Why the barriers?

5,351
United States
United States
kudos00
This actually applies to more than a few decisions made in the GT6 world.

Why does Death Valley have the walled off barrier-like type edges that it has? Not even an option, PD? What's up with this interfering with not having a runoff area? And please bring back Tokyo Bay
 
I've always hated the invisible barriers in the GT series, it's too much an arcade thing for my liking. My only consolation in this regard is that I'm not playing GT at the moment.
 
In regards to the track creator, the driveable parts of the track are like hot wheels, there made in sections with only a certain width that can be driven on. With tracks make by PD, barriers don't have to be placed immediately around the course if they choose not, since they have control how the AI restrictions are mapped out.
 
I'm simply 'presenting' that there may be reasons as to why that track is limited to how it is.
I'm also 'presenting' that neither you nor I know those reasons.
To claim there 'is no excuse' is an unfounded fact.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Sure. be disappointed that that particular track doesn't allow you the freedom you would wish.
I don't deny you that privilege.
But don't claim there is no reason, unless you know what those reasons are.

And I doubt that there is 'no excuse' that those limitations exist.
Any limitations would be there for a reason, not just to simply 'annoy' people.
 
I'm simply 'presenting' that there may be reasons as to why that track is limited to how it is.
I'm also 'presenting' that neither you nor I know those reasons.
To claim there 'is no excuse' is an unfounded fact.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Sure. be disappointed that that particular track doesn't allow you the freedom you would wish.
I don't deny you that privilege.
But don't claim there is no reason, unless you know what those reasons are.

And I doubt that there is 'no excuse' that those limitations exist.
Any limitations would be there for a reason, not just to simply 'annoy' people.

What good reason do you see that PD did this then? I know it's not to piss of it fans obviously, but poor planning? maybe they were working on GT7? Why do we say there's no excuse? PD continues to release half-assed content and it is starting to annoy the consumer. I feel they didn't finish Death Valley the way they had originally planned to. That saying, they should have withheld it until it was fully finished. My gripe is, there is no excuse to release half-done content. Eifel itself was at least mostly done, and it has decent runoff. I cannot say the same about Death Valley.
 
To answer your question, I don't know.
But my point is, neither do you.

Poor planning due to GT7 .... IMO, almost without question, No.

"Why do we say 'no excuse'".
Please don't include me in that 'we' group.
Any company will please as many of their consumers as they can ... end of story.
They certainly won't make decisions to upset consumers for the fun of it.

You have every right to 'feel' they 'didn't finish Death Valley the way they had originally planned to'.
I'm simply suggesting it's highly unlikely.

Once again you claim there is "no excuse to release half-done content."
And once again, I suggest to you that it simply isn't the case.

No, I make no claim as to know why it is.
But I certainly refute your claim that there is a 'lazy' element behind those reasons.

I simply put to you that there are reasons as to why it was done.
 
Last edited:
Regardless of any putative 'reason', it's not at the quality you'd expect for a AAA title. Not even at the quality of the other themes. It sucks for racing because you can't even dip a toe off the edge - which would be OK if you could see some reason for it, but there's none. No visible clues that it's there whatsoever. So never mind any reason, it's lazy in one way or another - either that the barrier should be further away (even just a few feet) or that more visible stuff should've been added in (rocks, whatever). Game making 101.
 
Regardless of any putative 'reason', it's not at the quality you'd expect for a AAA title. Not even at the quality of the other themes. It sucks for racing because you can't even dip a toe off the edge - which would be OK if you could see some reason for it, but there's none. No visible clues that it's there whatsoever. So never mind any reason, it's lazy in one way or another - either that the barrier should be further away (even just a few feet) or that more visible stuff should've been added in (rocks, whatever). Game making 101.
'Putative' ... you have an answer as to the reason?
I doubt you have.

How is it you people figure it could be done better, when the best sim. on PS3, and arguably comparable with sims. on this gen., don't even attempt it?
Are you not willing to accept they would if they could?
Or do you feel they could, but deliberately chose not to?
For what ever bizarre and twisted reason you come up with.
 
'Putative' ... you have an answer as to the reason?
I doubt you have.

How is it you people figure it could be done better, when the best sim. on PS3, and arguably comparable with sims. on this gen., don't even attempt it?
Are you not willing to accept they would if they could?
Or do you feel they could, but deliberately chose not to?
For what ever bizarre and twisted reason you come up with.

You're suggesting it's too difficult or impossible, that they could not find a work around after 5 or so years of development? What also rules out arcade racing games that do a better job, why is a sim different?

Regardless, PD have demonstrated many times before how they will happily lock away or restrict great features for seemingly no reason at all. Ability to adjust field of view, engine swaps, set up fully custom races, drivetrain swaps, apply turbos or superchargers (or both) to cars that don't have the option in game but have been done in real life... All worked perfectly fine but were not made available to us by PD.
 
You're suggesting it's too difficult or impossible, that they could not find a work around after 5 or so years of development? What also rules out arcade racing games that do a better job, why is a sim different?

Regardless, PD have demonstrated many times before how they will happily lock away or restrict great features for seemingly no reason at all. Ability to adjust field of view, engine swaps, set up fully custom races, drivetrain swaps, apply turbos or superchargers (or both) to cars that don't have the option in game but have been done in real life... All worked perfectly fine but were not made available to us by PD.
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort.
I responded to the post that suggested the track limitations were 'putative'.
That means it is 'accepted' or 'assumed' the reasoning behind the limitations, with no proof that the limitations were a collective conscience decision, and in no way due to other reasons.

I simply put forward that any reasoning in that claim isn't proof.
It's 'assumed'.

You make the claim, or do you, that it's too difficult or impossible?
And the time period is irrellevent.

If you seriously believe that a company would deliberately deny the wishes of consumers, for no reason than to upset consumers, you've read too many negative posts on this forum, and foolishly believed them.
 
'Putative' ... you have an answer as to the reason?
I doubt you have.

How is it you people figure it could be done better, when the best sim. on PS3, and arguably comparable with sims. on this gen., don't even attempt it?
Are you not willing to accept they would if they could?
Or do you feel they could, but deliberately chose not to?

You don't give a reason, just assume that there is one.
I gave two ways it could've been done better. Technically, neither would've been hard, basically artwork changes.
So yeah, I am saying they deliberately chose not to put the time into it.
After all, they were already well behind schedule!

For what ever bizarre and twisted reason you come up with.

k, bye :)
 
So let's hear it then.

Are PD too lazy?
Could have done better but simply didn't care?
Do they not know how to handle the processing power of a PS3?
Did they deliberatly not include functions to a certain track in spite?
Were they simply lazy, and didn't care about upsetting consumers?

Or maybe, just maybe, there were certain circumstances that didn't allow then to offer all they could with a certain TPE track?
Circumstances that neither you nor I know or understand?

Put your cards on the table.
Pick a bookie, any bookie.
I'm pretty sure I know who I'm putting my money with.
 
If you seriously believe that a company would deliberately deny the wishes of consumers, for no reason than to upset consumers, you've read too many negative posts on this forum, and foolishly believed them.

I don't believe they intentionally try to upset us, but they have shown they're not particularly concerned either numerous times before. Those negative posts also include genuine customers with perfectly reasonable complaints. See my previous post regarding field of view, fully custom races etc, things that were requested for years, were made and 100% functional, then locked away from us. Even after they were discovered and unlocked by modders, we still did not get these features in the next game. So yes, they are prepared to restrict our experience, fun and customization.

I'll bet my avatar for a month that the invisible barriers are a design choice and nothing to do with technical/programming/time issues.
 
I believe, when many complaints have been put forward regarding being 'lazy', let's go for Seasonal events, here's PD creating a new track, proof of interest in their consumers and their game.
Certainly not lazy.
Certainly shows 'concern' for consumers.

Negative posts are to be expected.
But certain negative posts are beyond reason.
Make a claim, provide proof.
(If I make a positive claim, I'm almost immediately asked for links as proof.)
Otherwise it's nothing more than as assumed claim.
I have every right to counter an assumed claim with assumed reasoning.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The only fact in this argument, is that no-one knows the truth.
Pushing assumed negative arguments as fact is bollocks, and considering the amount of negativity on these boards towards PD, I feel more than happy to push that argument towards the affirmative.

A change is as good as a holiday. :)
I'm tiring of the current negative mode on this forum.
Two can play this game.
So expect more of the same.
 
Last edited:
Some of PD's decisions do make me scratch my head. After using the garage editor in GT5 and discovering things like an easily alterable field of view it really makes me wonder why they would just lock away certain features when they appear to function perfectly well. I can't imagine why shuffle racing was left out of GT6 either for example. It's just an algorithm that randomly assigns cars of a given PP level to everyone in the race. It should have been a copy/paste type of deal or at least with very little tweaking necessary because the PP system was virtually unchanged between games. They may have a valid reason for throwing up the barriers related to hardware and/or software, but it might also be along the lines of shuffle racing, FOV or any number of features inexplicably dropped for GT6.
 
There's an obvious couple of reasons for the barriers on all the themes that I can think of.

Shortcuts, visual quality, driveability.


Remember when PD made driving on the infield at Ascari and Willow Springs like driving through treacle? Same motivation here, I'd bet; note that PD eventually put those infields back to normal and now rely on the shortcut detection instead, which we know is defined per track. That, combined with the fact those infields existed in the first place, implies that PD are not against free track limits, only shortcuts.
Adequately detecting and proportionately penalising shortcuts on the "track path editor" tracks is tricky compared with a fixed circuit. Maybe PD didn't think that development work was worth the considerable effort, and / or they thought that the "simple solution" (detecting off-track and penalising universally, e.g. treacle) was perhaps worse in some way.

The visual quality aspect is for the distant scenery. That tree or house in the distance looks OK from the track, but if you could break out of the track limits and investigate it, it wouldn't look so great. The underlying terrain texture is also low resolution, and would look terrible when being driven on. Queue hyperbole (but really, who cares?)

The driveability aspect is to do with the underlying terrain; it's low resolution, which would look and feel weird, possibly undriveable, plus it needs all the scenery and trackside decoration to have collision defined. This is extra work that PD perhaps decided they'd rather spend on FIA sanctioned circuits... perhaps, but probably not (tough). Regardless, they still had their own priorities when dividing content creation effort.



Why are the "barriers" so close on Death Valley? Because, I suspect, the decoration is defined as the barrier on all themes, and the decoration is much closer to the track at Death Valley, by (aesthetic) design. To push the barriers back on this one theme over the others would mean to give the decoration complex collision geometry (simple boxes would be infuriating here), something which wasn't necessary on the ones lined with Armco. Either that or just move the decoration back and lose the aesthetic effect (that might well be something PD could investigate). I hope PD decide the track files can be made larger, to store extra info like track width, barrier distance etc. per section without sacrificing length or the 20 track upload limit. They could use the moon mission barriers for the extents of the terrain, but with a kind of damped springiness instead of a hard stop or annoying reset.



If it were me, I'd have not cared about the low res background, I'd have bounded the scenery items with a simple box for collision and not cared about their visual fidelity, I'd have used a simple (crude), but optional, universal shortcut detection method, I'd have made the barriers an optional part of the decoration step (no barriers, no decoration, though). I'd have used the resources to the detriment of other content, too. But then I wouldn't care about the people complaining about these things, either. :dopey:
 
There's an obvious couple of reasons for the barriers on all the themes that I can think of.

Shortcuts, visual quality, driveability.


Remember when PD made driving on the infield at Ascari and Willow Springs like driving through treacle? Same motivation here, I'd bet; note that PD eventually put those infields back to normal and now rely on the shortcut detection instead, which we know is defined per track. That, combined with the fact those infields existed in the first place, implies that PD are not against free track limits, only shortcuts.
Adequately detecting and proportionately penalising shortcuts on the "track path editor" tracks is tricky compared with a fixed circuit. Maybe PD didn't think that development work was worth the considerable effort, and / or they thought that the "simple solution" (detecting off-track and penalising universally, e.g. treacle) was perhaps worse in some way.

The visual quality aspect is for the distant scenery. That tree or house in the distance looks OK from the track, but if you could break out of the track limits and investigate it, it wouldn't look so great. The underlying terrain texture is also low resolution, and would look terrible when being driven on. Queue hyperbole (but really, who cares?)

The driveability aspect is to do with the underlying terrain; it's low resolution, which would look and feel weird, possibly undriveable, plus it needs all the scenery and trackside decoration to have collision defined. This is extra work that PD perhaps decided they'd rather spend on FIA sanctioned circuits... perhaps, but probably not (tough). Regardless, they still had their own priorities when dividing content creation effort.



Why are the "barriers" so close on Death Valley? Because, I suspect, the decoration is defined as the barrier on all themes, and the decoration is much closer to the track at Death Valley, by (aesthetic) design. To push the barriers back on this one theme over the others would mean to give the decoration complex collision geometry (simple boxes would be infuriating here), something which wasn't necessary on the ones lined with Armco. Either that or just move the decoration back and lose the aesthetic effect (that might well be something PD could investigate). I hope PD decide the track files can be made larger, to store extra info like track width, barrier distance etc. per section without sacrificing length or the 20 track upload limit. They could use the moon mission barriers for the extents of the terrain, but with a kind of damped springiness instead of a hard stop or annoying reset.



If it were me, I'd have not cared about the low res background, I'd have bounded the scenery items with a simple box for collision and not cared about their visual fidelity, I'd have used a simple (crude), but optional, universal shortcut detection method, I'd have made the barriers an optional part of the decoration step (no barriers, no decoration, though). I'd have used the resources to the detriment of other content, too. But then I wouldn't care about the people complaining about these things, either. :dopey:
Well, guardrails would have sufficed, in place of the invisible barriers.

:) I wouldn't complain then.
 
I think they were trying to stay a little true to real world, so it would look a little unnatural to see the metal guardrails around a road in the middle of nowhere in the desert. So they went with the temporary barriers around corners and leaving the straights open. They have to keep the action on the track, so invisible barriers it is.
 
IZ7b.gif


Much less unnatural.
 
They should have bent reality a little bit from how it actually is and added a wider shoulder off each side of the road, maybe a few feet then added guardrails, tempting as it is seeing all the open terrain, the way the creator was designed you never be able to drive on it.
 
Back