What’s the most balanced track for power vs handling cars at around the same PP?

[AtomicMclaren]

What’s the most balanced track for handling vs power?

 

[Meythia]

In my opinion this is depending on the target PP and maybe even the pool of cars you want to consider.
Fuji full course with Gr.2 cars seemed pretty balanced within BoP, but that is not the same PP.

Alsace village (full course) propably provides the most general balance over a variety of cars.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

From my experience mostly running low powered road cars, power almost always wins out. Almost all tracks in GT7 have some f-off straight that leans towards power cars. The only exception to this I can think of is Horse Thief Mile Reverse.

That said, some of my favourite tracks to test cars include Streets of Willow and Bathrust, although I'm starting to warm up to Watkins Glen and Deep Forest.

 

[floydant]

I like Brands Hatch and Tsukuba, they seem balanced to me in terms of favouring car types.
I test European cars at Brands, Asian at Tsukuba and American at Watkins Glen.
I log my FL and also rank them A-C based on how much I like to drive them.
The cars I like the best (approx 100 out of all the non-GR cars) go in a pool to be timed at Nurburg 24hr.

This is also my pool of cars for race events.

It's like I've been prepping all this time for the new weekly events! Worked out very well!

Note.
I know Nurburg is not balanced, I do that for fun, not science!

 

[Mafio]

I feel like Suzuka Full has a nice mix of everything on one track. I might be biased, I just like the track.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I use Kyoto Yamagiwa+Miyabi for testing. It probably does favour power, but there's 3 different radius high speed corners, two kinks of vary speed, a number of switchbacks with turns 8 and 14 penalising twitchy cars quite a lot, and the uphill esses. It's a bit like a longer Suzuka.

 

[wheelhp]

I personally use Laguna Seca to test my cars for a variety of reasons: It's a fairly fast flowing track, can take a couple laps quickly enough and it's never a bore, also the corkscrew will really test out your setup, you'll know if the balance is bad or not by the time you finish a lap. It's a deceptive little track.

 

[RacingFan1]

Suzuka and Spa, are two tracks that always require both good handling and good power

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Not sure I really understand the question but I'd say Nordschleife. So many different corners, long straights, uphill sections....you definitely need both, power and good handling here to be fast.

 

[05XR8]

Could be any track. Can take the Best Motoring route by using Tsukuba and Fuji. Road Atlanta, The Glen, Bathurst.

I use unorthodox tracks like Autopolis and DTG. Those give me enough information with varying camber, corners, braking zones.

As Meythia said, depends what PP. Kei cars? Classic cars? Purpose built race cars?

 

[Johan]

I’d also say ”Nordschleife.” It is long, but offers everything (exept run off areas) In a race it’s fast and flowy enough to make up for (minor) variations in strengths and weaknesses.

A ”grippy car” has as much of a chance as a more powerful one, as long as the net performance is more or less the same.
Here, You cannot optimize a car for handling or speed.
Even more so in long races when fuel consumption and tire life comes to play.

A rewarding track, but a devious monster of one.

 

[Sakinen]

A track with many (and long) straights (like Sarthe, Monza, some Tokyo variants, High Speed Ring) is advantageous to highspeed cars, while a track with tight corners and short straight (like Tsukuba, Nurburgring GP) is advantageous to good handling cars, so we need something in between.
There are many choices. Fuji, Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, Road Atlanta etc.

Fuji is a good choice. It has a very long straight (1540 m), and both fast and tight corners. High speed and good handling are required.

Another choice could be Road Atlanta (one of my favorites). 1275 m straight, medium speed corners and the challenging esses sector.
I'm running a test for >650 PP non racing cars in Road Atlanta.

 

[dabz343]

I always go to Spa to benchmark cars. It has a lovely mix of corners and cambers, and with one of the best straights ever, it gives a rare opportunity for a powerful car to stretch its legs. But don't let sector 1 fool you into thinking HP is all you need. Sectors 2 and 3 are a handful if your car does not possess agility.

 

[Def-Infinity]

Funny thing, I made a spreadsheet for trying to "calculate" what would be a good test track back in GT Sport. I figured it would help me get a better idea of what people would enjoy in lobbies for hosting.

Horse Thief Mile was a top tier circuit according to it, so you knew something was wrong

So attempt #2 at it, I guess. Lets try to get something more tailored to what this game provides:

Complexity Score: ( ( [Corners per Mile] * [Elevation(mi) per corner] ) / [%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] ) * 100
Test Track Score: [# of Corners] * [Length of Circuit] / ((ABS([%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] - [Median: All %Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length]) * ABS( [Complexity Score] - [Median: All Complexity Scores]) + 0.01)

There is no upper bound for a score. Top 10 test tracks, according to the new changes... as of 12/9/2023 11:18:39 GMT

Circuit Location & Layout	Test Track Score
Circuit de Sainte-Croix - C	5265
Deep Forest Raceway	4752
Kyoto Driving Park - Yamagiwa	4575
Sardegna - Road Track - A	3312
Autodrome Lago Maggiore - West	2456
24 Heures du Mans race track	2146
Tokyo Expressway - South Clockwise	2076
Autopolis International Racing Course	2030
Dragon Trail - Gardens	1787
Tokyo Expressway - South Counterclockwise	1468

I'm pretty surprised to see none of the Nurburgring configurations on the list. but to be fair, it is sort of a unique circuit compared to everything else in the game. Real-world: Nordschleife or Catalunya would be used for testing.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Funny thing, I made a spreadsheet for trying to "calculate" what would be a good test track back in GT Sport. I figured it would help me get a better idea of what people would enjoy in lobbies for hosting.

Horse Thief Mile was a top tier circuit according to it, so you knew something was wrong

So attempt #2 at it, I guess. Lets try to get something more tailored to what this game provides:

Complexity Score: ( ( [Corners per Mile] * [Elevation(mi) per corner] ) / [%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] ) * 100
Test Track Score: [# of Corners] * [Length of Circuit] / ((ABS([%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] - [Median: All %Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length]) * ABS( [Complexity Score] - [Median: All Complexity Scores]) + 0.01)

There is no upper bound for a score. Top 10 test tracks, according to the new changes...

Circuit Location & Layout	Test Track Score
Circuit de Sainte-Croix - C	6239
Deep Forest Raceway	4752
Sardegna - Road Track - A	3509
Sardegna - Road Track - B	3146
24 Heures du Mans race track	2451
Autopolis International Racing Course	2357
Kyoto Driving Park - Yamagiwa	2313
Tokyo Expressway - South Outer Loop/South Clockwise	2309
Dragon Trail - Gardens	2019
Suzuka Circuit	1133

I'm pretty surprised to see none of the Nurburgring configurations on the list. but to be fair, it is sort of a unique circuit compared to everything else in the game. Real-world: Nordschleife or Catalunya would be used for testing.

How would GrandValley score?

 

[Batschisane52]

Horse Thief Mile was a top tier circuit according to it, so you knew something was wrong

There is nothing wrong with the Horse Thief Mile... the two smaller tracks at Willow Springs(The Streets & Horse Thief Mile) when it comes to car testing for lower powered vehicles(let's say as long they are below 600PP)

And there are no better tracks in the game when you wanna set up custom races where old american muscle cars compete against small old cars like Mini Coopers and Alfa Romeo Giulia GTs (like they did back in the day in some historic touring car series)

 

[eran0004]

Complexity Score: ( ( [Corners per Mile] * [Elevation(mi) per corner] ) / [%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] ) * 100
Test Track Score: [# of Corners] * [Length of Circuit] / ((ABS([%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] - [Median: All %Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length]) * ABS( [Complexity Score] - [Median: All Complexity Scores]) + 0.01)

(Corners/mile) * (elevation/corners) = elevation/mile, so you effectively lose the corners from the complexity score.

Also, multiplying by elevation is probably bad, since a flat circuit would get a complexity score of 0 regardless of how many corners it has. It’s probably better to take the mean of the values.

 

[AtomicMclaren]

I keep seeing Suzuka pop up, so I’ve decided to try out some mid tier cars on this track to try it out. Indeed so far the balance has been rather good cars with similar PP that are staggered power vs handling both seem to finish within around 1 second of each other. I’m gonna try out Watkins Glenn and Nurburgring as well, tried Laguna and the spread highly favored handling.

 

[llNovall]

I use Kyoto Yamagiwa+Miyabi for testing. It probably does favour power, but there's 3 different radius high speed corners, two kinks of vary speed, a number of switchbacks with turns 8 and 14 penalising twitchy cars quite a lot, and the uphill esses. It's a bit like a longer Suzuka.
View attachment 1309431

I'd say the above, or I typically use Lago Maggiore GP. High speed S's, long back stretch with a downhill braking zone, low speed corners in first sector, medium speed corners in last sector.....this track seems to always be very balanced across the field of cars.

 

[Def-Infinity]

How would GrandValley score?

Grand Valley - Highway 1: 162 (Rank 37 of 77)
Grand Valley - South: 6 (Rank 76 of 77)

Their scores are mostly hurt by their complexity values, which are amongst the highest in the list.
It turns out I am missing Sardegna - Windmills and a few Lago Maggiore layouts, so I will have to add that in.Rallycross and tarmac/asphalt should probably also be isolated from each other.

(Corners/mile) * (elevation/corners) = elevation/mile, so you effectively lose the corners from the complexity score.

Also, multiplying by elevation is probably bad, since a flat circuit would get a complexity score of 0 regardless of how many corners it has. It’s probably better to take the mean of the values.

Its definitely the part that needs the most work, since it also does not consider the types of corners on the track or the length and total # of straights. More long straights should probably reduce the complexity value. Having more types of corners should increase it, etc. For a different iteration, though, if I ever get around to it.
--
We can definitely try averaging corners/mile and elevation/corners to see what would happen:

Circuit Location & Layout	TT Score (using average of Corners/Mile and Elevation/Corner)
Deep Forest Raceway	4752
Dragon Trail - Gardens	4544
Tokyo Expressway - South Outer Loop/South Clockwise	373
Sardegna - Road Track - A	146
Circuit de Sainte-Croix - C	88
Autopolis International Racing Course	14

So the problem here is making sure that the elevation/corner is weighed in an appropriate way compared to corner/miles. That's doable with enough input from others.

There is nothing wrong withe the two smaller tracks at Willow Springs(The Streets & Horse Thief mile) when it comes to car testing for lower powered vehicles(let's say as long they are below 600PP)

And there are no better tracks in the game when you wanna set up custom races where old american muscle cars compete against small old cars like Mini Coopers and Alfa Romeo Giulia GTs (like the did in some historic touring car series)

I don't disagree with that at all.

Its important to emphasize that what constitutes a good, balanced test track depends on the circuits you expect to drive on as well as the class of car being driven. Pretty much all corners are effectively "shorter" for a car that handles well and all straights are "longer" for cars with less power.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Interlagos is my favorite track to benchmark cars on.

Big Willow is an underrated track as well

 

[dabz343]

Big Willow is an underrated track as well

I will second the recommendation for Big Willow. Mastering that last decreasing radius corner will give you gobs of confidence.

 

[Kurlee66]

I test all my road cars at Streets of Willow- Reverse with a standing start. Really a lot of fun and challenging to get it right. Smaller cars you can push harder and more powerful cars you have to feather the throttle more so it balances the field.

 

[Boxster]

Funny thing, I made a spreadsheet for trying to "calculate" what would be a good test track back in GT Sport. I figured it would help me get a better idea of what people would enjoy in lobbies for hosting.

Horse Thief Mile was a top tier circuit according to it, so you knew something was wrong

So attempt #2 at it, I guess. Lets try to get something more tailored to what this game provides:

Complexity Score: ( ( [Corners per Mile] * [Elevation(mi) per corner] ) / [%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] ) * 100
Test Track Score: [# of Corners] * [Length of Circuit] / ((ABS([%Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length] - [Median: All %Longest-Straight-to-Total-Length]) * ABS( [Complexity Score] - [Median: All Complexity Scores]) + 0.01)

There is no upper bound for a score. Top 10 test tracks, according to the new changes... as of 12/9/2023 11:18:39 GMT

Circuit Location & Layout	Test Track Score
Circuit de Sainte-Croix - C	5265
Deep Forest Raceway	4752
Kyoto Driving Park - Yamagiwa	4575
Sardegna - Road Track - A	3312
Autodrome Lago Maggiore - West	2456
24 Heures du Mans race track	2146
Tokyo Expressway - South Clockwise	2076
Autopolis International Racing Course	2030
Dragon Trail - Gardens	1787
Tokyo Expressway - South Counterclockwise	1468

I'm pretty surprised to see none of the Nurburgring configurations on the list. but to be fair, it is sort of a unique circuit compared to everything else in the game. Real-world: Nordschleife or Catalunya would be used for testing.

I am surprised Spa is not on the list.

 

[MineralBlurb7]

I love Tsukuba for working out setups. It’s short so you can benchmark easily, and the technical section in the middle really puts a car through its paces. The only things missing are hills and off camber corners.

 

[Batschisane52]

I love Tsukuba for working out setups. It’s short so you can benchmark easily, and the technical section in the middle really puts a car through its paces. The only things missing are hills and off camber corners.

A really long straight is missing as well, but it is perfect for smaller and less powered cars...

 

[B80]

A really long straight is missing as well, but it is perfect for smaller and less powered cars...

Yeah it's a good circuit to test handling capabilities, but not ideal once you get to around 700pp imo, as its a bit too tight, intricate for high end power cars.

 

[AtomicMclaren]

So after some testing with a few cars around the same PP the winning track for balance so far is Watkins Glen. Super smooth track with great power and handling sections.

Ended up with a spread of less that 1 second per lap between power/handling cars. I’ll test a couple more but that’ll be hard to beat. Next closest was indeed Suzuka with a spread of about 1.9 seconds between the cars.

 

[dabz343]

Off topic a bit...but I would really appreciate it if PD could intelligently deconstruct all of the premier circuits around the world and build an algorithmic formula for what constitutes a greatly balanced track.

After all, they are producing unique GT tracks like Trial and GV, and I'm certain they are relying on some sort of data to guide their design choices. PD should be master track architects ideally. But having said that, they are quite good IMO, but perhaps there is an opportunity to elevate things a bit and bring to fans new concepts that not only showcase balance, but skewed and biased versions that are a treat to drive.

 

[floydant]

So after some testing with a few cars around the same PP the winning track for balance so far is Watkins Glen. Super smooth track with great power and handling sections.

Ended up with a spread of less that 1 second per lap between power/handling cars. I’ll test a couple more but that’ll be hard to beat. Next closest was indeed Suzuka with a spread of about 1.9 seconds between the cars.

The reason I use this track as one of my testers is corners 2-4 gives a good indication of a cars turning ability under high speed acceleration. A good car should be able to take these at full throttle. If it can't, it's an indication it's handling doesn't match it's power.
It is one of my favourite tracks as well.

One important factor in a testing track is the testers familiarity and how consistent you can be, to take out that factor when testing.
That also informed my choices. Plus relatively short ones are better for this reason.