Why does the STI out perform the EVO so bad.

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

I am a big EVO guy. I know that both cars are very similar. I am not saying that the evo should be better just want to know why the sti is so much better. Every article i have ever read in a magazine Evo post faster lap times on track then STI tho the STI was always Faster in a straight line. For some reason i can not be competitive in the 550 AWD day challenge online or less i am in an STI which i do not think is right, and i do not want to hear that you can tune an sti better then an evo because last i check 4G63 holds the record for fastest 4 cylinder in the 1/4 mile by Brent Rowel i believe. I mean maybe that has changed and yes i know that it is in a eclipse or Talon can not remember off top of my head but it is the same motor used in the Evo. It just frustrates me that i have to use an STI just to be in the race. I do not care that i am in the STI i just which that 550 would make every car that has a PP of 550 a even race other wise i do not see a reason for having the PP system. Is the point of the PP system to make it a close race with no matter what you drive? i do not know but if maybe somebody can tell me why it is like that and if this is to be corrected for GT5 that would be great to know thanks.

 

[niky]

Have you tuned both cars? With the same PP, an Evo X is just as fast or faster than the STi... as it is, stock to stock, the Evo's PP is lower because it has a shallower torque curve and weighs more. I don't drive on that many tracks, but doing PP testing, it seems that at equal PPs, the Evo is slightly better, and stock to stock, the Evo seems to corner better, but is so much slower in a straight line that the STi beats the snot out of it on most tracks.

 

[Paulie]

To be honest I must agree with ryanVAMPIRATE. The Evo IX is supposed to be faster than the X and WRXs in real life, yet in the game is the slowest of the 4. Take a gander at road rallies, it's the older Evos that dominate, WRXs don't stand a chance. Take a look at production car championships, the Evos again are fairly dominant compared to the WRXs. I don't know if the Evo is really that much faster, but certainly it shouldn't be as slow as it is. (Although realistically all the Japanese cars should be slower than they are in the game).

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

Have you tuned both cars? With the same PP, an Evo X is just as fast or faster than the STi... as it is, stock to stock, the Evo's PP is lower because it has a shallower torque curve and weighs more. I don't drive on that many tracks, but doing PP testing, it seems that at equal PPs, the Evo is slightly better, and stock to stock, the Evo seems to corner better, but is so much slower in a straight line that the STi beats the snot out of it on most tracks.

I did have my evo x and ix tuned to 550 and the STI smoke me every time. i thought my tunes where bad so i came here and found out that my tune was very similar to the ones recommended and i still got stomped when i switched to there tune. Paulie thanks for saying that i just glad i am not the only one that feel this way about it.

 

[Jay]

I do agree the Evo IX does seem strangley slow compared (in GT5P) to the other Japanese sports cars, in real life the Evo X should not be able to spank it so hard. Still nice to drive.

In GT4 the Evo VIII was blistering fast compared to other usual Japanese sports cars so why is the Evo IX in GT5P so different?


BTW I have been talking stock for stock.

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

I do agree the Evo IX does seem strangley slow compared (in GT5P) to the other Japanese sports cars, in real life the Evo X should not be able to spank it so hard. Still nice to drive.

In GT4 the Evo VIII was blistering fast compared to other usual Japanese sports cars so why is the Evo IX in GT5P so different?


BTW I have been talking stock for stock.

Stock for Stock, tuned for tuned it still makes no sense to me either way. GT4 yeah it was one of my favorite cars to drive and now i feel disappointed that it is not even worth owning in the game. Mitsubishi Evo is my seconded favorite car besides the Mazda Rx7 if you could not tell by my Avatar. Even the Rx7 i feel is really underestimated. I hope that GT5 brings life back into these cars or a patch till we get it. GT has been my favorite game since i was 10 it is what has changed me from my roots of NASCAR to Road racing and Rally. I have never felt disappointed with PD as i do now for granted i still love playing it. It just really makes me hate the game at the same time.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Taken from the list of power laps on the top gear test track

Subaru WRX Sti 1.28.2
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22

There is a faster EVO on there but these were tested head to head I think.

 

[Leonidae]

I feel that STi is easier and faster to drive because it reacts to weight shifting better than Evo. Evos have too much traction and they feel like they would have higher grade tires in the rear. Evo X pulls away on the straight when both cars are stock thanks to DCT, but corners belong to STi and that's where it beats Evo at least in my hands.

 

[doozle]

On Top Gear the new Subaru out performed the X. It's also said by magazines that the the Evo X is no where near as fast or mad as the IX

 

[niky]

What modes are we talking about here? Standard Physics or Pro? On the current Spec III, in Pro-physics, from the current online leaderboard, the STi is only a scant tenth or two faster than the EVO X on Eiger (I don't look at other tracks much...) and that's Time Trial, stock to stock. Stands to reason, at the same PP (EVO X has a lower PP), the EVO X would be faster. The only time I find it losing much ground to the STi is in the uphill climb, where the STi's better torque and lighter curb weight are felt.

If the car can be within a few tenths of the STi (the leaderboard is a tenth down at first place and about 3/10ths down at 100th place) as stock, when balanced up with PP points, it should be superior.

As to why the EVO IX is slow... I don't know... at least the grip modelling isn't as bad as in GT4, where the EVO's extra rear end grip prevented you from even performing the simplest cornering material except with the skinny tired "stripper" EVO.

Also, take note... the EVO X in GT5P is the Dual Clutch one... which is a few tenths slower than the manual version, which might be just as quick as the STi.

I suppose, in Standard Physics, which allows you to take ridiculous liberties with powersliding lines through the corners, the extra weight transfer and ease of break-away provided by the STi's much softer suspension could be an advantage. But in Pro, they're pretty evenly matched.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Taken from the list of power laps on the top gear test track

Subaru WRX Sti 1.28.2
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22

There is a faster EVO on there but these were tested head to head I think.

That's because the evo had the sst which is why it was slow off the line, if it had the manual like the sti had it would have beat it.

 

[balang_479]

In stock form and in real life the new STi is faster than any of them... then comes the slightly older STi then the IX Evo and then the X Evo.... Best Motoring car show has done many test with these cars as you can imagine and that is how it is. The Evo VII was one of the fastest...

look at these lap times: http://fastestlaps.com/track3.html
the new STi is in 31st place while the Evo X in 55th, the older Gens of Evo and STi are faster here but during as race the new STi is more consistent to drive fast.

If you look around that site youll see that the new Evo is slower in all tracks than its older version and the STis.... the new STi is faster on faster track due to its power advantage....

obviously this is in stock form.

Tuned the PP must simply be slightly unaccurate or not suit your driving style.

 

[gearbrain]

I personally have always gotten better more consistent results from the STi's.

 

[niky]

That's probably down to your driving style... the lack of low-end torque from the Evo (tuning PP will not change the power curve) requires you to be very accurate in shifts to make a quick getaway from corners.

 

[Leonidae]

I always drive with pro physics and I feel that the STi's are more reliable when entering a corner. I mean, if you mess up, you can lift off and tuck the nose in that way, whereas Evo will just keep going there it is going like freight train. Evo X is faster than the IX in my hands since it has a hint of weight-shift when braking into corner. otherwise, rear-biased AWD of the STi always will take the win in my books.

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

I would kinda of like to know you setup for your EVO X that is only .02 slower then the STI. I know in real life the X is slower then the IX but I just get blown away on the straights with the IX and in the turns i thought we where about equal but i was running against guys that where running almost 2sec faster laps then me.

 

[RSwagoneer]

Deleted

 

[niky]

I'm talking about time trial leaderboards. That's all stock- S2s.

 

[Peter]

The Evo X should be faster or the same in about everything so u should check again.

 

[skingg]

In stock form and in real life the new STi is faster than any of them... then comes the slightly older STi then the IX Evo and then the X Evo.... Best Motoring car show has done many test with these cars as you can imagine and that is how it is. The Evo VII was one of the fastest...

look at these lap times: http://fastestlaps.com/track3.html
the new STi is in 31st place while the Evo X in 55th, the older Gens of Evo and STi are faster here but during as race the new STi is more consistent to drive fast.

If you look around that site youll see that the new Evo is slower in all tracks than its older version and the STis.... the new STi is faster on faster track due to its power advantage....

obviously this is in stock form.

Tuned the PP must simply be slightly unaccurate or not suit your driving style.

Its true, STI version 10 outperforms Evo X be it SST-Clutch or 5-Speed Manual and STI version IX Spec C and stock also outruns Evo IX MR and GSR respectively, not just on Tsukuba but on several tracks I've watched on Best Motoring.

 

[NLxAROSA]

To be honest I must agree with ryanVAMPIRATE.

Same here. It shouldn't matter which one is faster in real life (or at the default settings in GT5P), since the PP system is supposed to (somewhat) negate the differences in performance (ryan mentions 550PP in his opening post). But it doesn't, and there lies the real flaw. Cars having the same Performance Points level simply do not perform equally. Of course there should be differences in behavior; e.g. some cars will get their PP from high power, others from low weight, which will translate in higher straight line speed or cornering speeds. But right now some cars have a distinct advantage over others, even with the PP-limit applied. And I don't think anybody will complain about the PP-system resulting in being a few tenths off, but we're talking seconds here.

 

[Paulie]

Same here. It shouldn't matter which one is faster in real life (or at the default settings in GT5P), since the PP system is supposed to (somewhat) negate the differences in performance (ryan mentions 550PP in his opening post). But it doesn't, and there lies the real flaw. Cars having the same Performance Points level simply do not perform equally. Of course there should be differences in behavior; e.g. some cars will get their PP from high power, others from low weight, which will translate in higher straight line speed or cornering speeds. But right now some cars have a distinct advantage over others, even with the PP-limit applied. And I don't think anybody will complain about the PP-system resulting in being a few tenths off, but we're talking seconds here.

This is true also. You should be allowed to use any car eligble that you like and be within a second of the fastest cars.

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

Same here. It shouldn't matter which one is faster in real life (or at the default settings in GT5P), since the PP system is supposed to (somewhat) negate the differences in performance (ryan mentions 550PP in his opening post). But it doesn't, and there lies the real flaw. Cars having the same Performance Points level simply do not perform equally. Of course there should be differences in behavior; e.g. some cars will get their PP from high power, others from low weight, which will translate in higher straight line speed or cornering speeds. But right now some cars have a distinct advantage over others, even with the PP-limit applied. And I don't think anybody will complain about the PP-system resulting in being a few tenths off, but we're talking seconds here.

Yeah sorry if i was not making this the clear point of the statement. It is not really that i want to say one is better then another i know about the knew spec sti being faster then the new evo x i was manly concern about the PP system and how to 550pp cars have huge gaps in lap times.

 

[HUGHS1E]

In gt5p for some reason the evo hits a wall at 130mph which is the reason its not competitive, when I went out in an evo IX FQ340 at bedford it easily hit 140 down the back straight, even a fully tunned one on gt5 is slow top end, as for the sti spec c, a fast track version from what i see will own a standard <300bhp evo IX, X.

PD give me a 550pp any class race an a DC5 will own the evo, we need a manual old an new FQ400 and a VI extreme if you want them competitive,

 

[ASH32]

The guys that say the pp balance is not correct are certainly right, how can you have a system, that is supposed to even cars out at a similar level, allow certain cars to be a few seconds a lap quicker at the same pp, it needs looking at PD. The whole point of the pp system is to even things out, but it does not really change the balance at all and if it isn't fixed it may aswell not be in the game. I sure hope it is a lot better in GT5, it would be a good system, if it actually worked that is.

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

Just wondering I have never played forza 2 online just with some friends that have Xbox360 and i feel like there PP system is pretty good. My friend and i could pick cars with close ratings and it was always an intense race. So i have faith that it will be better in GT5 then GT5P but i hope they can get it as close as Forza 2 if not better. Like i said i never really played it online just arcade with untuned cars so i am not sure how the PP system in Forza 2 differs once you start using Tuned cars. I am impatiently waiting for GT5 and hope that it makes me feel they have made enough good changes to keep the franchise where it has been for so many years.

 

[RAVELLRON]

i agree, i have an evo 9 and i'm in a mitsubishi forum... the evo X is the slowest..ò

 

[Leonidae]

Then there's the simple fact that because STi is more oversteer prone, it's easier to drive fast and throw into corners in slight slide. Evo's seem to cling to the tarmac with all their might which makes me feel that it doesn't turn enough and I back off the throttle.. whioch doesn't change the cornering attitude at all.

 

[niky]

Probably more of a handicap in Standard... to me, personally, it feels like the Integra, where the STi feels like the Focus. The STi feels more roly-poly, but easier to kick around, the Evo reluctant to loosen up but easy to point at the apex. That precision counts for a lot in terms of speed...

The really big issue, as HUGHS1E pointed out, is that the Evo X seems to hit an brick wall at high speeds... no matter how much power you put in. Otherwise, it'd be faster than the STi. In time trial mode, the top Evo X time (on the leaderboard) for the shortest circuit, Suzukua East, is actually [b ]faster[/b] than the STi. On Eiger, it's a mere tenth behind, and those, I believe, from watching replays, are because the Evo X doesn't have the torque to pull up the mountain.

It's a strange car, and it may be down to the unit PD tested for in-game modelling being a TC-SST. A manual unit should be better. Maybe not faster, stock-to-stock, but at least good enough so that it'll match up on all tracks when PP balanced.

As an aside, has any one actually tried time-trialling the Evo X against the STi with the PP balanced? Use Free race mode so you can fiddle with PP. Because saying you can't keep up with an STi user when using the Evo might be down to driver skill rather than the car itself.

 

[BonzoHarry]

Cars having the same Performance Points level simply do not perform equally.

yea I took my cappicino /tuned (like 710pp) to 750 suzuka earlier and i finished in 12th place, running like 2'10 a lap, then I took an sti there with like 670pp and I ran a 1'59.

The PP system really needs to be balanced out.