What Type Of Engine Drivetrain do You drive FF, FR, AWD, MR?
- Thread starter Rx7fatboy
- 39 comments
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I have just finished doing the Vitz RS...got it souped up as far as it will go. I like the front wheel drive because if the corner is a little tight, I can tap the handbrarke and kick the @ss of my car out a little bit and the FF will pull it out of the turn solidly with little spin.
- 152
I like using 4WD and FF the most, as they are more forgiving, and you can handle a high power 4WD or FF car on corners. FR cars can be fun as a challenge, and I can safely say I hate driving MR. Way too twitchy for my liking.
- 1,879
MR is the best!!!! all race cars are MR and they are for a reason...they provide more power from the engine with a less distance to travel as opposed to FR cars...thatz why the F1 cars in the game are MR!
- 10,081
- WFG9
Not big on mr, i like fr.
- 1,879
and why is that? i mean, the fastests cars in the game are MR!
I really like em all except for FF. I hate FF with a passion. The only FF car in my garage was that yellow FTO that I won from the Japan championship in the amateur league. It looks like MR has more handling potential to me, but I need to learn how to control it better. I kick ass with FR because that's all I've owned in real life. 4WD I like because the key is powersliding.
- 452
Originally posted by Rice Rocketeer
MR is the best!!!! all race cars are MR and they are for a reason...they provide more power from the engine with a less distance to travel as opposed to FR cars...thatz why the F1 cars in the game are MR!
First off, dont try to sound authoritative on this, because this is an arguement that is as old as racing itself.
The point of a mid mounted engine has ZERO to do with the length of the drive shaft and EVERYTHING to do with weight distribution. An engine will make the same power if it is mounted in the middle of the car as if it were in the trunk, under the hood, or on the roof. If I pull my 2.0 Zetec and put it im my back seat, it wont suddenly thunder out 900 hp.
NOT ALL RACE CARS are Mid engine Rear wheel drive. Its impossible to say that most racing is done with MR cars, because only 5 or 6 major series use MR engines, and only a few smaller (formula) series do. F1 cars have mid mounted engines because that is the most efficient spot to put them on a car of their nature both aerodynamically and center of gravity wise. The center of gravity is key here. They types of car that emply this technique are VERY expensive and exotic cars. (Champ cars, exotics, prototype, and formula cars) These cars are in fact fast, but it isnt the be-all and end all of design. Look at Nascar and GT Lemans cars.
Understanding how a car reacts during a high speed turn requires a lot of physics, and I dont want to go into it. Suffice to say that a nearly central genter of gravity (close to the middle of the wheelbase) aids a car in transferring weight where it needs to be.
For MOST "civilian" purposes, a front engine / front wheel drive car is the safeset, most reliable, and easiest to control layout. High performance HANDLING demands rear wheel drive (sorry rice-boys, its physics) which is why there really arent any front wheel drive race circuits. (except some straight line drag racing) With rear wheel drive, you get almost the entire weight of the car on the drive wheels (remember the wheelie from "the fast and the furious") which allows them to have greater traction. In a high speed turn, Weight is shifted to the front, giving the front wheels greater traction, and preventing slippage. All wheel drive is generally not employed due to the added weight. (ecxept rally racing)
Most REALLY REALLY fast cars are MR, but racing is a BIG WORLD. Watch speedvision sometime.
Brian, you're the friggin man. Great post. I'm curious though, a lot of cars these days are coming out with 4WD. I hear that they handle better around corners, etc. I've also heard that it's good for cars that are capable of lots of power (like the Skyline) for better start-offs because it's distributing the power to all four wheels instead of two. Any truth to this?
- 452
Uh, I didnt really understand this, but I think you have some part of the idea.
All wheel drive (NOT 4wd) is a marvelous thing, but not the panacea of driving saftey that subaru would have you believe. The premise is that power is distributed over all of you tires so that you dont lose traction and thus lose control. It also allows you to both pull and push through turns. This has the advantage of allowing a more stable turn and it prevents spins at high speeds. You also increase body pitch, thus putting more weight on rear tires. (good thing)
All wheel drive cars dont transmit twice the power to the road as a 2wd car. They just distribute it differently. Also, no cars have a 50/50 power split. It is usually around 85/15 rear/front torque split, but its hard to gauge as there is only like 2 awd dynos around in the whole country. The extra wheels are pulling for stability. There is a penalty though. AWD cars dont turn as well as rear wheel cars do by virtue of the way they are constructed.
As for drag racing, AWD is a mixed blessing. For cars like the skyline GT-R, AWD allows them to launch without spinning their tires, which loses time and wears tires. the 276 hp of a GT-R could spin 2 tire easily, but it has a much harder tim with 4. (it can do it though!) In general though, Drage racers dont use AWD, as it adds a bunch of weight, and improves traction that you can get through other means, namely racing tires. You'll notice that REAL drag cars dont squeal their tires much, or at all when they launch, and they are all rwd. This is becaus ethey are using VERY SOFT rubber tires that they pre warm by burning out before a run.
AWD is different than 4wd. 4wd insinuates a vehicle that usually runs in 2wd that can move to 4wd when the situation calls for it. This is how most trucks work. 4wd has the connotation that you are using it to move over rough terrain at low speeds. Most trucks are not rated over 35mph in 4wd low range. A Porsche 911 Carrera 4 and a Subaru Impreza are different. They always spin all four wheels, and are geared to go very fast. You'll notice that The racing porsches (gt2, gt3, and old gt1 dont have awd, due to the extra weight and reduced turning ability.)
AWD's main place is in rally competition. You should watch a WRC or SCCA pro rally even sometime. Its very cool. Get speedvision.
- 268
I like mid rear cos its fun and becasue it does tend to corner more smoothly when you get it right.
FR is cool too cos the back steps out and you have to correct which is fun as well.
FR is cool too cos the back steps out and you have to correct which is fun as well.
- 291
Give me FF, and I'm untouchable on the wet tracks. On dirt or dry pavement, I prefer the beauty of All-Wheel Drive.
- 10,081
- WFG9
I've found that MR, like the NSX, do not correct so easily.
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
- 11,038
- Edinburgh, UK
- CMDRTheDarkLord
That's because the mid-mounting creates greater stability by having the centre of gravity closer to the centre of the car.
It doesn't help when you exceed the grip capability of the rear tyres however, as by then you'll have built up a wad of momentum (think of your car as a pendulum, with the engine (the weight) and the front wheels (the hinge). Thus moving the engine further from the hinge increases the effort to contain a slide.
FR cars are easier to slide in the first place, since all the weight in the front takes weight from the rear wheels, and reduces the grip limit.
So, to summarise: MR has higher levels of grip, but once you exceed that grip level, you're heading straight to the scene of the accident. FR has less overall grip, but you'll have more control when it slides, because the weight isn't flinging you around. so much.
Make sense?
- 10,081
- WFG9
yes, well, the NSX has been controversial since gt1. some like it, some don't. me, i can do with out it.
I like all o' them! 
FF is good for grip, bad for high speed cornering, but good for handbrake slides.
FR is bad for grip, bad or good for high speed cornering (try a Trueno and a Camaro race car to see the difference), bad for handbrake slides.
MR is usually good for grip, good for high speed cornering, very bad for handbrake slides.
AWD is good for grip, good for high speed cornering, okay for handbrake slides.
RR (which no-one seems to have mentioned) is about the same as FR, but with less grip on the back.
Phew!
FF is good for grip, bad for high speed cornering, but good for handbrake slides.
FR is bad for grip, bad or good for high speed cornering (try a Trueno and a Camaro race car to see the difference), bad for handbrake slides.
MR is usually good for grip, good for high speed cornering, very bad for handbrake slides.
AWD is good for grip, good for high speed cornering, okay for handbrake slides.
RR (which no-one seems to have mentioned) is about the same as FR, but with less grip on the back.
Phew!
- 8
i like to use the MR cars because they got the traction i need to pull out of turns, which i find reduce lap time heehee
- 10,687
- Everywhere
First, I totally dig MR for racing in GT3. They are really fun to drive, and make a lot of sense. The 4WD or AWD vehicles seem underpowered because they're spending some hp driving those front wheels, but they can corner like nobody's business. But in the real world ... I'd like to have that engine block in front of me just incase of a head on collision (: I also want my drive in the back, just for the power. I guess that means FFs are totally out ... well dang, that's what I'm driving now! I've got a 4door 1993 Honda Accord LX. I don't care what anybody says, Honda knows how to build an engine that'll really wind up.
Brian makes several good points. You guys should think before you speak (or type), and maybe pay a little more attention and respect to him. w00t!
And remember, maintain those max revs, MAX REVS!
~LoudMusic
Brian makes several good points. You guys should think before you speak (or type), and maybe pay a little more attention and respect to him. w00t!
And remember, maintain those max revs, MAX REVS!
~LoudMusic
- 67
And there was me thinking it was the same. My dictionary even says that AWD is the US term for 4WD. So what would you say is better out of the two, Brain?
As for my favourite drivetrains, I like 4WD and MR. I like watching rally alot and it is fun seeing all those Rally cars slide around on mud, gravel and God knows what.
- 1,190
Actually, for an experienced driver MR will offer slight welcomed handling advantages over any other type of drivetrain......think about it........how many F1 cars are FF (lol) The most agile cars are without a doubt MR. Two awesome MR that are not race modified are the LOTUS ELISE MOTORSPORT and the RUF 3400S .....if anybody is willing to argue that MR isn't the best layout then step on up
- 35
Ahh there's been some excellant views expressed in this post so far. In my opinion different drive train setups work best for different amounts of power. FF is good for low power engines, FR for med to high, and MR for med to high powered engines. AWD is good for low to med (although I'm sure people will disagree with that one.)
I personally like a medium to high powered FR car. I like small controlled power slides.
Another thing to note is there are two main types of AWD. Those that transfere most of their power to the front, and the remainder to the rear like a 85/15 split (eg, EVO, WRX, etc) and those that split most of their power to the rear wheels, and the remainder to the front, eg more like 15/85 (like the Skyline). Both handle extremely differently IMHO, taking on a lot of characteristics from either a FF, or FR. I prefer the later of the two(in case you couldn't guess), but find you still tend to suffer from understeer in them.
Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth.
I personally like a medium to high powered FR car. I like small controlled power slides.
Another thing to note is there are two main types of AWD. Those that transfere most of their power to the front, and the remainder to the rear like a 85/15 split (eg, EVO, WRX, etc) and those that split most of their power to the rear wheels, and the remainder to the front, eg more like 15/85 (like the Skyline). Both handle extremely differently IMHO, taking on a lot of characteristics from either a FF, or FR. I prefer the later of the two(in case you couldn't guess), but find you still tend to suffer from understeer in them.
Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth.
Must admit I really enjoy low powered MR and FR cars, like a stock NSX or MX-5, or even the Altezza, where you've got to drive very precisely to keep revs up to maintain momentum - it's very rewarding to drive them quickly.
I do enjoy AWD (note the car I drive) on the road, especially in the wet, sailing around those 'posers' in their modified Commodores.
Not sold on FR. I had a 2 litre Vectra which I would still rate as one of the best handling front drive cars I've ever driven, but man that thing went through front tyres, and at the end of the day it was all about managing understeer. Wouldn't mind trying an Integra Type R (the old model).
I do enjoy AWD (note the car I drive) on the road, especially in the wet, sailing around those 'posers' in their modified Commodores.
Not sold on FR. I had a 2 litre Vectra which I would still rate as one of the best handling front drive cars I've ever driven, but man that thing went through front tyres, and at the end of the day it was all about managing understeer. Wouldn't mind trying an Integra Type R (the old model).
- 35
I've driven/owned plenty of low power FF, and one med power FR.
I felt that I could easily push the FF cars very close to the absolute maximum point of handling, and that if they came loose, that things could be kept in hand (most of the time). Managing understeer was a big part of driving when they were pushed. Good fun on dirt at highish speeds. Could be made to glide/slide easily, and felt confident.
FR was a bit more scary, but more fun at the same time. I wouldn't be happy pushing a FR the same as a FF. Not unless I'm on a track.
Never driven a current grunty AWD.
Only been a passenger.
I felt that I could easily push the FF cars very close to the absolute maximum point of handling, and that if they came loose, that things could be kept in hand (most of the time). Managing understeer was a big part of driving when they were pushed.
Good fun on dirt at highish speeds. Could be made to glide/slide easily, and felt confident.FR was a bit more scary, but more fun at the same time. I wouldn't be happy pushing a FR the same as a FF. Not unless I'm on a track.
Never driven a current grunty AWD.
Only been a passenger.
