthonyD1993]

As a traditional white male, I don't see how Indian is offensive. The PC crowd might go after Cleveland for the logo, but the name Indians itself isn't really offensive. What is moronic is that they (again, PC crowd) might go after the name itself.

Some people went after my high school just for being called the Indians. I know that Eastern Michigan University used to be called the Hurons but changed the name to Eagles a few years ago. Central Michigan University is still called the Chippewas, and they are still that because the Chippewa Indians allow them to use the name.

EDIT: Deleted part of the post as I've done some reading that contradicts my opinion. I will put it in another post if I can get the link to work.

 

[TenEightyOne]

As a traditional white male, I don't see how Indian is offensive. The PC crowd might go after Cleveland for the logo, but the name Indians itself isn't really offensive.

And there's the problem, it's just that a lot of people don't see it.

You don't see how it's offensive, fair enough. Can you name any reasons why other people find it offensive?

 

[Dennisch]

And there's the problem, it's just that a lot of people don't see it.

You don't see how it's offensive, fair enough. Can you name any reasons why other people find it offensive?

If the actual red skinned people don't find it offensive, why should the whole situation even exist?

 

[fatkrakr]

We've had a similar discussion here in the Netherlands about the nickname of the biggest football club here, Ajax. Their nickname is jews. The supporters always chant Joden, Joden (Jews Jews). It sparked some anti semitic chant from the opponents in the past but that isn't here anymore.

But a while ago the PC crowd decided that it was derogatory against jews to shout Jews Jews.

Not a single jew complained about it. Never did. Only the socks in sandals crowd did.

And I remember seeing a documentary about the Redskins a while ago where they interviewed Indians, Native Americans or whatever floats your boat.
Again not a single complaint could be found amongst them. Only the same white skinned sock in sandal crowd complained about it.

So, get over it and stop this silly complaining.

Also.

....

Why is it every time a pro team gets in trouble for their Native American themes do people have to drag Chief Wahoo into it? No one ever starts their complaints with him, but he always gets thrown under the bus.

 

[Sanji Himura]

With Native American in my bloodline (Blackfoot and Cheyenne), I don't find the term offensive because I understand the history behind the term. As usual, however, the left in my country (starting with Dingy Harry Reid who started this push) is trying to change the English language, and it applies here.

 

[Dennisch]

Why is it every time a pro team gets in trouble for their Native American themes do people have to drag Chief Wahoo into it? No one ever starts their complaints with him, but he always gets thrown under the bus.

The PC crowd will go after him too.

 

[TenEightyOne]

With Native American in my bloodline (Blackfoot and Cheyenne), I don't find the term offensive because I understand the history behind the term. As usual, however, the left in my country (starting with Dingy Harry Reid who started this push) is trying to change the English language, and it applies here.

And "dinge" isn't a racist term there either, I suppose? The other problem is that some could argue it's only your country because of the white invasion, from that perspective they might even say it's not your country.

If the actual red skinned people don't find it offensive, why should the whole situation even exist?

Because they're the invaders, the only people who actually have red skin are white-skinned people who've been in the sun too long. You don't really think that the aboriginal people have red skin do you?

 

[Dennisch]

And "dinge" isn't a racist term there either, I suppose? The other problem is that some could argue it's only your country because of the white invasion, from that perspective they might even say it's not your country.



Because they're the invaders, the only people who actually have red skin are white-skinned people who've been in the sun too long. You don't really think that the aboriginal people have red skin do you?

You don't really think that black people are actually black, or white people are actually white, do you? Apart from emo's and wannabee vampires of course.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You don't really think that black people are actually black, or white people are actually white, do you? Apart from emo's and wannabee vampires of course.

No I don't, do you believe that red people are actually red?

 

[Dennisch]

Only if they have been in the sunshine for too long.


Edit.

Has this new found energy for the discussion anything to do with the latest South Park episode or is South Park really that much up to date that they can jump the bandwagon without any delay?

 

[Tyrone B]

What I just want to know is why people seem to love making a huge ruckus over a name. It's just not that serious.

 

[Northstar]

Has this new found energy for the discussion anything to do with the latest South Park episode or is South Park really that much up to date that they can jump the bandwagon without any delay?

It started a few months ago, South Park only makes their episodes a week or so before they air so they can usually be fairly good with current events.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

And there's the problem, it's just that a lot of people don't see it.

You don't see how it's offensive, fair enough. Can you name any reasons why other people find it offensive?

I can- to a certain, limited extent. For starters, going back to when the Europeans colonized in what is now the US, the settlers looked at them as lower tiered people. The Natives were later forced off of their land and faced assimilation as well-usually by force. They were also always looked at as villains in movies which further gave them a bad rep. In fact, today, some people are in shock because Indians can actually speak fluently (most movies made them appear as people with simple vocabularies). There are probably a zillion more reason why Native Americans find the term offensive, but those are a couple that I know of.

EDIT: Had a link referring to the OP, but link was broken and therefore removed.

 

[fatkrakr]

What I just want to know is why people seem to love making a huge ruckus over a name. It's just not that serious.

Because there is a couple of lawyers who have to make their money somehow. In America you can file all the BS cases you like without any repercussions, weather it is a BS case or a legitimate case doesn't matter. Just pay me.