Wheel vs. sixaxis...lap times

[cpp214]

I am seriously considering taking the $ plunge and investing in a good racing wheel (along with a seat/cockpit or wheel stand ) and I have been scouring this forum trying to determine how much improvement in lap times I can expect using a wheel instead of a sixaxis/dualshock 3.

Whenever I read posts/reviews everyone always remarks on the tremendous improvement in the overall gameplay "experience", which is great, but in terms of the actual numbers, I can't recall anyone stating how much a wheel/cockpit setup improves their actual laptimes. Is a good wheel/seat setup worth .5 per lap? Or is it worth a full second or more?

Also, are there any users out there who have made the switch from pad to wheel that could describe how it improved not only your lap times, but your performance in actual races?

As a dualshock 3 user, I have found that I can turn in fairly decent time trials, but only at the expense of many hours of practice. Also, while I am fairly competitive in actual races, I am finding that against stiff competition, I sometimes struggle to stay within 1, sometimes 2 seconds per lap of the fastest NTSC racers.

Before making an investment in a good wheel as well as a race seat/wheel stand, I just wanted to get some input from everyone here at the GTPlanet forum.

Finally, what wheel/stand/seat combos do you recommend and why?
I am currently strongly considering a G25/obutto race seat combo (around $550 , or a DFGT/wheel stand pro combo @ around $270 👍)

Again, any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[NLxAROSA]

Keep in mind that, when you first get your wheel, your times will increase initially, since you have to get to know the wheel. The time you gain by using a wheel depends on how good you are with the controller. I know people who get better times with a controller than me with the wheel. I gained about a second. Though it's hard to compare, since I don't use the controller anymore, so I expect my laptimes to be poo with it now anyway.

Have you considered the G25/Wheelstand Pro combo? I have this combination and I am *very* pleased with it.

 

[cpp214]

Keep in mind that, when you first get your wheel, your times will increase initially, since you have to get to know the wheel. The time you gain by using a wheel depends on how good you are with the controller. I know people who get better times with a controller than me with the wheel. I gained about a second. Though it's hard to compare, since I don't use the controller anymore, so I expect my laptimes to be poo with it now anyway.

Have you considered the G25/Wheelstand Pro combo? I have this combination and I am *very* pleased with it.

Thanks very much for the advice

I am glad you mentioned the combo you use. That would be quite a bit cheaper than the G25 with the obutto ($550 vs. $400) 👍
The only question I have about the wheelstand is, are the pedals stable on it?
If so, that may be the way to go. The main advantage I see in the obutto is that it has the monitor stand attachment, and that would help me out greatly seeing as my main consideration is the space it would save.
I live in a tiny one bedroom apartment and the extra room a wheel/stand/seat would take up is the main reason I haven't gotten a wheel yet (although the money is a big factor too...however, I don't spend a lot on other things such as clothes, vacations, etc. and the way I look at it, the entertainment/enjoyment of the setup will more than pay for itself in the long run )

 

[NLxAROSA]

Yes, the pedals are stable. Especially considering the fact that I have them sitting on top of the base without any attachment at all. They won't budge because of the rubbers. But if you want to, you can also attach the pedals to the base by using two bolts and tie-wraps.

 

[otago]

I found driving with pad in GTP is especially bad compare to other racing games, probably the game doesn't make any adjustment in controls for pad.

Driving with wheel is much more precise and smooth

 

[NapoleonMikey]

well ive been using a wheel for a while now and sadly the motor on it blew so going back to the DS3 im a good 4 seconds off my pace and thats after ive gotten back used to using the controller again. im sure if i kept using the controller id get most of those 4 seconds back but the level of control is missing where i can consistently put down good laps.

 

[The Outlaw]

I'm one of the guys who will be making the jump from pad to wheel any week now, so I'll definitely keep you updated on how the transition goes 👍 I ordered the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel w/clubsport pedals (should show up in ~2 weeks) as well as the Obutto Ozone racing seat.

Here's some food for thought.

I don't think there's an exact answer as to how much one will improve or not when switching to a wheel. It's all relative to how coordinated and how well you're able to adapt to driving a car with the 6-axis to begin with. I'd say if you are naturally gifted behind the wheel of a real car and have a good amount of real life racing/driving experience you should undoubtedly be able to match or improve your times by a fair amount, no matter what level of ability you have with the 6-axis. Most of the really fast 6-axis drivers have a deep understanding of proper lines and all of the aspects of putting in a fast, proper lap. They just lack the precision and consistency that a wheel provides. This is why I believe it would be pretty hard to take a step back in terms of laps times when switching to a wheel, unless you are just really uncoordinated with your feet or another aspect of using a wheel.

Another thing to think about of course is the fact that certain cars and tracks really need the fine precision of the wheel in order to drive at the absolute threshold of the cars allowable grip. So with some cars you may only improve your lap times marginally, while with other cars like the GTLM, you will likely see a huge improvement in control and in your laps times when using the wheel, thanks to the far superior precision you get from not only the throttle and brake, but also with the steering inputs.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I found driving with pad in GTP is especially bad compare to other racing games, probably the game doesn't make any adjustment in controls for pad.

Yes it does. Especially when switching to controller from wheel, you will notice the amount of assist you get with a controller is unbelievable! They did change the 'twitchyness' of the controller in the latest patch, and not for the better IMO. I usually have a different steering angle for Sixaxis in my tunes to compensate for this.

 

[cpp214]

I'm one of the guys who will be making the jump from pad to wheel any week now, so I'll definitely keep you updated on how the transition goes 👍 I ordered the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel w/clubsport pedals (should show up in ~2 weeks) as well as the Obutto Ozone racing seat.

Here's some food for thought.

I don't think there's an exact answer as to how much one will improve or not when switching to a wheel. It's all relative to how coordinated and how well you're able to adapt to driving a car with the 6-axis to begin with. I'd say if you are naturally gifted behind the wheel of a real car and have a good amount of real life racing/driving experience you should undoubtedly be able to match or improve your times by a fair amount, no matter what level of ability you have with the 6-axis. Most of the really fast 6-axis drivers have a deep understanding of proper lines and all of the aspects of putting in a fast, proper lap. They just lack the precision and consistency that a wheel provides. This is why I believe it would be pretty hard to take a step back in terms of laps times when switching to a wheel, unless you are just really uncoordinated with your feet or another aspect of using a wheel.

Another thing to think about of course is the fact that certain cars and tracks really need the fine precision of the wheel in order to drive at the absolute threshold of the cars allowable grip. So with some cars you may only improve your lap times marginally, while with other cars like the GTLM, you will likely see a huge improvement in control and in your laps times when using the wheel, thanks to the far superior precision you get from not only the throttle and brake, but also with the steering inputs.

These are some great points TA. I have also looked at the fanatec wheels and it seems that they are definitely a step up in quality from even the G25,
but when I saw how long it might take for them to arrive, I think that may be the deciding factor for me in going with either a DFGT or G25. I don't think I have the patience to wait until the end of May or even later in the summer for them to arrive.

Congratulations to you by the way for winning the Sixaxis championship 👍
I think I have only raced with you a couple of times, and I wasn't even close to your lap times. You are an incredible driver with the sixaxis, and I can't imagine how good you will be with a wheel

I am really looking forward to seeing how much you like the wheel and cockpit setup and how much your already blisteringly fast times improve, as I'm sure they will

 

[Mad94d]

I have a DFGT and I'm about 3 seconds a lap faster with a wheel. I don't have a fancy cockpit, just a steel frame home made.👍 The DFGT is a great wheel in my opinion, it's quite cheap too. I played GT games for years with a pad, now I know what I was missing out on!

 

[Stavingo]

I have a DFGT and I'm about 3 seconds a lap faster with a wheel. I don't have a fancy cockpit, just a steel frame home made.👍 The DFGT is a great wheel in my opinion, it's quite cheap too. I played GT games for years with a pad, now I know what I was missing out on!

Im in the same boat as this guy, but not as fast but it has definitely improved my average lap times.

 

[African Kat]

My ultimate lowest times improved by about a second, but the biggest difference is the consistent low times that can be achieved with the steering. This will help you tremendously in online racing.
The transition can be tricky though - stay with it though and you'll soon realise that GT5p was built for a steering and the thought of using a sixaxis again will be non-existent.

 

[ccmouse]

I transisted from pad to wheel a couple of months ago. 1-2 seconds improvement i can say. besides that is the consistency of lower lap times as African Kat said. The greatest improvements are on Eiger, London, and daytona, and on RWD cars. Ironically, I still feel hard to improve my times on FUJI set by sixaxis.

 

[caymanSrulz]

I also recently switched from a sixaxis to a DFGT and so far I have been much more consistent. I haven't done much running in games without TCS but I found I was consistently fast (for me at least) with a GT Tuned Vette Z06 without it. However I find it hard to get enough steering angle for hairpins such as those on Suzuka and especially Eiger. Does anyone know why? Is it wheel settings or game settings or just not turning enough?

 

[Obli]

I have used a wheel with GT4 and GT5: P before. I would recommend it for the extra level of feedback and immersion a wheel brings, rather than a potential improvement in lap times. It really does feel like a different game with a wheel. Having said that, I don't own a wheel - I like the convenience of a pad, versus a peripheral that is a little more of a hassle to set up, can look 'messy' and consumes more space.

 

[Stotty]

Personally, I think I eventually improved by somewhere between 1 to 1.5 seconds a lap using an average car round Suzuka when I switched to a wheel about 9 months ago. The improvement wasn't immediate though - it took me a good few weeks to get to the same speed I was running with the pad, and I feel I'm still improving with the wheel now. I've totally lost the ability to drive with the pad though - it just feels so alien and wrong!

However, some drivers do seem to make the transition relatively quickly - when Bollox switched he was immediately as quick if not quicker with the wheel - and he was already exceptionally quick with the pad.

The advantages a wheel offers are much bigger with some cars... powerful RWD cars on S tyres and anything running N tyres are much, much easier to drive with a wheel & pedals as they allow you to use much finer applications of steering angle and throttle. And of course it's much easier to left foot brake with pedals and this can help control the lift off oversteer on MR cars.

Regarding the wheelstand pro... I've had one as long as I've had my wheel (G25) and I can't praise it highly enough. I use mine in conjunction with one of the couch's in our living room. It's got loads of adjustability to suit different seating types/positions and when I'm not playing it folds down and hides at the side of the couch out of the way. For a small appartment I'd think it would be ideal.

 

[boiltheocean]

I don't think any of my times improved but I could consistently get a high time whereas on a sixaxis I could hit that time once or twice.

From my own point of view they could improve your lap time after you've been with them long enough but they will improve your overall time quickly.

 

[cpp214]

I have a DFGT and I'm about 3 seconds a lap faster with a wheel. I don't have a fancy cockpit, just a steel frame home made.👍 The DFGT is a great wheel in my opinion, it's quite cheap too. I played GT games for years with a pad, now I know what I was missing out on!

Thanks for the advice Mad. I am strongly leaning toward a DFGT due to the affordability. Plus, if it's good enough for you and Dan, it should be good enough for anybody. You guys are two of the most incredible drivers on here.
If I could even come close to improving my times by anywhere near three seconds, I would be ecstatic 👍

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I seem to of hit a plateau, with my times as previoulsy with a pad I was able to get of Division 1 time yet I have since bought a G25 and seem to of ruined my ability to get quick times with either pad or wheel. I am working on it though and hope to get my times back, which I am convinced I will get eventually.

 

[Synwraith]

Hi,

I'm another of those long-time sixaxis users who has just made the transition to the G25 Logitech racing wheel. I ordered mine yesterday and hope to get it tomorrow.

I wasn't too slack with the Sixaxis (only got pipped by alien Timeattack in the Sixaxis Championship final ) so I've decided like Brock to do a bit of a study.

There are a number of Time Trials that I did well on and spent ages on, there are also some that I spent forever on and got nowhere near good times using the Sixaxis. As soon as I get my wheel I am hitting those time trials and I will record how long it takes me to get to those laptimes and if I can, better those times.

I've been on pad since Gran Turismo 1, and I race using shoulder buttons for gas and brake, and the D-pad for steering.

The car/track combos I will be looking closely are:
- Mazda RX-07 at Fuji F (S2) time trial
- Ferrari 512BB at Eiger Reverse (S2) Time trial
- Nissan GTR at London Reverse (S2) Time trial
- Opera 350Z tuned at HSR (N3) time trial
- Lotus Evora at Suzuka (S2) time trial

as I have already put many hours into those for WRS or some other competition.

All the best
Maz

 

[cpp214]

Hi,

I'm another of those long-time sixaxis users who has just made the transition to the G25 Logitech racing wheel. I ordered mine yesterday and hope to get it tomorrow.

I wasn't too slack with the Sixaxis (only got pipped by alien Timeattack in the Sixaxis Championship final ) so I've decided like Brock to do a bit of a study.

There are a number of Time Trials that I did well on and spent ages on, there are also some that I spent forever on and got nowhere near good times using the Sixaxis. As soon as I get my wheel I am hitting those time trials and I will record how long it takes me to get to those laptimes and if I can, better those times.

I've been on pad since Gran Turismo 1, and I race using shoulder buttons for gas and brake, and the D-pad for steering.

The car/track combos I will be looking closely are:
- Mazda RX-07 at Fuji F (S2) time trial
- Ferrari 512BB at Eiger Reverse (S2) Time trial
- Nissan GTR at London Reverse (S2) Time trial
- Opera 350Z tuned at HSR (N3) time trial
- Lotus Evora at Suzuka (S2) time trial

as I have already put many hours into those for WRS or some other competition.

All the best
Maz

Congratulations to you as well, Maz. I watched a couple of the youtube videos of your showdown with TA, and there wasn't much to choose from between the two of you. You are both awesome racers, especially considering you use the sixaxis as well. I am looking forward to both your analysis as well as timeattack's analysis of your transition to the wheel and how much it changes (hopefully improves ) your overall laptimes and gameplay experience.

On that note, I guess I should say that I too have finally come to a decision, and like you Maz, have decided to purchase a G25 wheel. I was really struggling to make a decision between the G25 and the DFGT, and I guess for me it came down to the quality of the peddles, as well as the clutch, h-pattern shifter (although I imagine I'll probably just use the paddle shifters) and the dual motors inside the G25. The only thing I regret about the G25 is the fact that you can't make real-time in-race adjustments as you can with the DFGT. I imagine this would come in very handy on certain time trials as well as in certain races where you have a setup that works perfectly except in one or two corners where a small brake-bias adjustment could mean the difference between victory or defeat...oh well. I also ordered a wheel stand pro to go along with the G25. I decided that for my current living situation, the mobility/flexibility of the wheel stand was the way to go.

Although these two items have proven quite pricey ($179 for the stand, $256 for the wheel ) it is about $200 cheaper than an obutto/G25 combo, and I fully believe that it will pay for itself many times over with countless hours of enjoyment and, hopefully, significant improvement in my overall driving performance.

Thanks to everybody who has responded to this thread. I have really appreciated your input and hope that you keep responding with your thoughts on this topic--especially those members that use a sixaxis and are considering or have already made the switch to a wheel. Or, better yet, perhaps Synwraith or Timeattack could start their own thread and give everybody an idea of how their transition to a wheel is going. Hopefully, when I get my wheel and stand sometime within the next week or so, I will be able to contribute some feedback as well on how much (if any) improvement the wheel makes to my laptimes and overall experience.

 

[Jarru]

Real-time in-race adjustments can be done with G25.Go to OPTIONS and change your button configuration.There are more info about that somewhere in here.

 

[The Outlaw]

Congratulations to you as well, Maz. I watched a couple of the youtube videos of your showdown with TA, and there wasn't much to choose from between the two of you. You are both awesome racers, especially considering you use the sixaxis as well. I am looking forward to both your analysis as well as timeattack's analysis of your transition to the wheel and how much it changes (hopefully improves ) your overall laptimes and gameplay experience.

On that note, I guess I should say that I too have finally come to a decision, and like you Maz, have decided to purchase a G25 wheel. I was really struggling to make a decision between the G25 and the DFGT, and I guess for me it came down to the quality of the peddles, as well as the clutch, h-pattern shifter (although I imagine I'll probably just use the paddle shifters) and the dual motors inside the G25. The only thing I regret about the G25 is the fact that you can't make real-time in-race adjustments as you can with the DFGT. I imagine this would come in very handy on certain time trials as well as in certain races where you have a setup that works perfectly except in one or two corners where a small brake-bias adjustment could mean the difference between victory or defeat...oh well. I also ordered a wheel stand pro to go along with the G25. I decided that for my current living situation, the mobility/flexibility of the wheel stand was the way to go.

Although these two items have proven quite pricey ($179 for the stand, $256 for the wheel ) it is about $200 cheaper than an obutto/G25 combo, and I fully believe that it will pay for itself many times over with countless hours of enjoyment and, hopefully, significant improvement in my overall driving performance.

Thanks to everybody who has responded to this thread. I have really appreciated your input and hope that you keep responding with your thoughts on this topic--especially those members that use a sixaxis and are considering or have already made the switch to a wheel. Or, better yet, perhaps Synwraith or Timeattack could start their own thread and give everybody an idea of how their transition to a wheel is going. Hopefully, when I get my wheel and stand sometime within the next week or so, I will be able to contribute some feedback as well on how much (if any) improvement the wheel makes to my laptimes and overall experience.

The G25 is an excellent choice 👍

Yea, I will definately create a thread on how the transition goes once the wheel shows up. Like Maz, I will do a few time trials to begin with, which I had previously done with the pad. Some of these include: TVR at London Reverse, GTLM at Daytona Road, and RX7 at Fuji, among a few other TT's for comparison sake 👍

The anticipation for my wheel to show up has been brutal to say the least. Like you, I really want to see in what direction my times go as well as the general enjoyment of the game. I'll keep you updated

 

[Blitz187]

The G25 is an excellent choice 👍

Yea, I will definately create a thread on how the transition goes once the wheel shows up. Like Maz, I will do a few time trials to begin with, which I had previously done with the pad. Some of these include: TVR at London Reverse, GTLM at Daytona Road, and RX7 at Fuji, among a few other TT's for comparison sake 👍

The anticipation for my wheel to show up has been brutal to say the least. Like you, I really want to see in what direction my times go as well as well as the general enjoyment of the game. I'll keep you updated

If Im not mistaken youre getting a Fanatec right??? How much longer and Im definately going to follow the transition, I want to know how those wheels are since Im looking to upgrade in the near future

 

[The Outlaw]

If Im not mistaken youre getting a Fanatec right??? How much longer and Im definately going to follow the transition, I want to know how those wheels are since Im looking to upgrade in the near future

Yea, I ordered the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel w/clubsport pedals. The first production run is supposed to be delivered to customers in late April, so it should arrive on my door step any week now I believe they were getting ready to ship them out on the first of this month, as production was finished for the first run of pre-orders. With that said, I'd imagine that our wheels should definately arrive on time though.

I'll be doing a nice review when the wheel arrives, so keep your eyes peeled for that shortly 👍

 

[EERS4YEARS]

Ive read the $3000 dollar Frex wheel is comprable with G25, just a little smoother and quieter. With that said, get a G25 for $250, and a AK-200 chair is $250, thats what I have, and its awesome. I couldnt drive Pro physics with a controller, now Im as fast or Faster than most people in Pro physics... top 30 in stage 3 logitech challenge with about 1/2 hour track time.

 

[StarFlare]

I made the switch to DFGT about a year ago. The transition period took about 2 days but it really makes the gaming experice 10x better. For me the biggest advantage is the gas/brake control. It's much easier to modulate with your feet than your fingers.

 

[ccmouse]

I want to add a couple of other findings:
1. I was using bumper cam on sixaxis. But after transisted to a wheel, I could no longer take ref points in that view, so I transisted my view to in-car.
2. One day i broke my foot and had to switch back to sixaxis for the racing. I found that was way too boring and I quitted to play other games after 30 minutes.