What affects tire wear? Is driving style a big factor?

[Bulldozer]

So I've done one enduro and I'm looking at a couple others, and obviously tire wear is a huge factor. Different cars use up the tires at different rates, and I'm trying to figure out what factors are important.

Which cars get the most out of a set of tires? The lightest ones like the Elise or Speedster or Mini? What the record number of laps you've managed to get?

Weight must be the biggest factor. The C5R is hell on front tires, despite being a powerful FR car. So the weight of that V8 over the front tires must be the reason.

Drivetrain, of course. Despite the example of the Vette, don't the drive wheels wear more quickly?

I'm sure extreme settings of toe and camber would wreck tire life, but what about conservative settings? Will a -1.0 toe-in make a serious difference in how long tires last? What about front camber of 3.0 (just for example).

Brake balance? With ABS the tires never lock up, but could you get more even tire wear between the front and rear by changing the brake balance. (It's probably not worth it though, since handling it more important.)

Finally, and this is what I'm most curious about, how much can you conserve tires by the way you drive? And how do you do it? I'm thinking the most important thing would be to stick to grip lines and avoid any unintentional drifting. I guess I probably ought to avoid too much trail-braking. Will a TCS setting of 1 or 2 help make tires last a little longer.

I think it was in a race report on the Miata enduro where someone said, "Any time you hear your tires squealing, you're losing speed." Is that true? Does it apply to all races, or mostly to lower hp races like the Miata? Does that mean that driving to save the rubber will also give you the best lap times?

It might sound like I'm trying to figure out how to use T2s and run an entire enduro without ever pitting, but that's not the case (though it might be funny to try ). I'm actually thinking races might be more fun if I stick closer to the AI pit schedule, but if I could run T5's and get 7 laps instead of 5, that'd be cool. Or pit every 6 laps, but run on T6's.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Try feathering the throttle when accelerating on gear one. Also try not to drift, and cornering at the highest speed possible, even without drifting is killer on the front tires.

 

[Duke]

So I've done one enduro and I'm looking at a couple others, and obviously tire wear is a huge factor. Different cars use up the tires at different rates, and I'm trying to figure out what factors are important.

You are wise beyond your GT3 years, young padawan. This is an excellent set of questions.

Which cars get the most out of a set of tires? The lightest ones like the Elise or Speedster or Mini? What the record number of laps you've managed to get? Weight must be the biggest factor. The C5R is hell on front tires, despite being a powerful FR car. So the weight of that V8 over the front tires must be the reason.

In general, yes, weight is the enemy of tires. More load, more cornering stress, etc. Even artificial weight - downforce - has effect on tire wear. Not all light cars are easy on tires, but most are. Among the racers, the 787B probably gets the best tire mileage. I never drove the Vertigo long enough distances to see if I could get 37 laps out of a set, though.

Drivetrain, of course. Despite the example of the Vette, don't the drive wheels wear more quickly?

Some yes, some no. I think it still has more to do with weight, even when it appears to be drivetrain - most midengine cars tend to wear the rears out first (Elise, NSX, prototype racers, F1s). Most AWD and all FWD cars are front engine, but of course they get the double whammy - the fronts are handling lots of load and tend to heat cycle much more quickly.

I'm sure extreme settings of toe and camber would wreck tire life, but what about conservative settings? Will a -1.0 toe-in make a serious difference in how long tires last? What about front camber of 3.0 (just for example).

Toe definitely is a big factor. The F1 cars (when you get one) have massive rear toe out to make them turn in instantaneously. You'll find that you need to reduce that number in order to avoid excessive pits; they cook the rears pretty quickly if you drive with no traction control on or set very low.

Camber is inconclusive. In real life, some negative camber definitely helps with wear, particularly in the fronts. I had my Neons set up to run around 2 degrees of negative camber on the fronts and zero on the back. the alignment guy made me sign a waiver about tread wear, which I happily did. He swore the inside shoulders would wear out running that setup, but in fact, I quit having to rotate my tires, because the fronts wore nice and evenly. Plus the cars handled a lot better.

Brake balance? With ABS the tires never lock up, but could you get more even tire wear between the front and rear by changing the brake balance. (It's probably not worth it though, since handling it more important.)

I never tested this, but I suspect that it's negligible, or nearly so.

Finally, and this is what I'm most curious about, how much can you conserve tires by the way you drive? And how do you do it? I'm thinking the most important thing would be to stick to grip lines and avoid any unintentional drifting. I guess I probably ought to avoid too much trail-braking. Will a TCS setting of 1 or 2 help make tires last a little longer.

I think it was in a race report on the Miata enduro where someone said, "Any time you hear your tires squealing, you're losing speed." Is that true? Does it apply to all races, or mostly to lower hp races like the Miata? Does that mean that driving to save the rubber will also give you the best lap times?

After you get cars of a cetain speed and power, the tires are going to squeal on every turn. But in general, the lower-powered momentum cars are losing speed when they're squealing the tires loudly. I just ran a quick GT4 fun run in the 2002 Turbo, and lap time was inversely proportionate to the amount of tire squeal. The less, the faster.

Yes, driving style has a major effect on wear. The best way to get good tire life is to drive very smoothly. Coincidentally, this is also the best way to be fast. When I was driving the Grand Valley enduro in a JGTC NSX, I realized I needed a shorter pit interval than the AI. So I began really focusing on smoothness, and not only extended my interval a lap or two, but set my FTOD laps too.

Brake early and avoid dropping anchor at the very end of a long straight. Steer as smoothly as possible, and squeeze the throttle back on instead of jamming it. You're going to have to drive aggressively sometimes, but if you get the smoothness down first, the speed will follow.

I'm actually thinking races might be more fun if I stick closer to the AI pit schedule, but if I could run T5's and get 7 laps instead of 5, that'd be cool. Or pit every 6 laps, but run on T6's.

Indeed. I won a lot of races in GT3 with an underpowered car, by outlasting them on pits. Der Alta is the king of that - he probably could have one the PD Cup in a soapbox derby car.

But that got lonely, so after I got 100% and went back to some favorites, I decided to use a little beefier cars but match the AI pit schedule, even if my tires were fine. It meant more fender-to-fender action out on course, and more struggle.

 

[Blake]

most midengine cars tend to wear the rears out first (Elise, NSX, prototype racers, F1s).

Not necessarily. My favourite Formula GT setup (attached) has the fronts wearing just as quickly as the rears. Lap times are quicker than stock around most tracks, tyre life is so much better, and driveability is better, too.

Yes, I’ll admit the car could go quicker still by adopting a less conservative setup, but for endurance races I think it’s worth a few tenths a lap to get the tyre wear just right.

EDIT: Right, this is the GT3 forum, whoops.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

So I've done one enduro and I'm looking at a couple others, and obviously tire wear is a huge factor. Different cars use up the tires at different rates, and I'm trying to figure out what factors are important.

Which cars get the most out of a set of tires? The lightest ones like the Elise or Speedster or Mini? What the record number of laps you've managed to get?

Weight must be the biggest factor. The C5R is hell on front tires, despite being a powerful FR car. So the weight of that V8 over the front tires must be the reason.

I think a well balanced car seems to get better tire wear. (closer to 50/50 weight distribution) but you can sure mess it up with allignment. I remember when doing the amateur MR series I got some wonky settings for the elise 190 from GTVault and couldn't keep tires on it for more than a couple of laps. I think that's when I realized I was going to have to learn the intricacies of tuning for myself.

Drivetrain, of course. Despite the example of the Vette, don't the drive wheels wear more quickly?

I just finished the PD Cup with the RUF RGT, (Total Overkill I might add) The fronts consistiently wore a little faster than the rears. That was with T3s.

Finally, and this is what I'm most curious about, how much can you conserve tires by the way you drive? And how do you do it? I'm thinking the most important thing would be to stick to grip lines and avoid any unintentional drifting. I guess I probably ought to avoid too much trail-braking. Will a TCS setting of 1 or 2 help make tires last a little longer.

I think it was in a race report on the Miata enduro where someone said, "Any time you hear your tires squealing, you're losing speed." Is that true? Does it apply to all races, or mostly to lower hp races like the Miata? Does that mean that driving to save the rubber will also give you the best lap times?

It might sound like I'm trying to figure out how to use T2s and run an entire enduro without ever pitting, but that's not the case (though it might be funny to try ). I'm actually thinking races might be more fun if I stick closer to the AI pit schedule, but if I could run T5's and get 7 laps instead of 5, that'd be cool. Or pit every 6 laps, but run on T6's.

I really haven't experienced that driving style will save the tires that much. It seems like they're good for X# of laps depending on your setup. Although they do seem to go from orange to red pretty quick if you're not prudent.

Lower powered cars do need to be driven much smoother. A drift in a stock miata will kill your speed through a corner. I remember running at the local indoor go-kart track and the same holds true there. Any drift just bogs down the engine.

I went back and did a couple of the PD cup races over with a Celica GTFour and an RX-7. I couldn't run the GTFour anywhere smooth enough to compete and was burning the fronts off (T3s all around) in six laps at Tokyo 246. The RX-7 on the other hand was a blast with some great dicing and T3s easily went 10 laps.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

But that got lonely, so after I got 100% and went back to some favorites, I decided to use a little beefier cars but match the AI pit schedule, even if my tires were fine. It meant more fender-to-fender action out on course, and more struggle.

Yeah, that's what I'm into...I hate "lonely" endurance races. I get bored so quick. If it means using lesser tires or less power (or even more power) I'd rather have a close match up lap after lap than one long time trial.