What The Heck Is The Lisbon Treaty?

[TDUFreak]

So in ireland there is a vote for the Lisbon treaty, but not being of the voting age, i havent gotten much information about it.
We got a letter in the post saying to vote no if you dont want things to change, so to me, i was just thinking WTF!? Like, i hadnt heard of the lisbon treaty much until then, then it suddenly will cause change?
What changes? How did these changes get put in place? How will it make these changes? How will these changes affect me?
Essentialy, because i am Very slow with politics can someone please dumb it down a bit for me?

 

[Sage]

Or you could just look it up…

 

[TB]

wiki to the rescue.

Smacked again! This is gettin' old.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Basically, it's one more step in Brussel's attempt to make a European super-state.

Yay.

 

[TDUFreak]

lol, i thought id get Wiki'd! I tried Wikipedia but i didnt understand it at all, once again, politics aint my bag but ExigeEvan kind of did it, So basicaly there trying to assimilate us all?
The Letter we got said it would change things on Abortion, Gay Marrage, Taxes etc etc

 

[YSSMAN]

Basically, it's one more step in Brussel's attempt to make a European super-state.

Yay.

European super-state minus the UK. You picky buggers.

There has to be a point at which it seems somewhat inevitable, right? Maybe not, I dunno. Coming from the United States it seems like its a relatively easy idea to grab a hold of, but certainly, with even the slightest understanding of European history and culture... It will never work out completely well.

 

[Robin]

European super-state minus the UK. You picky buggers.

I dont think the UK will ever give in and take the Euro currency!

 

[ExigeEvan]

European super-state minus the UK. You picky buggers.

There has to be a point at which it seems somewhat inevitable, right? Maybe not, I dunno. Coming from the United States it seems like its a relatively easy idea to grab a hold of, but certainly, with even the slightest understanding of European history and culture... It will never work out completely well.

Considering there have been countless wars fought between the countries involved and not just the 1 civil war you've have in America, then yes, it's abit more complicated.

And it should be European super state minus Switzerland, the UK will inevitably be part of it for purely economic reasons. Or else, our heavy industry contribution is entirely research, innovation and design with no capacity to manufacture. Which isn't all to healthy now.

 

[YSSMAN]

I agree with the inevitability factor, I'm sure that there aren't many in Europe who disagree with that, but as for it working well, thats a tough question. I do occasionally wonder if its more about economics or security, or both. I tend to identify the UK as the one thats going to stand out of the relationship for as long as possible, likely being dragged along by the long-standing Anglo-American ties. It just seems like it would be very difficult to get everyone to agree to that constitution, one that may not take every state's laws/regulations into account.

...Especially if Turkey joins up...

Meh. The EU is very interesting to study here in the US, and I'm not sure why.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't see it as a security, certainly not in a conventional-war style defence. NATO has long provided security and I no longer see many conventional wars taking place in Europe purely because any war in Europe will be religiously led, and radical.

And it's also becoming harder and harder for any large coalition to decide on the legality of any "occupation" or "liberation" campaigns. Just take the Iraq conflict as an example.

 

[GT4 genius]

I started a thread about this awhile ago but it didnt get 1 reply so I'm glad this one has been a bit more successful.

Anyway as far as I know its just giving Brussels more power and taking power away from the Dail and other European members parliments. The only Irish political party against it is Sinn Fein so I would say that it is better for Ireland to say yes, even if we do lose part of our nationalism. I got the booklet too that you were talking about, half of it was in Gealige (Irish language) now I wouldnt mind losing that part of our nationalism to the history books too , so as we can put that money to better use.

Also some of you seem to refer to the UK as if its not in the EU. It is it just hasnt adopted the Euro currency, it too has to agree to The Lisbon Treaty. But it dosent need to have a referendum to accept it, I think Ireland is the only member state that has to have a (money wasting) referendum.

 

[GT4 genius]

Well the votes have been cast and are now being counted. And the news is very bad. The ignorant Irish have voted NO, or at least thats what the early indications are.
What the hell are we at. Less then a year ago we voted in our government and everyone of them told us to vote yes, everyone of the political partys bar one rouge group called Sinn Fein urged us to vote YES. But oh no the ignorant Irish decided to listen to previously unheard of groups such as Libertas who told us that abortion was going to be legalised and that we could all be called up to fight for some Uber European army in some imaginary war!
I've never been so ashamed to be Irish.

 

[Racer21]

Eventually in the UK we will adopt the Euro, it is inevitable. The EU is the economic superpower that can rival the USA. The EU could be the next big superpower, no more infighting, a strong alliance to destroy our enemies.

 

[YSSMAN]

As an economic power, yes, it seems quite reasonable to assume that Europe will rival that of the United States and China without much of an issue. The problem is, however, as the costs of materials and manpower increase in Europe and America, its still relatively "cheap" in China, and consequently that's where we're seeing the most growth. The issue with Europe is that you have to have a cohesive system, and to that extent, given the nature of the continent itself (particularly in regards to the UK and their relationship with mainlanders), its going to be a helluva lot harder to pull together than you think...

...The same goes with a political/military type of government. Although the OSCE certainly is some kind of extension in that regard (one cannot forget of NATO as well), an actual functioning body of government given the drastic differences between all of the peoples of Europe...

I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Of course, that depends on Russia, and of course, those of us here in the United States.

 

[Racer21]

You say this about the UK, but I think you would be suprised in reality. We are not all petty nationalists here and we are a strong part of the union. France is probably less likely to want to pull together, but that is probably stereotyping aswell. Russia may eventually join the EU also which would be interesting. With regards to China, they are the worst, capitalism and communism tied into one ugly package.

 

[YSSMAN]

France not joining up? They're the ones (with Germany, odd) that seem to want everyone to have a piece of cake.

If I were an Anglo, I'd damn-well know that the cake is, in fact, a lie.