Why does my RX7 spin out when braking so much

[sicbeing]

So I practice a lot on toscana custom courses where I try to simulate a mountain pass. I normally drive AWD like Evos and STIs, but I wanted to really try and learn to play these courses with a FR, so I went for the RX7 FD.

I cannot for the life of me make this car stop doing 180s when I brake hard. I cannot tune cars very well but I tried reading the description for a lot of the suspension stuff. This lead me to lower the car a lot, stiffin the back end and loosin the front end. Thsi really didnt help out at all.

If I'm at a higher speed, brake, and try to turn in slightly, the car's back end loses all traction and I just lose it. I cannot trail brake whatsoever.

What else can I do to help this? I don't think it has to do much with the fact that it's an FR, and i don't have this problem with the FC i tried in comparison.

 

[Adrenaline]

Well, based on your setup, it looks like... oh wait.

 

[sicbeing]

what?

 

[1Fast335i]

Soften the rear end slightly and adjust your brake bias more to the front.



PSN: gearloos

 

[Rotary Junkie]

1. Which FD is it?

2. We need you to post your current setup so we can see what's wrong with it (if it's something readily visible).

If it's the '91 prem (or any of the '97-and-earlier standards) it will always be a tailhappy car with fairly low grip levels and there's no real avoiding it (though it can be made drivable). If it's a '98+ it shouldn't be trying to kill you.

Edit: @1Fast335i: Softening the rear is the worst one can do to try and prevent lift-off oversteer as it will actually cause more forward weight transfer. Stiffening it in the rear will do the opposite. Agree with shifting brake bias forward to an extent though.

 

[sicbeing]

Thanks for the replies.

Its the FD that has a wierd efiniy or whatever in the front of the name, and the the premium model.

I tried to move the brakes to the front (8 - 5 and tried 10 - 5) but it just makes my brakes lockup faster. yea, it helped the tail end from swinging when braking but it also made me slide in an controllable understeer faster when braking. wasnt really what I was lookin for.

The setup last I check was basically stock with maybe the car lowered to -15 on both ends and the front and back end stiffened up to about 50%. I tried messing with the rear camber but it didnt help much. I was thinking of buying a wign and adding some downforce, but i don't brake at high speeds too often.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Try setting the springs to 7.5/13.0. It may understeer like that but yeahhhhh...

 

[sicbeing]

If I remember right i tried most of the (soft on the front super hard in the back) settings and it was still super swingy whe I hit the brakes.

 

[SergioMPS]

why would you want hard in back?!
i think the problem is your driving style, you mention you drive AWD most of the time, so you probably braking and turning at the same time, that doesnt work that well on RWD cars unless you set up correctly LSD

 

[Rotary Junkie]

why would you want hard in back?!

Because it's got a massive effect in calming the car down quite a bit.

i think the problem is your driving style, you mention you drive AWD most of the time, so you probably braking and turning at the same time, that doesnt work that well on RWD cars unless you set up correctly LSD

I know the problem is that the early FD is a very tailhappy car regardless of what you do. You almost have to drive it like a Porsche 911.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Buy the wing...that should fix most, if not all of the tail happiness under braking at high speed.

Next time you have a question like this, I'd suggest first doing a search of tunes to find one for your car and try it and see if it works for you. If that doesn't work, post your entire tune so that people can review specifics rather than generalities. Lots of guys around here could turn a Mini into a Ferrari, but not without specifics.

 

[CSLACR]

Because you're turning the wheel to hard.

 

[MONSTAR-1]

To much forward brake bias will make the rear light under hard braking. So avoid that.
Put a wing on it with max down force.
The FD will always slide under breaking. Its FD's nature. You will always feel that you dont get the most out of it but its fast.
Learn to let the car slide into corners and control it with throttle.

Oh and dont go stiffening the springs to much. Not needed at all.

 

[dr_slump]

I know the problem is that the early FD is a very tailhappy car regardless of what you do. You almost have to drive it like a Porsche 911.

Really? Is the early FD worse than the FC 91'?



@OP
Could it be that your car has a negative rear toe? 💡

I tried to move the brakes to the front (8 - 5 and tried 10 - 5) but it just makes my brakes lockup faster. yea, it helped the tail end from swinging when braking but it also made me slide in an controllable understeer faster when braking. wasnt really what I was lookin for.

Sorry, but this post makes me laugh! Why the hell didn't you lower the rear sensitivity?

 

[Lambob]

The little that I have played online, I took the BP RX7 for a spin, and it literally ... spun. non stop. I envisioned giving this POS of a car to a rival, so I can lap him in a '65 FIAT.

 

[dr_slump]

The little that I have played online, I took the BP RX7 for a spin, and it literally ... spun. non stop. I envisioned giving this POS of a car to a rival, so I can lap him in a '65 FIAT.

Even with rear brake 0?

 

[daveyules]

Try increasing either: the rear shock extension, front shock compression, or LSD Decel. If you are not using ABS, either brake with less force, or turn it on.

One or all of those should help.

Cheers

 

[vett'e]

FR cars should have a stiffer spring rate for the front than the rear mainly because of the weight distribution and to account for braking loads. Secondly, adjust the brake bias so its stronger on the front (7 ; 5) and if you have installed a LSD, then increase the braking sensitivity (albeit slight decrease in performance on turn in).

 

[Johnnypenso]

Get the wing.

 

[barryyee]

give your rear a softer tire than the back.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Really? Is the early FD worse than the FC 91'?

Yep. The FC is, if anything, a bit on the tight side and a little lacking on grip.

The early FDs are tailhappy as hell (try the '92 RZ with just light mods and survive it, I dare you) and have about the same overall grip levels as the FC. Only difference is the FD can run a good bit more powerrrrrrrrr.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

 

[kilttraeger]

Yep. The FC is, if anything, a bit on the tight side and a little lacking on grip.

The early FDs are tailhappy as hell (try the '92 RZ with just light mods and survive it, I dare you) and have about the same overall grip levels as the FC. Only difference is the FD can run a good bit more powerrrrrrrrr.

Ah... thanks for the enlightenment
I already had the Spirit R for 500ish PP races, and it's quite a nice drive, and was wondering why I could not drive the 'old' RZ without going sideways

 

[Capt Air]

Do you have a wheel or a controller? Because I have the same car, with slight mods with a DFGT, and other then that All I did (I was on TGTT) is lowed the rear brake to about 3~4 and moved the front I think 6, and never had a problem ay all. I didn't change the LSD, or suspension settings

 

[kilttraeger]

Do you have a wheel or a controller? Because I have the same car, with slight mods with a DFGT, and other then that All I did (I was on TGTT) is lowed the rear brake to about 3~4 and moved the front I think 6, and never had a problem ay all. I didn't change the LSD, or suspension settings

Wheel (DFGT). Problem wasn't the breaking (I like a car to feel loose on entry), but acceleration out of corners. It felt like there was no weight on the rear wheels, and you really had to feather the throttle. Quite slow getting out of corners, but hell it was fast on the straight

As said, no problem at all with the Spirit R, so I guess RJ is right with the early RZ being a tail happy car.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

The problem is mostly due the torque band. While RX-7 doesn't actually have much of torque, it is a light car. I noticed that installing high RPM turbo cured the slippy tail under exit completely. Turbo lag FTW

 

[shmogt]

grab a tune from someone and add racing soft tires. Also make more brake power in the bake so the weight doesn't fly forward as much when cornering. You said you wanted to use a FR car instead best advice is just choose a different car than and forget about RX-7

 

[euros only]

Turn brake assist to 10 if you have it at 1 the rotors will just lock up and you go spinning i always set to 10