What will be done with Saddam ?

[ledhed]

The Iraqi's had Saddam appear before a judge, he claimed to be the president of Iraq and called the Kuwaittis "dogs" and said that "Bush is the criminal not he" before being led back to his cell.
What will be done with him ? Do you think he's guilty of anything ? Can he recieve a fair trial ? What will his trial mean to Iraqi's ?

 

[87chevy]

Do you think he's guilty of anything ?

your joking right?.....

well, i'll think they'll have a public execution as soon as they can arrange it. And i hope i can watch it. well, maybe not.... i don't know if i'd want to watch that or not.

 

[Kent]

Actually, what I am looking forward to is the entire world seeing the well documented torture sessions that saddam arranged and took place in.

We are already starting to see some.
Last night I saw:
Tied-up prisoners being thrown from buildings (looked like about 4 stories)
Prisoners getting their arms broken with an axe handle

Over time I am sure we will see plenty more.

My question at that point will be directly to all who oppossed the war.

After watching what saddam did, just in this scenerio, can you still say we should have left him in power?
(that doesn't even include the use of chemical weapons in war as well as in civil insurrections)

Torture, rape, torture, murder, torture, rape, torture, murder...

As Saddam goes on trial the entire world will get to see what he did, and at that point everyone who did not support removing him should become ashamed of themselves.

Truely, just keep an eye out and soon enough everyone will get to see the things Saddam did.

Btw, after the trial by Iraqis I believe saddam will be put to death.

 

[ExigeEvan]

You can't deny he has done things that deserve punishment. His regime has killed, maimed (sp?) and tortured hundreds.
In spite of all that I don't think he should be put to the death penalty. Yes this is the very European point of view, but death is the easy way out. A life of isolation, poor food and (extremely) hard labour.
Also a paper back for 'business' and a stone bed.

 

[donbenni]

I don't entirely agree with Exige, but i do think that Saddam shouldn't just be killed. He should be jailed.

 

[ledhed]

Someone given life in prison can still be rescued or escape. someone being dead can only escape to hell. If hell will even have them .

 

[Kent]

Well first off, no one here should be a fool.

Saddam, if allowed to live, will never come close to bad food or hard labour.

Also, remember that people similar to saddam value their own lives greatly.
Taking that from him will not only punish him, but it will also send a shiver of fear down the spines of people like kim jong il all over the world.

Punishing Saddam to death will send a clear message that this sort of thing will not go un-punished any more.

Regarding what he did...
He did so much that I really do not believe we will get to see all of his crimes.
I mean, do you think his enviromental crimes will be part of this trial?
I don't know, but with all the time that will be spent on the torture, rape and murder of humans, I doubt we will get to see him punished for dumping oil into the gulf in amounts greater than that of the exxon valdez incident.

Saddam did not stop with oil fires, but deliberately opened pipelines that dumped between 4 million and 11 million barrels of oil into the waters of the Gulf, making it by far the largest single discharge of oil into the sea ever recorded. The result was an oil slick 40 kilometers long and 12 kilometers wide. The oil coated more than 1,300 kilometers of shoreline in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and killed between 15,000 and 30,000 seabirds.

Here look for his crimes yourselves.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/war.htm
Enjoy (if you're some kind of sick bastard, otherwise, become outraged).

Till next time,
-

 

[87chevy]

GoKents Awesome, simply awesome. Well said. :appluase: 👍 👍

Where did you see these crimes, btw? on the net?

 

[Famine]

Punishing Saddam to death will send a clear message that this sort of thing will not go un-punished any more.

But will it make him a saint and martyr to a generation of Sunni suicide bombers?

 

[///M-Spec]

It appears that even Iraqis can't agree on what they should do with him.

"The country has too many other problems now that should be fixed first." "What we're seeing now is nothing more than propaganda. This is for Bush's sake, for the sake of the American elections. This doesn't have anything to do with justice for Iraqis."

"Saddam should be wiped out as soon as possible so that the Iraqi people can awaken from this nightmare."

"We had a better life during Saddam era." "We want a fair trial where Saddam can speak and defend himself against the fabricated charges filed against him. Saddam used to punish only the bad people who used to destabilize the country."

"He should be placed in metal cage and taken on tour of all the Iraqi cities so that the millions who have been starved, robbed, beaten, deprived and tortured by his regime can see the man responsible for their suffering,"

Full story HERE.


M

 

[Kent]

"With all the mass graves we have seen in Iraq (news - web sites), I think Saddam deserves capital punishment," said Sawsam Jamal, a Kurdish woman from Kirkuk, a region where the deposed leader reportedly authorized the gassing of thousands of people and the murder of thousands more.

"Saddam should be wiped out as soon as possible so that the Iraqi people can awaken from this nightmare."

From that same article, just in case some of you weren't really into reading it.

I suggest everyone reads that article.

A little bias was felt by this reader...
In cases I wondered who was really perpetuating propaganda when I noticed that the AP used the wording in the quote above...
"where the deposed leader reportedly authorized the gassing of thousands of people and the murder of thousands more."

The below opinion is one that made me feel like some people will never quit when it comes to creating political trouble.
It's like the world revolves around American partisan politics sometimes. 👎

"The country has too many other problems now that should be fixed first," Mahdi said. "What we're seeing now is nothing more than propaganda. This is for Bush's sake, for the sake of the American elections. This doesn't have anything to do with justice for Iraqis."

However, just like the news I watch, it's about hearing both sides.

What amazes me is the fear in the hearts of these people.
Of course, in a country where rape is a common punishment I can understand such wide spread fear.
For example...

"We won't say anything," said one woman who runs a handicrafts shop. "Even if the pictures were of him being executed, we wouldn't talk." Beside her, an elderly man nodded in agreement.

At another Baghdad hotel, a group of about 16 men glared at a television.

"Look at him. This isn't the face of a prisoner. He's running the courtroom," said one man who refused to be identified. Around him, other men nodded in agreement, with one of them adding: "That's why he was president for so long."

Notice the total disbelief that saddam is even in the trouble.

Sad in many ways if you ask me.

Oh, almost forgot...
When talking to my brother about this I got an interesting response.

He said...
"... death alone is a light punishment for Saddam. He should have his daughters raped in front of him, then his sons tortured and maimed, then after all of that, torture and kill him."

Kinda harsh, but it should remind us all of what happend to all Iraqis that were punished by Saddam's regime.

 

[87chevy]

In the apartments across from our compound (a former Republican Gaurd Officers Club where Uday used to hang out a lot), the families told us of when Uday would knock on the door of one of the apartments and ask for the daughter to come with him (to have his way with her, and then his buddies would most likely get the left overs). Well, if the Father, or the daughter herself refused, Uday's buddies would just go in guns blazing and kill everyone in the family.

Yeah, i'm sure Uday just learned to do this all on his own.

 

[Frenchie4256]

There should be a trial, a very meticulous trial that leaves nothing undone. He should have the best defense team that can be assembled. This perhaps will make the Europeans happy. Nothing will make the Sunnis happy. If by chance he gets life or is released, simply send the 22nd SAS or Delta over to give him two in the head. Yes, I agree that will make him a martyr in the eyes of some, but the variables of "Saddam on the loose" would even make Pres. Chirac pull the trigger!

 

[Solid Fro]

Saddam blaming Bush for everything and saying he is the true criminal?

He sounds like a true Democrat!

 

[ledhed]

^ 👍 👍

 

[Solid Lifters]

Saddam blaming Bush for everything and saying he is the true criminal?

He sounds like a true Democrat!

If he ran for President against Bush, they would elect him too.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I bet there is some sort of attempt to bust him out of whichever Iraqi prison he is being held at.

 

[87chevy]

that's pretty funny solid lifters

I don't doubt there will be attempted rescues either. He will be held in custody for about a year. Yeah, someone will definately try to bust him out. But do you really think he's not being gaurded by American soldiers? Sure, he's in Iraq's legal custody and all that. But I seriously doubt we (Amercica) would take the GIANT risk of trusting Iraqis to guard him. For one, they might kill him before the trial, wich would actually be bad, or they would just let him go. I'm surprised that there haven't been a wave of suicide bombings against all the Baghdad courthouses.

 

[Kent]

that's pretty funny solid lifters

I don't doubt there will be attempted rescues either. He will be held in custody for about a year. Yeah, someone will definately try to bust him out. But do you really think he's not being gaurded by American soldiers? Sure, he's in Iraq's legal custody and all that. But I seriously doubt we (Amercica) would take the GIANT risk of trusting Iraqis to guard him. For one, they might kill him before the trial, wich would actually be bad, or they would just let him go. I'm surprised that there haven't been a wave of suicide bombings against all the Baghdad courthouses.

Interesting take, however, one thing should be noted.

The "court house" saddam was shown in the other day was nothing less than a room from one of his old mansions.

Talk about rubbing it in!

 

[ExigeEvan]

Someone given life in prison can still be rescued or escape. someone being dead can only escape to hell. If hell will even have them .

First i don't believe in hell and heaven. But, let me put it to you like this. When a person commits suicide (under depression) very often it is done to 'escape' so surely, if Sadam was executed he woudl escape life and be sent to a place (referring to hell) which we
a) can't prove exists
b) garantee that even if he does go, he faces punishment to the degree he deserves.

If he was imprisoned, I don't believe he shoudkl be imprisoned in Iraq. My first choice woudl be Saudi Arabia, but I'm sure tehy wouldn't accept him. So perhaps America, where i doubt he would get any pitty of any guards.

 

[wellyrn]

I have overestimated them before but I wouldn't be suprised to see Saddam back in power in the not too distant future.

Also, many members of the Bush/Bush Jr. regime are accused of hundreds of war crimes. http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm. Why should the US not be held as accountable for thier actions as anyone else?

Just so no one says anything stupid (and it wouldn't be the first time)... NO im not on the side of the terrorists.


Does anyone else not find it a little... hmmm... unusual that the son of the president who started this war 10 years ago is fighting it now? Too me the US government is only technically a democracy rather than a totalitarian regime. If you are under the impression that you are the land of the free you are nutz!
The odds of this happening in a "free country" would be 62,500,000,000:1. Then consider how many of his high ranking officials are the same... astronomical odds to say the least. And god knows what else they have thier hands in.

Speaking of these amazing "coincidences" how about all these guys corporate and foreign ties? Like the business deals with terrorists, the corporate scandals and other unusual and often convenient happenings surrounding the Bush's and thier friends.

 

[ledhed]

dude you are one wild and crazy guy....whatever you are smokin must be awesome.

 

[Solid Fro]

I think that wellyrn is smoking the same stuff that certain fat guy is.

What if Bush never existed and John Kerry was president, would wellyrn still hate America?

 

[xAkirax2004]

Well, to solve this You need...

A rope.
And a tree.

Heh. Just kidding.

I guess the best way is that he has a right to a fair trial since the Iraqi goverment is almost indentical to to ours. He's probably guilty with the hard edvience against him.

Anyone want to take bets on how long he's gonna get in jail?

 

[Shadow]

Well, to solve this You need...

A rope.
And a tree.

Heh. Just kidding.

You might be kidding, but I'm not.

I say they behead his ass.

 

[THE GAME]

I say they behead his ass.

Im sorry, i had to point out the irony in that statement. Hehe


But i belive he should be exucuted as well for all of the war crimes he committied.

sorry if anything is misspelled but i'm a little out of the loop today

 

[wellyrn]

Led and Viper: Stop ignoring the substance of my posts and making inane acusations that hold merit only to the few retards around here that like to affrim each others non-thinking conformist drivel. I don't know if you are just stupid or mentally challenged; maybe you are on drugs or drink heavily but if you can't form an arguement, or at least some trace of an independant thought, say nothing instead.

I don't know what fat guy you are talking about but i don't do drugs, not that it concerns you. I don't drink or smoke either.

I don't hate america, as i have told you several times before. If there was no Bush then Al Gore would have held the office, not John Kerry. In any case, I would disagree with anyone who orders the hostile invasion of a sovereign nation.

So really what is the point of your post Led? And what does that say for Viper "agreeing" with such stupidity?

Don't ever change people, your face will hit the fan.

 

[Duke]

You know, simply persisting in hypocrisy by projecting everything you do onto others is going to get you nowhere in life, kid.

 

[Famine]

wellryn does have at least half an interesting point though - what IS a war crime, and can only the losers of that war be able to have committed them?

If the US had lost it's part of WWII with Japan, would ordering nuclear bombs to be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki be considered war crimes? If the UK had lost it's part of WWII, would dropping the famous Barnes-Wallis bouncing bombs to flood industrial German cities be considered war crimes (and these men are British heroes - "The Dambusters")? In both events, the civilian deaths were simply phenomenal.

GoKents brought up an interesting point the other day in the GT3 forum - he wouldn't buy a BMW or Mitsubishi due to their part in supplying engines for Axis fighter planes. But he would buy a Rolls-Royce because, although they supplied engines for Allied fighters (and Boeing, these days), they were for the good guys...

 

[wellyrn]

It is hard to absolutely define good and bad. During WWII i can only assume most nazi's would call themselves the 'good' guys. Now it would be impossible outside the KKK to find anyone who would agree with that. In some conflicts it appears as Bad vs. Bad, many times it is simply idealogical differences that bring conflict. I think in modern times the focus should be on avoiding armed conflict at all costs. Every war since ww2 has been a result of it. In todays world, these wars will never end through more fighting. They will last forever unless the global community forces peace through non-violent action. Easier said than done but a strong world government is the only way out of another century of this b.s. Mostly we need to stop thinking of people as "enemies", we are all stuck on the same rock. Remove war and we have an unimagineable amount of resources we could be doing better things with, like giving Africa a hand. 👍

I think whatever the Iraqi courts decide will be best for Saddam. But, i still think he has a good chance of regaining control of his country. I saw today on the news that some Iraqis are already demonstrating they want just that. If he is punished i don't think it should be death, he should be humbled by a life in jail, if he dies now it will be as a martyr and hero in his own and his followers eyes.