Which is the more influential V8, the Buick/Rover V8, or the Chevy smallblock?

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After a general approval of the Idea, (with a 23%Tralfamadorian turnout), I'll set this thread to be open for exactly one week.

Which is the more influential engine design, the Buick?Rover V8, or the Chevrolet Smallblock?

THe Smallblock was introduced in 1955 as an option above the dated 235 cubic inch six. THe 1955 265 cubic inch smallblock put out 162 horses, and that's where the fun started.. The Smallblock was one of the first engines to get 1hp/cubic inch, and it's been the mainstay of Hotrodding and racing since it's inception. They've been the cheapest way for good power for a long time, and they're easily upgradeable.

The Smallblock has been in everything from Tow Trucks to ultima GTRs, and it's not going around anythime soon.


GM Tried an All aluminum small engine in 1961. THe 215 cubic inch motor weighed just over 300 lbs, and put out 200 horses. But, GM sold the V8 design to Rover in 1964, who redesigned it and fixed the problems GM didn't have the patience to deal with. The V8 would end up being lighter than the smaller motors it replaced, and it soon found its way onto european racetracks. It's the british "smallblock", And for good reason. It's what makes us drool when we hear a TVR. It even went to F1 when Repco made it SOHC and 3 liters, but the block couldn't handle the stress.

GTPlanet, which of these two motors has made the bigger impact in the world of cars?
 
In the UK and maybe Europe I'd say the Rover V8. Worldwide, probably the Chevy small block.
 
There's only one correct answer if you live in the U.S...
 
Well even if you live outside of the US. I mean cmon, Marcos is using a small-block V8 in their new TSO.
 
So, Marcos is a tiny, tiny company, they're tiny, tiny, even compared to TVR they're tiny and the number of Rover V8 powered TVR's out there is high for a specialast sportscar maker, much higher than the sales of the TSO will ever be. The TSO is a great car mind. There's not many Chevy small block car's in europe, the number of Rover V8 engined Seven replicas alone probably out numbers the total number of Chevy small blocks here.
 
No contest, hell I dont even know what the rover v8 is!
 
We can have this discussion--just please do NOT turn it into a European or American bashing fest. I would say the Chevy smallblock is known more worldwide and thus would win the catagory.
 
Im not going to, I mean I dont really like either one, but at least I know what Chevy is.
Respect to Rover.
 
I'd have to say the GM Small block since the Rover V8 was a refined version of that engine.

Without the GM original design the Rover design would have never come to be and so I think it is fair to say the GM was more influential.

Now, "which is more well known?" that question is harder to answer and much more relative to the area you live in. :sly:
 
Well, which has done more, or brought in more change?

Performance and Image wise, the Smallblock is the clear winner. But, All-aluminum motors have come a long way from the 215 that overheated because the antifreeze turned to sludge in aluminum. All aluminum motors are the norm now in performance. The Koenigsegg uses an all aluminum V8.

Think more abstract guys, It's more than horsepower.
 
I find myself sort of crossed between the two here, so lets go over each motor:

Chevy small-block: Simply put, this may be one of the best inventions to ever come out of the United States. The design is simple, and has been easy to evolve over the years all the way to the Chevrolet LS7. The good thing about the small-block, particularly the 350 design, is that it has been made for so long and that the design was so good, that nothing needed change until the LS-series design change came about in 1997/1998. You can buy a baisic Chevrolet 350 with just shy of 300Hp for less than $3000 these days, as it is still one of the cheapest engines you can buy.

But the engine is not without its faults either. There have been stories where they consume oil, and overheating has been a problem with some designs as well. But I think in comparison to the rest of the world's V8 lines, Chevrolet's engines are quite reliable, and when taken care of, rarely act up.

Buick/Rover V8: If I'm not mistaken, this is the second longest running engine design besides the Chevrolet small-block. Like the Chevy, the Rover has evolved with the times, displacements increasing and decreasing, being fitted into cars big and small all across Europe. We can thank the Rover design for powering the TVRs we know and love, staying in our Land Rovers for decades, and even being straped under the hoods of the beloved Super Seven.

Now I will be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on the Rover V8, so I cannot criticise it completely. But from what I understand, they are pretty reliable just like the Chevy when treated right.

-----

What it all comes down to is how many cars the engines have been used in, and how relevant the design is to this day. For those reasons, I must give the nod to the Chevrolet small-block. GM has said that they plan to continue the design well into the future, and with the different designs being developed for so many of their different models, it is obviously still relevant. Not to say the Rover design is not, but from what I understand, Land Rover was the last to still be using it besides TVR...

Both of these engines are winners however, as they have both been very successful not only in their respective regions, but also around the world. The two engines are so similar, and so important to both America and Europe, it was a tough call to make.
 
Well said YSSMAN. That's what I was looking for in this thread.

Oh come on YSSMAN, you can get a good 350 from a salvage yard for less than 700... Usually you get a free carrying case too!:dopey:

Part of me wants to say that the Smallblock is the better engine, becasuse it's proven that even at 50 it can still learn new tricks.

Yet, part of me says the Rover, because it changed the way engines were made, and seen. a V8 no longer had to be a monstrosity with the Rover.

I still haven't voted yet... It's hard for me to decide!
 
Well I truely think it really depends on how you look at it. I mean, they are both very cheap and very reliable engines to buy and run, and both are well suited to so many different tasks. To think that up until a few years ago they were still runing the old Rover in the Disco is mad, and look how the Jaguar 4.3L has changed it... GM still uses the small-block design even with displacements that were once reserved for big-blocks. Everything from the 4800 to the LS7 is based on the same design, and a good number of the V6s still in GM's lineup are baisicly chopped 350s and 305s.

What Chevrolet did was make a V8 available that was powerful and affordable at the same time. Before then, Ford had completely dominated the V8 market in the US, and Chevy needed a winner. What really made the platform what it is today was it's involvement with the Corvette, in which most of the greatest developments of the engine itself were done. Everything from fuel-injection to later DOHC technology (that would be the LT5) was done with the Corvette before it went anywhere, which made the car not only a showcase for American power, but American engineering as well.

I suppose the point I'm getting at is that the Chevy really created the V8 market that we see today. Sure, there are designs that may be considered better by some standards, but the fact that the Chevy really has changed so little since 1955 is staggering. I've seen the engine in everything from Volkswagen Beetles to Mosler MT900s. The engine still finds it's home in the Chevrolet NASCARs, and has let Team Corvette dominate the GT class in almost every race it has been in.

The Rover is a wonderful engine, and I would be stupid to say it isnt... But the Chevrolet just offers up so much more, thus I voted for it to be the winner.
 
Well being American my experience lies with the smallblock Chevy. I honestly know very little about the Rover. Does anyone have any schematics or anything?

So with my limited knowledge of the Rover I am going to say the smallblock is the most influential if not the most well known engine in all of history. It is amazing that after 50 years GM is still messaging that thing and doing utterly fantastic things with it. I think another reason the smallblock has to be the pick is the shear fact that it is synonimous to hot rodding and custom cars. Honestly when I hear hot rod I think small block chevy. It's a highly tunable, fairly reliable, and inexpensive engine and those are just a few reasons it is so heralded by the rodders and general car world.
 
To learn more about the Rover, check out the Wiki page on the Rover V8.

Baisically youre looking at a design that GM scrapped, Rover re-designed, and later powered some of the world's best automobiles, including:
- MGBGT V8
- Triumph TR8
- MG RV8
- TVR Chimaera
- TVR Griffith
- Land Rover Range Rover
- Land Rover Discovery
- Land Rover 90/110/Defender

More modern versions of the engine have been used in Caterhams, as well as Morgans, etc. It has been in damn near everything made in the UK, much like how the Chevy has been in damn near everything made in the US.

Top Gear had a short video about the Rover V8 on the American version of the show last year, but I don't have a copy to show you. It baiscally told the history, and showed the future. A small British company will be building the engines under the guidance of Land Rover for the aftermarket and OEM replacement folks as well, similar to how many people still build the Chevy 350 long after it changed.
 
So you mean that the European V8s are all related to the Rover V8 somehow? Like the Jaguar 4.2L V8?
 
...No, not all European V8s are...

The Rover design was mostly used by MG/Rover and the rest of the Rover group for quite some time (up until 2005 as a matter of fact). But there were plenty of other companies that used the design as well in their cars, but most of them were lower production models.

The new Jaguar designs are just that, Jaguar designs. It seems as though it will be the new shared-technology V8 in the Ford group, as it is the Jaguars, Land Rovers, and Aston Martins as well.
 
Overall I would say the Small block Chevrolet engine.

Holden even offered the small block from 1967 to around 1974 in our cars, thats even when we made our own local V8. then again since 1999 which completely replaced our local V8.Overall Small block Chevs are very popular in Australia and my father has imported 100's of them and they sell instantly.

I have had quite alot of experience with with small block but not much with the Rover V8 purely because there is little demand for them here so I can't comment on them too much.

I do admire the carburation you see on many rover V8's with their side draft carbys. Not a common thing to see on American/Australian V8's.
 
YSSMAN
To learn more about the Rover, check out the Wiki page on the Rover V8.

Baisically youre looking at a design that GM scrapped, Rover re-designed, and later powered some of the world's best automobiles, including:
- MGBGT V8
- Triumph TR8
- MG RV8
- TVR Chimaera
- TVR Griffith
- Land Rover Range Rover
- Land Rover Discovery
- Land Rover 90/110/Defender

More modern versions of the engine have been used in Caterhams, as well as Morgans, etc. It has been in damn near everything made in the UK, much like how the Chevy has been in damn near everything made in the US.

Top Gear had a short video about the Rover V8 on the American version of the show last year, but I don't have a copy to show you. It baiscally told the history, and showed the future. A small British company will be building the engines under the guidance of Land Rover for the aftermarket and OEM replacement folks as well, similar to how many people still build the Chevy 350 long after it changed.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be really anal, but it was Westfield.

oversteer.jpg


And also the Rover V8 lives on in the Wildcat... for now.

4960_9_4024_1.jpg
 
YSSMAN
To learn more about the Rover, check out the Wiki page on the Rover V8.

Baisically youre looking at a design that GM scrapped, Rover re-designed, and later powered some of the world's best automobiles, including:
- MGBGT V8
- Triumph TR8
- MG RV8
- TVR Chimaera
- TVR Griffith
- Land Rover Range Rover
- Land Rover Discovery
- Land Rover 90/110/Defender
Click to expand...

You forgot:
- Rover P5 and SDi
- TVR V8S, Tuscan racer, 350i, 400i, 420Seac, etc, etc
- Many Marcos

You could probably include the MG Metro 6R4 and Jag XJ220 since the V6's in them were derived from the Rover V8.

YSSMAN
More modern versions of the engine have been used in Caterhams, as well as Morgans, etc.
Click to expand...

Like ultrabeat said, it was used in the Westfield SEight - never in a Caterham (not from the factory anyway)


As much as i love the Rover V8 and its contribution to British sportscars and motor racing, I voted for the Chevy since its impact world wide is much more impressive. Even from a strictly British point of view the Chevy engine has been used in so many cars sold in Britain it would be hard to judge the Rover higher. Although they've never been imported in large quantities to the UK, they have been made since the mid 60's - so the amount of Vettes and Camaros that reside in the UK must be in the thousands, add to that the amount of Ultimas, Chevy powered Marcos, Chevy powered kit-cars (so many Cobra reps use it! :rolleyes: ) and on top of that all the Vauxhall/Holden Monaros that have been sold, the Chevy small block is a well used power plant over here and will continue to be so.

The 'small-block' Ford V8 has probably been used more here in the UK though. MG/Rover used it in their flagship car before they folded, TVR also used to use it in the original Griffith and Tuscans.
 
I'd have to say the Rover V8 due to the afore-mentioned TVRs, Rover SD1s etc.

I still think its weird that a small block starts at 3.9 litres and went up to about 5.7! Hardly small. (Although it's teeny compared to the 7.4 litre big block!)
 
daan
I'd have to say the Rover V8 due to the afore-mentioned TVRs, Rover SD1s etc.

I still think its weird that a small block starts at 3.9 litres and went up to about 5.7! Hardly small. (Although it's teeny compared to the 7.4 litre big block!)
Click to expand...

Isn't the C6 Z06's engine still considered a derivative of the small-block even at 7 litres?

I think the terms 'small' or 'large' come from the actual size of the block rather than the capacity.
 
Yep, it is.
Ive always wondered why its still a SMALL block over 5 litres. But yes, the CrackR is right, its the size not the displacement that determines the name.
 
I'd say the Cheby. though, i personally like Mopar "A" engines, and 3rd-gen Hemis better, it's by far the most influential V8.

Ford and Mopar copied it's BASIC design for their small blocks. It's been hot-rodded from the get go. Guys put them in their Ts and As (I am, of course, talking of Fords, not female anatomy) all the time. It's been in sports cars, too, Chevy Corvettes, Moslers, and many independents. Hell, it launched the Cobra Replicar buisness. (though the preferred engine is now a Ford 351) Guys put them in Jaguars, RX7s, bacuase of reliability and power.

Yeah, the small block's been around.
 
@To comment back on the posts target at me: I apologise, I'm really not an expert on the Rover V8, I just gave back some information that I had read on the Wiki.

The Caterham mention however was done to give a general definition of the car, as if I were to say Westfield, most Americans would go, "Huh?"
 
I voted Smallblock.

It is the reason we have affordable performance V8s nowadays, as it was the only affordable V8 with any performance. (The flathead maybe put out 100 horses, and the olds rocket and Cadillac 331s were really expensive)) If it weren't for the Smallblock, V8s might have still been relegated to Luxury cars, and Racing might not have grown as well. Plus, it's a simple design that's almost foolproof. One can also mix cranks and blocks and heads to make wacky displacements. (327 crank+283 Block = 302, etc.)

18436572!
 
Small block chevy period. Everyone puts the small block chevy into everything. I have even seen dune buggies, Ford vehicles, Oldsmobile vehicles and just about everything with small block chevy. Simply because it is the most affordable engine to build. When it comes to bang for the buck the small block almost always wins. I have had olds, buick, ford, chevy, big blocks and everything and I have learned its soo much easier and affordable to stick with the small block Chevy.
It can be built into a 383 stroker with 400hp 450lb torque for only about $3,000.
There are also tons of available parts.
 
So was the Rover V8, it was put into all sorts of cars, small car's, big cars, super cars, rally cars, off road buggies, sportscars, it formed the basis of the Metro 6R4 engine which in turn formed the basis of the Jag XJ220, it powered TVR's, Rover's, Range Rover, Land Rovers (see some connection in these last few :p) morgan's, Seven replicas a hell of a lot of kit cars are Rover V8 enigned or at least were Rover V8 engined. But the point is, the variation of vehicles the Rover V8 ended up in was very, well varied. I would still say the Chevy small block not because it went into a more varied range of cars, it may have, but I neither know that, nor care but for the fact as Kent mentioned, the Rover V8 stemmed from a deveopment of the Chevy small block and I would say, the Chevy engine has appeared in more actual cars worldwide ever. Maybe not over here, but worldwide it has. Alot of people are answering this without thinking outside their local car companies, and without much knowledge of one or perhaps even both of the engines and the cars they appeared in. Yes I agree the Chevy small bloock was the most influencial, but considering how influential the Rover V8 was, a lot of you seem to be pretty dismissive of it, which is a pity, it was a fantastic engine.
 
I'm not dismissing it at all. It's a damn cool motor, A rover V8 can turn a Datsun 510 into a very deadly machine.

Say you had a Model A chassis, a Ford 9" rear and the option of either a Rover V8 or a 350. Which one would you choose?

Part of me says the Smallblock for power reasons. But, the Rover is far lighter. So then the weight wouldn't be as unbalanced as it would be, and the car itself would be lighter. Also, it would get better gas mileage, while still putting out some good power.

If I were building a Model A rod, I'd choose the Rover. (Well, in a perfect world I'd have a SCoT blown ARDUN flathead, but life isn't that peachy)

Did they ever make Hilborn systems for the Buick/rover 215? I think Hilborn trumpets would look sick on top of one.


And, from a car dork's standpoint, the Rover probably has smaller valves than the 350. Smaller valves respond better to velocity,(so I'm told) so a tunnel ram or blower on a Rover V8 would be a holy terror.
 
As far as i can research, the Rover V8 could be brought out to no more than 5ltrs with a road useable 400bhp the naturally asparated limit.

The Chevy is upto 7ltrs and i've seen it available with 720bhp and still considered a road engine.

I suppose whilst the Chevy is a 'small-block' the Rover could be classed as a 'smaller-block'

The Rover unit wins it on weight, while the Chevy has it on tunability.
 
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