Will we ever get to setup our cars?

[Diire]

I've played every GT, and love what they have done with GTS. As much as I was worried about the online aspect of the game, they've done (and continue to do) a great job.

But is there a really compelling reason why I can't, for example, soften the rear springs or go a little toe-in in daily races, to suit my driving?

It seems that this tuning is replaced by most everyone finding what car is, by default, best suited for the circuit, and running that.

And why still no Nxxx garage car races?

 

[Sean Renon]

When the game first came out, tuning was unlocked in daily races.
There was a little more car variety, but basically what it ended up becoming was which "alien" *cough* *cough* @MINKIHL ended up posting the best tune online and most of everyone would use that tune.

Then PD decided they wanted to level the playing field so each driver knew he/she was winning or losing based on racecraft more than tuning ability. I don't necessarily agree with this because I think tuning is a big part of racing and good tuners should be rewarded, but alas PD has gone the simpler way which will appeal more to a broader/younger audience.

 

[Winnie847]

I prefer no tuning in Dailies because it levels the playing field somewhat, and if I win or lose, I know it wasn't due to a better/worse tune. I am one of those guys who uses MINKIHL's tunes when not in locked lobbies, and even though I love them, I'd rather know that I'm beating somebody by my racecraft alone and I also don't want them (or me) to have any excuses for losing. Don't get me wrong, I used to feel the exact same way as you but the more invested I became in Sport Mode the more I realized the benefits and simplicity of no tuning allowed. I think it's made me better and more diverse since I have to deal with each car's specific characteristics instead of just trying to tune out the aspects I don't like or that don't fit my driving style. Also, not everybody has the time to tune, it takes a lot of trial and error and I'd simply rather spend that time racing when I do get the opportunity to. If I was a kid, or unemployed, or just had waaay more time, maybe I'd feel differently.

 

[MatskiMonk]

These are my opinions:

Tuning would skew BoP and PD's ability to implement it thereby increasing the performance gap between baseline cars.
It would penalise players that don't tune which would have an affect on general competitiveness and how people get to spend their time playing the game.
It would likely produce worse races by virtue of greater performance disparity.
It would reduce the general appeal of Sport mode and reduce the effective player base.

Having said that, I would be fine with separate tuner races. There is an important distinction to make between a race where everyone can tune, and one where everyone does tune.

 

[Lebowski]

"Will we ever get to set up our cars?" " Why still no Nxxx garage races" This forum is not run by PD, you do know that right?! These are questions along with countless other "when's, why's and what's" that no one outside of PD (who are renowned for being tight lipped) could possibly know!

 

[praiano63]

Tuning at least for GR1, 2 , 3 & 4 don't make you so much faster. A good tune will let you more comfortable at the wheel , making less mistakes and at the end able to finish a 10 laps race at a good regular pace.
Even if they don't allow downforce and suspension tuning , they have to open the LSD settings. A simple tweak will let you more confident out corner under acceleration, this would be already a great thing.

 

[Macboyilija]

This forum is not run by PD, you do know that right?!

Maybe someone here has info that tuning will be introduced when FIA season starts. Maybe someone knows that tuning will never be introduced and why. Maybe PD has expressed this earlier but not everyone follows all the news. This is a forum with a lot of info and knowledge so that question seems legit to me.

Based on that logic nothing should be asked here on GTP cause all questions should be adressed to PD ?

 

[Diire]

"Will we ever get to set up our cars?" " Why still no Nxxx garage races" This forum is not run by PD, you do know that right?! These are questions along with countless other "when's, why's and what's" that no one outside of PD (who are renowned for being tight lipped) could possibly know!

This is the most active, most knowledgeable GT forum that exists. Outside of PD itself, this is where the best answers will be found.

 

[Lebowski]

Im aware of that, but no one ever has had an answer to such a question. PD just do not offer up such long sighted information, its that simple.

 

[Diire]

I prefer no tuning in Dailies because it levels the playing field somewhat, and if I win or lose, I know it wasn't due to a better/worse tune. I am one of those guys who uses MINKIHL's tunes when not in locked lobbies, and even though I love them, I'd rather know that I'm beating somebody by my racecraft alone and I also don't want them (or me) to have any excuses for losing. Don't get me wrong, I used to feel the exact same way as you but the more invested I became in Sport Mode the more I realized the benefits and simplicity of no tuning allowed. I think it's made me better and more diverse since I have to deal with each car's specific characteristics instead of just trying to tune out the aspects I don't like or that don't fit my driving style. Also, not everybody has the time to tune, it takes a lot of trial and error and I'd simply rather spend that time racing when I do get the opportunity to. If I was a kid, or unemployed, or just had waaay more time, maybe I'd feel differently.

I understand your points, but there are tuning tweaks to balance that wouldn't impact any more than TC, torque split or brake balance sliders, LSD for one.

I also maintain for the "Group" races, a quick look at the top 10 times will show you what tuning set-up (ie which car's stock set-up) gets the best performance for the circuit, which shows that the balancing isn't that great to start with.

 

[ARTAsean]

The entire draw to GT Sport over more serious sims, such as iRacing, is accessibility. If you can't compete in a race without having to spend 10-30 minutes tuning your car, that's going to be a serious turn-off for players who just want to jump into races.

At absolute most, PD should make a "hardcore" Daily Race D, with tuning allowed and aids restricted, and perhaps even a SR/DR limit.

 

[brianloch]

My thought is tuning will make BOP virtually impossible, but should be fun if there is daily races with only a couple similar powered car with tuning allowed.

If tuning as allowed in daily races though, I think option to download tuning sheet from top 10 leaderboard will be helpful for lazy players (like me )

 

[Lazybike]

I hope they don't introduce tuning in sport mode, I want to sit down and race, not do some kind of weird maths lesson

 

[Macboyilija]

a quick look at the top 10 times will show you what tuning set-up (ie which car's stock set-up) gets the best performance for the circuit, which shows that the balancing isn't that great to start with.

Dont forget: most of the times they just follow eachother. Not that a specific time cannot be reached with a different car. So I dont really go for this theory, although I understand your point.

If tuning as allowed in daily races though, I think option to download tuning sheet from top 10 leaderboard will be helpful for lazy players (like me)

This would be exactly the same as not allowing tuning.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I have a pretty good handle on tuning but prefer it this way. It's more competitive and you spend less time faffing about and more tiem racing.

In saying that, I think there is room for a touch more than just brake balance and TC. I think if you added front and rear downforce and maybe roll bars it would be very easy for people to follow, even just the downforce TBH.

 

[iFerrari]

I have a pretty good handle on tuning but prefer it this way. It's more competitive and you spend less time faffing about and more tiem racing.

In saying that, I think there is room for a touch more than just brake balance and TC. I think if you added front and rear downforce and maybe roll bars it would be very easy for people to follow, even just the downforce TBH.

The ****tiest settings in stock setups are by far the LSDs and gearboxes, if they opened them up the game would be much more healthy imo.
It's fine for me if they want to keep mechanical grip for all cars the same, it could be also a way to avoid weird op settings in some cars

 

[cleanLX]

Tuning at least for GR1, 2 , 3 & 4 don't make you so much faster. A good tune will let you more comfortable at the wheel , making less mistakes and at the end able to finish a 10 laps race at a good regular pace.
Even if they don't allow downforce and suspension tuning , they have to open the LSD settings. A simple tweak will let you more confident out corner under acceleration, this would be already a great thing.

100%.
I'll concede that tuning may make a difficult to drive car ~several tenths a lap quicker(than PD's tune)... which will put it on pace with the "meta car for that specific track"... it will not make it a meta car... just competitive. On the other hand, tuning a meta car on the track that it is already meta on, is not going to gain much, it is not going to be the difference maker in a 10 lap race... on a 1 lap shootout, maybe, but not at race pace and taking alternate lines while battling/defending position... those few 10ths/100ths will be negated by decision making/racecraft.
Then, instead of seeing a grid dominated by "meta" you would see a nice mix.
I gravitate towards the 991 because it is setup perfect for my driving style (car is plain good as delivered by PD, and I think that is why you see so many)... but I can make the 458 (a seldom seen and delicate car) run just as predictable, thus nearly matching my times. Love the Aston, just needs some LSD love, Jag needs turn in... the list goes on... none of the cars are suddenly going to be "on rails"...
I've always said leave weight/hp/aero/ride-height to PD's BoP formula, allow us chassis, LSD and trans tuning... and, trans tuning is not going to suddenly give a car "more top speed", most do not hit the limiter now... they run out of power before they run out of revs... most...
Those that don't want to tune can run the "meta cars" (they will still be meta tuned or not), those that do want to tune, can spiffy up and run the "non-competitive" cars.

I understand the "no tuning" folks, and all the reasons for no tuning they present, but, to be fair, there are a bunch of folks that really geek out on the math/testing to make a car run predictably.

Reflecting...
Maybe in the shorter races, tuning should stay prohibited... as with tire wear being set to none, tuning would benefit silly castor/camber settings... in races with tire wear on, if you run exaggerated caster/camber settings you are going to be in the pits a bunch, or fighting the car after a couple laps... loosing time in either situation.

More reflection...
Maybe PD allows a tuning... but limits it to within 10% (or some random factor) of the PD tune, and limits final drive in the trans, but allows ratios revised... that way you can make little tweaks, and avoid ridiculous tunes that folks mention... and not gain any top end speed... while leaving weight/hp/aero/ride-height to PD's BoP formula intact...

Wishing...
I don't know.
But as a math/engineer/geek it seems a shame to not be able to use that skillset in a race when it is available both in the game, and utilized in the real world.

Reality...
I know, comparing to the real world is tough in game land...

 

[Sander 001]

If PD doesn't want tuning, whatever. But at least tune the cars better!

 

[NevilleNobody]

The ****tiest settings in stock setups are by far the LSDs and gearboxes, if they opened them up the game would be much more healthy imo.
It's fine for me if they want to keep mechanical grip for all cars the same, it could be also a way to avoid weird op settings in some cars

I agree that LSD would add a lot BUT it can be hard to follow, downforce is much simpler. Gearboxes are a nightmare, most folks have no idea how gearing works and bad gearing across the board is the same as good gearing ... it's the same for everyone.

A lot of what you guys want is available in lobbies.

 

[cleanLX]

Downforce is restricted in the real world (I know) LSD is not.
Bad gearing for everyone ... simply means some cars are rarely used... Cayman.

I get where you are coming from... but... tuning has the ability to broaden the field by bringing some crappy(be it noncompetitive, or unpredictable) cars to life, and provide variety.
I really think folks don't understand that with power/weight/downforce/ride-height being restricted, simple chassis tuning is not going to make a car meta... it's simply going to bring a a non meta to a competitive level... or provide an unpredictable car consistency.

The fast guys will still be fast, the meta cars will still be meta, the consistent and safe guys will now have an option of competing in something other than the meta, and, those who opt for meta all the time will still have the ability to choose the meta car.

I don't understand the fear of allowing the math/engineering/tinkering geeks to make noncompetitive and/or unpredictable cars have a level of consistency that allows them to compete with the best car for track X.

I know I'm fighting a loosing battle... but I say this...
I know there are people that are better tuners than I... I'm ok with that.
lets race.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I can understand both sides of the argument here. On one hand I’d love to have the option to tune my cars in Sport Mode, because there’s times where the default setup just doesn’t cut it depending on your choice of car.

On the other hand, I just don’t always have time for setting my car up and I just want to get into the racing. There’s also the fact that as previously mentioned, tuning would most definitely make balancing the performance of each car a lot more difficult.

Personally, I’d settle for on-the-fly anti-rollbar adjustments, akin to the Australian Supercars series. Rollbar setup wouldn’t be too overwhelming for beginners and can make a big difference in the handing of a car. It would also become very useful
in the Daily Race C and FIA events where tyre and fuel consumption comes into play.

 

[GWJP RACING]

In short the better drivers knew how to tune suspension, downforce, gear ratio etc and the rest just weren't as good so the the powers at be stopped tuning. Personally I'd like to see it back with BOP on of course.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

In short the better drivers knew how to tune suspension, downforce, gear ratio etc and the rest just weren't as good so the the powers at be stopped tuning. Personally I'd like to see it back with BOP on of course.

Uhm, no. You're completely wrong. Better tuners do not necessarily mean better drivers

 

[Spirit]

I believe setting up the car to maximize its potential is a fundamental racing skill, but I understand that not everyone has the time or will to learn how the intricacies work. I think having a set of races that do allow tuning and others that do not is the best solution to please everyone.

 

[Rinsky]

I

Downforce is restricted in the real world (I know) LSD is not.
Bad gearing for everyone ... simply means some cars are rarely used... Cayman.

I get where you are coming from... but... tuning has the ability to broaden the field by bringing some crappy(be it noncompetitive, or unpredictable) cars to life, and provide variety.
I really think folks don't understand that with power/weight/downforce/ride-height being restricted, simple chassis tuning is not going to make a car meta... it's simply going to bring a a non meta to a competitive level... or provide an unpredictable car consistency.

The fast guys will still be fast, the meta cars will still be meta, the consistent and safe guys will now have an option of competing in something other than the meta, and, those who opt for meta all the time will still have the ability to choose the meta car.

I don't understand the fear of allowing the math/engineering/tinkering geeks to make noncompetitive and/or unpredictable cars have a level of consistency that allows them to compete with the best car for track X.

I know I'm fighting a loosing battle... but I say this...
I know there are people that are better tuners than I... I'm ok with that.
lets race.

It's not the fear of tuning that I see as the problem. It's the amount of time that's involved in tuning. It simply takes a massive amount of time just to tune one car that is if your doing it right. By making one small adjustment at a time and testing that adjustment out. I feel sorry for all those people who make multiple adjustments at a time.

Repeat this process about a hundred times and you might have the car tuned just right for you and only you but again that's just one car for one track.

Going and getting other people's tunes if you do not know how yourself is not any better of a solution than we right have now with no tuning. Those people are still forced to run someone eles tune and right now that happens to be PD's and there is no one tune that works for everyone no matter who's it is.

I just don't see that many people wanting to take the many hours that's involved with tuning anymore especially now that Sport Mode has shown them you can have fun racing without the hassle of adjusting your car constantly.

And let's not forget like every other part of this game and past GT games that people will find a cheat or a way to exploit tuning to gain an advantage. This will ruin it for a lot of people just like it has every other time or force them to exploit the game themselves just to stay competitive.

 

[George Jakob]

This is a must because as i say in my review although i understand the view of those who say the current way is better because it makes the grid even, in reality it dosen't because we all have a different driving style so some drivers may adapt to the given setup etc etc. As a reault most players select only a faw cars in group races (Especialy group 1 cough). its like the FIA said one day out of nowhere ok Mercedes is winning a lot in F1 so lets force them use a bad setup in order to lose like it or not tuning your car properly is one ability a driver should have in a racing game.

 

[Matty28]

If they ever allowed setups then anyone not part of a team that has great setups for every car/track on the game can wave goodbye to the competition. There's other sims that allow setups, as far as I know this is the only racing game I can hope to compete at the top level in. The only racing game that is purely about the racing rather than the engineering. Setups require hours of mindlessly boring & fiddly work on every car on every track to have a chance. It surely must be a minority of people who want to spend their time +1 degree of some suspension setting, doing 10 laps, + 1 degree rinse repeat all day for a weeks. Perhaps a 3rd "FIA Engineers Championship" or something but otherwise - all I can say is NO GOD PLEASE NO.

 

[praiano63]

If they ever allowed setups then anyone not part of a team that has great setups for every car/track on the game can wave goodbye to the competition. There's other sims that allow setups, as far as I know this is the only racing game I can hope to compete at the top level in. The only racing game that is purely about the racing rather than the engineering. Setups require hours of mindlessly boring & fiddly work on every car on every track to have a chance. It surely must be a minority of people who want to spend their time +1 degree of some suspension setting, doing 10 laps, + 1 degree rinse repeat all day for a weeks. Perhaps a 3rd "FIA Engineers Championship" or something but otherwise - all I can say is NO GOD PLEASE NO.

I don't agree at all. Stock tunes are not fairs because for the elite only in my opinion. Stock LSD is very difficult to control , only very good drivers can explore those stock values 100% during a 10 laps race for example. Myself and a lot of tuners are publishing a lot of settings for everybody . The goal is not the performance only but to let the car easy to drive fast for everybody have fun finishing their races without major problems.

 

[golfer07840]

I am not going to get into the real technical aspects of this conversation. I am not a mechanic or an engineer. I just know when I drive a car, if I like it or dojtm and I know why.

I'm cool with the BOP, it gives someone like myself a chance. Granted, because of this game, my interest in tuning cars has grown, so that's a good thing.

My only complaint about the cars in Sports mode, since I'm a simpleton, as I mentioned above, is the tire settings.

If you're going to do a group 3 race and let me drive the Audi R8 LMS, can I PLEASE use the sports soft tires??

 

[mthomas_95]

Stock tunes are not fairs because for the elite

So what you're saying is that the stock setups allow the best drivers to shine more? Sounds like exactly what PD are looking for tbh. With the cars fairly balanced as they are now, there is definitely a car to suit each driving style and still be competitive.

If you're going to do a group 3 race and let me drive the Audi R8 LMS, can I PLEASE use the sports soft tires??

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you mean Racing Softs. Even then why? The way the FIA and Daily Race C tyre wear works you'd have zero grip on the softs barely 10% into the race