What are the (current) BoP values for N100? (And some minor thoughts related to Gr.X)

[MIE1992]

I'd be very interested in hearing this, given that some N100 vehicles can't even technically reach 100HP, even when fully-tuned. Some examples were the Fiat 500F '68 and the older VW Beetle. I wonder how other N100 cars are affected by BoP to compensate for that? Alternatively, maybe it would benefit PD to have some ranked events with this class to collect some more data, so they can make the appropriate buffs/nerfs.

As an aside, I firmly believe cars that are more track-oriented (or perhaps track-only) should be in Gr.X, which we can already see with the Pagani Zonda R and the McLaren P1 GTR. But in the context of the cars already in GT Sport, I would also expand this to the Aston Martin Vulcan, the KTM X-Bow R, & the Toyota S-FR Racing Concept - either through an update for GT Sport, or in a future GT title. I think that not only would their track-oriented nature put other cars at a potential disadvantage as some could argue for the latter two (even with BoP), but I also hypothesize that the Vulcan drives like it does because it's "dumbed-down" for the N-series. Perhaps PD realized this, too, sometime after adding the X-Bow R, and this is why the Zonda R and P1 GTR aren't in the N-series. (With this in mind, I wonder if the X-Bow Street should be in the N-series if it were to hypothetically return - it is street-legal, after all - while the X-Bow R should be in Gr.X. Perhaps if the X-Bow Street still seems OP, perhaps further nerfs to its power/weight could be enacted via BoP...)

What do you think, @Alpha Cipher?

 

[Pururut]

Some N100 cars works as same as Ford f-150. They are underpowered even when fully tuned.

Xbow is fine as it is. Its R version is street legal too. Not much people have guts to use it anyway. Very unstable due to lack of rear downforce or excessive amount of front downforce.

N class bops are generally very unbalanced. Porsches mostly dominates n300, n500 classes while classic muscle cars lacking so badly.

 

[MIE1992]

Some N100 cars works as same as Ford f-150. They are underpowered even when fully tuned.

Xbow is fine as it is. Its R version is street legal too. Not much people have guts to use it anyway. Very unstable due to lack of rear downforce or excessive amount of front downforce.

N class bops are generally very unbalanced. Porsches mostly dominates n300, n500 classes while classic muscle cars lacking so badly.

It does sound like more data collection would be good, to potentially better-balance some of the cars within that group. However, I did have an alternative idea: How about in the daily races, championship events, and in lobby options, we could see regulations that are more in-depth, more akin to what we can see in GT League? For example, a Gr.1 daily race that more specifically is either limited to real-world LMP1 cars, the VGTs within Gr.1, or the older Group C cars. Or perhaps an N100 race that's specifically limited to the three kei cars we have in the game so far.

 

[TTM]

S-FR Racing Concept should not be in N class. It literally states in the description it’s a track only prototype car.

 

[rex1825]

Some N100 cars works as same as Ford f-150. They are underpowered even when fully tuned.

Xbow is fine as it is. Its R version is street legal too. Not much people have guts to use it anyway. Very unstable due to lack of rear downforce or excessive amount of front downforce.

N class bops are generally very unbalanced. Porsches mostly dominates n300, n500 classes while classic muscle cars lacking so badly.

...problem that I see is H-shifter with classic cars. Since when BoP is in action, usually settings are disabled so cars use standard gearbox, classic cars have really clunky gearbox when using paddles or AT, but if used with H-Shifter and clutch, it is totally different story. But still, I think cars are a bit on heavy side (especially older cars).

All this I can confirm since I am practicing for next FIA event in N300, K-Bow for now dominates, but I am like 2sec away with Miura and GT40, and for X-Bow, I can't get 3-4sec close to top 10 times... And of course I am not some alien driver like those guys in top 10 times. Still H-shifter makes huge difference...

 

[Pururut]

...problem that I see is H-shifter with classic cars. Since when BoP is in action, usually settings are disabled so cars use standard gearbox, classic cars have really clunky gearbox when using paddles or AT, but if used with H-Shifter and clutch, it is totally different story. But still, I think cars are a bit on heavy side (especially older cars).

All this I can confirm since I am practicing for next FIA event in N300, K-Bow for now dominates, but I am like 2sec away with Miura and GT40, and for X-Bow, I can't get 3-4sec close to top 10 times... And of course I am not some alien driver like those guys in top 10 times. Still H-shifter makes huge difference...

Tuning should be allowed in nation races. H shifter really gives unfair advantage.

 

[SjefGielen]

Tuning should be allowed in nation races. H shifter really gives unfair advantage.

It's not the H-shifter that gives the advantage, it is the clutch.
I have the Thrustmaster T150 with the Thrustmaster H-shifter, since I do not have a clutch pedal shifting with the H-shifter is just as fast (or slow) as using the flappy pedals. When using a clutch pedal you can shift much faster in normal gearbox cars

 

[Pururut]

S-FR Racing Concept should not be in N class. It literally states in the description it’s a track only prototype car.

Sorry my fault. But still its an unfair advantage over ds4 players.

 

[Sander 001]

I still miss the PP system from GT5&6. I did tons of road car races but I stopped completely for GT Sport.

 

[rex1825]

I still miss the PP system from GT5&6. I did tons of road car races but I stopped completely for GT Sport.

...this I said over and over again that PD should reintroduce PP system back to the game, even though it was flawed, it was much better then this now, and you could basically change power and weight in 1hp, 1kg increments, now 1% on 700kg is not same as 1% on 2t.

Cheers...

 

[MIE1992]

I still miss the PP system from GT5&6. I did tons of road car races but I stopped completely for GT Sport.

I do sort of prefer the more stratified format of GT Sport. It feels better-organized, and one could still hypothetically have "sub-classes" if we see more specific rulesets. For example, I wouldn't mind an N-series event reserved the made-for-game Gr.3/Gr.B road cars. On top of that, I wouldn't mind the idea of other rulesets that don't restrict the category (let alone enact BoP), but rather have a limitation on something like power/weight ratio. (Although I suppose tweaking the weight & power limits independently could still get you a hypothetical p/w ratio limit.)

...this I said over and over again that PD should reintroduce PP system back to the game, even though it was flawed, it was much better then this now, and you could basically change power and weight in 1hp, 1kg increments, now 1% on 700kg is not same as 1% on 2t.

Cheers...

Why not keep the category format, but allow for more detailed tuning of power/weight, instead of by percentage?

 

[rex1825]

Tuning should be allowed in nation races. H shifter really gives unfair advantage.

It's not the H-shifter that gives the advantage, it is the clutch.
I have the Thrustmaster T150 with the Thrustmaster H-shifter, since I do not have a clutch pedal shifting with the H-shifter is just as fast (or slow) as using the flappy pedals. When using a clutch pedal you can shift much faster in normal gearbox cars

H-Shifter with clutch ghost
Paddleshifter normal



Obvious advantage, with classic cars this is even bigger, Ford GT-40 1st to 2nd take ages in paddleshifter or AT, with H-Shifter and clutch is basically instant...

 

[Pururut]

I still miss the PP system from GT5&6. I did tons of road car races but I stopped completely for GT Sport.

Are you missing the system that allows you to downgrade the ts030 to 500pp?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

S-FR Racing Concept should not be in N class. It literally states in the description it’s a track only prototype car.

The base S-FR should be Gr.X also since it was never released to the public and probably never will be.

H-Shifter with clutch ghost
Paddleshifter normal



Obvious advantage, with classic cars this is even bigger, Ford GT-40 1st to 2nd take ages in paddleshifter or AT, with H-Shifter and clutch is basically instant...

Now that's something that needs to be fixed.

 

[Beezer215]

Why would people want more cars in the graveyard that is Group X? I don't get it.
Get rid of Group X all together, classify the cars better into subgroups and allow multi-class racing so we can have fun with them against different cars as WE see fit. It is a game after all.
These N classes don't really do justice for a classification. Lap times or actual performance should be the deciding factor, always.
Example: The 72 A110 should be in N200 not N100. The 4C could be N300 instead of N200, and the biggest offender is the X-Bow. The X-bow could be N500 or at least N400 but to put that car in N300 is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know what the thought process was in creating a balanced classification with that decision. Nothing like doing a Custom Race for 20 mins or so and with any other N300 car and that X-Bow always being close to a minute ahead of you.

 

[MIE1992]

Why would people want more cars in the graveyard that is Group X? I don't get it.
Get rid of Group X all together, classify the cars better into subgroups and allow multi-class racing so we can have fun with them against different cars as WE see fit. It is a game after all.

But that's not the entirety of what I'm saying. I think some cars should be added to Gr.X, but I also think some new classes should be formed for some cars currently in Gr.X, such as a "Gr.1-Retro" for the various historic race cars, or a "NE" for the all-electric cars. I also think some Gr.X cars should be in the N-series, like the Toyota FT-1 concept. And I do think the normal S-FR concept should be in the N-series - just not the racing concept.

I agree that Gr.X should ideally avoid being a "wastebin" group, and I think it'd be ideal for Gr.X to be for one-make vehicles, like the Red Bull cars, or cars that have unique features that may make it too alien to be in the other groups. (Though I do wonder about the Vulcan. Does it really drive badly because it's "dumbed-down" by being in the N-series? Or was it just a mistake on PD's part? At any rate, why do you suppose the P1 GTR & Zonda R were put into Gr.X, then? Perhaps the Vulcan should indeed be placed there, since it is track-only.)

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Why are electric cars Gr.X? Specifically the ones that are available to the public ie. Tesla Model S and BMW i3? Meanwhile Toyota S-FR exists as a concept and gets to enjoy N100 status. Same with Vulcan as N800. Not sure if Mazda RX500 is also just concept, but I think it is.

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Beezer215]

I does make no sense. I don't really care what the classes are called I guess, call them whatever you see fit but if I want to race a custom race, I see no reason why we can't race a Tesla against the N300 class let's say. I don't want to hear about ones electric and ones gas and pit stops and all that nonsense. There's options not to use fuel consumption.
The FT-1 is already in the Career Amateur FR Brands Hatch race against regular cars. One race in the whole game in which you can run against this cars AI locked to only one track they put it on.
I can't wrap my head around what they are doing. Open up the game. Let us make selections of what cars we want on the grid, multi-class.
If I want to race a Zonda R or P1 GTR against N800-1000 road cars, why in the hell can't I?

 

[Pururut]

There can be a class for track-day cars like Zonda, P1 gtr, Vulcan and sfr racing concept but balancing those cars would be nearly impossible because there is a huge performance difference.