wow this is a lousy game for wheels.

[reaperman]

When I was using the controller, I liked--maybe even loved--NFS shift. But then I got to liking it just a little too much to keep the g25 in the box.

now it's pure ass.

I've tried tinkering with settings per a couple threads on this forum (which I shouldn't have to do) and the best I can do is 'generally stay on the track but can hardly pass anybody'. The force feedback is *SO* bad that I wish I had a damn spring wheel with a vibration motor, but even that would be silly, since a controller is really the only way to win at this game.

not only that, the g25 has like 360 degrees of pure slack, I only seem to get force feedback in one direction at a time, hell the game has trouble even recognizing the wheel half the time, and it frequently freezes when I do things like so much as view the control-to-wheel mapping...forcing me to reboot.

who the hell pumps their game as a sim for 6 months and doesn't support wheels for beans? I'm not seeing too many people with as many complaints as I have, just general 'I wish the wheel was a bit better' posts. Am I the only person having cripplingly severe feedback/wheel problems?

 

[x-THE_FREAK-X]

i tryed the game whit a weel cant remember the name but logitec somting whit gas and break in the handel hope you understand
i had no problem whit the feed back ore eny things just that it was harder to control the cars but that is just a traning / getting use to it.

 

[SteveO1965]

I had a good few races online recently with Mr V, now Mr V uses a wheel and me a pad, on GTP5 i have not a hope of staying with him but in the races we raced on Shift we were barely a second apart with both having our fair share of wins.

What i am saying is the wheel as no advantage over the pad in Shift.

 

[Imari]

I find the force feedback to be quite good, but it takes some getting used to. In most racing games the FF seems to be largely based on grip, but in Shift I find it to be more based on the weight transfer of the car.

I also found it very difficult to start with, but now that I'm used to it I like it a lot. It is true that the default setting are bloody awful though.

The standard wheel settings are bad, but the most important things are to:
1. Turn the wheel lock down to at least 540, or 360 if you can (360 is very twitchy so it might be frustrating to start with). I know this seems dumb on a 900 degree wheel, but it helps a lot.
2. Speed Steering Sensitivity should be low, under 30 at least and the closer to 0 the better.
3. Turn all the deadzones to zero or one.
4. Set Steering Sensitivity really high, 90 or 100.

That should give you something usable if you're used to using a wheel in GT5P. If you're having trouble with the FF being too strong and knocking you off your lines (which it did to me), try setting the FF strength to about 4 or 5 and slowly work it up higher as you learn the FF system and how to counter steer against it.

Apologies if this is making a big assumption, but you mentioned taking your wheel out of the box. If this is your first time playing with a wheel, you're going to be a LOT slower than with a pad. It's going to take you several weeks before you can approach the times that you can get with a pad. On the plus side, driving is a lot more fun with a wheel when you get used to it.

 

[in.s@ne]

I found the FF to be quite nice on PC... it didn't feel that far removed from most games I played (I used the default settings on my Momo though, not a G25)

 

[Biggles]

I haven't had any problems with my G25 & Shift. The FFB is very good, (a little "bouncy" because of the somewhat exaggerated bumps modelled in the tracks), much more interesting than the very precise, but weak & un-descriptive FFB in GT5P. With the G25 there is a bit of a vague "dead-zone" in the centre - with the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel there is no dead-zone.

So, no complaints about the FFB in Shift, just the underlying physics ...

 

[jake703]

I actually played a lot better with the g25 than the controller, and this was my first time using a wheel. I set it up similar to the recommendations above, turned the force feedback down to like 6, and I find it to feel completely second nature.

I will add the disclaimer that I am so in love with my entry level cars and tuning them that I keep racing with those trying to improve my times (a scion and a 350z). It is quite possible when I actually use some of my money and buy the powerhouse cars I will find it pretty rough.

 

[RacerPaul]

no problems in Shift (PS3) with my bog-basic Driving Force EX wheel 👍

 

[reaperman]

well I'm doing 'better' with the g25, but it's still not right. The biggest difference was quicktuning my cars to 'oversteer' which I had read before, but didn't believe actually corrected much of the horrid oversteer.

The wheel still doesn't have enough centering force (or any) for 180 degrees in each direction.
The only useful communication it provides me is when I put a wheel over a trackside obstacle or dip a tire or two off the track.
and it still feels like it's only pushing the wheel against me in one direction, waiting a moment for me to start turning the wheel back before it goes in the other direction.
I just don't get it.

I'd say it was like boat racing, but there's no way it's that good. I think the feedback provided by the controller rumbler is actually *better* than the g25 gives me.

 

[WolfRacer543]

On PC its not too bad. You have to set the wheel rotation to something along the lines of 450 degrees or less. If you can't set the wheel rotation to that, try going into the advanced tuning and setting the steering to "fast" as far as it goes. This sets how much the wheels move with a given input. Fast = you wheels move more for the same input, which is better for high rotation angles.

Then make sure speed sensitive steering is 0 and steering sensitivity is 50 with 0 dead zone.

The G25 is far better than using a keyboard. The game, for me, is easier on "pro" with a wheel than "medium" with a keyboard.

 

[MannyMoenjack]

well I'm doing 'better' with the g25, but it's still not right. The biggest difference was quicktuning my cars to 'oversteer' which I had read before, but didn't believe actually corrected much of the horrid oversteer.

The wheel still doesn't have enough centering force (or any) for 180 degrees in each direction.
The only useful communication it provides me is when I put a wheel over a trackside obstacle or dip a tire or two off the track.
and it still feels like it's only pushing the wheel against me in one direction, waiting a moment for me to start turning the wheel back before it goes in the other direction.
I just don't get it.

I'd say it was like boat racing, but there's no way it's that good. I think the feedback provided by the controller rumbler is actually *better* than the g25 gives me.

What settings are you using? It almost sounds like you have the rotation set to 900 degrees which I found to be too much even with Steering Sensitivity set to 100%.

My G25 has a slight vague feeling on center too, but it's not nearly as bad as you describe and I barely notice it. If I could afford it (and find one), I'd get the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel that Biggles uses, but the G25 works well enough for me.

 

[Biggles]

I use 900 degrees - makes the steering more vague but with less than that, it just doesn't feel realistic to me. I've barely used the Fanatec so far, but when I did with Shift it felt really good.

 

[MannyMoenjack]

I use 900 degrees - makes the steering more vague but with less than that, it just doesn't feel realistic to me. I've barely used the Fanatec so far, but when I did with Shift it felt really good.

What is your sensitivity set to?

Granted, when you use all 900 deg. you are making the most of your wheels' sensitivity, but I found myself going wide into corners when I had it set that high. The Teir 3 and up cars are just moving too fast and with no depth perception to help me judge, it made it impossible for me to get the corners right.

I'm using 720 degrees for most tracks, but 90 - 100% steering sensitivity and a middle setting on Steering Lock in Advanced Tuning. When I combine this with a 30 - 40% on Speed Sensitive Steering it makes for a car that's not "twitchy" and nervous at speed, but can easily be cranked around tight tracks like Autopolis Lakeside.

 

[Biggles]

What is your sensitivity set to?

Granted, when you use all 900 deg. you are making the most of your wheels' sensitivity, but I found myself going wide into corners when I had it set that high. The Teir 3 and up cars are just moving too fast and with no depth perception to help me judge, it made it impossible for me to get the corners right.

I'm using 720 degrees for most tracks, but 90 - 100% steering sensitivity and a middle setting on Steering Lock in Advanced Tuning. When I combine this with a 30 - 40% on Speed Sensitive Steering it makes for a car that's not "twitchy" and nervous at speed, but can easily be cranked around tight tracks like Autopolis Lakeside.

Correction: I was pretty sure I initially set my steering lock for 900 deg. but I just screwed up all my setting accidentally & had to go back & reset everything, & now 900 deg. seems completely wrong, so maybe I didn't have at 900 deg. before.

I've been playing around with different settings but I'm not certain about the exact effects. At the minute I've settled on 540 for Steering Lock, 30% Steering Sensitivity, 0% Speed Sensitive. I think high Steering Sensitivity makes for the most unrealistic feel as it initiates extreme oversteer. I also think that once you have adjusted to this it might make it possible to drive the car faster, because, as with a pad, it allows very sudden changes to steering inputs - not realistic but possible faster. Personally, I'm more interested in having it feel "realistic" than in making it fast.

One thing I've noticed is that it doesn't seem possible to set the steering, so that what you do with the wheel corresponds to what the on-screen wheel does.

Hmm ... just went & read the wheel settings thread: there seem to be wildly different opinions about the best set-up, which is not very helpful! I was quite happy with my previous settings, but accidentally reset to default & have no idea what they were originally set at.

All in all, the settings are a bit confusing.

 

[MannyMoenjack]

I think high Steering Sensitivity makes for the most unrealistic feel as it initiates extreme oversteer.

That would be true if there were no adjustment for Speed Steering Sensitivity.

Simply put, this progressively cuts down your steering sensitivity the faster you go.

In practical terms it means that you don't have to crank the wheel around a full rotation to go through a 40mph hairpin. And at the same time prevents small wheel adjustments from breaking the rear-end loose when traveling along at 180mph. That smooth turn-in at speed is what has improved my lap times. Those nervous, darty, instant-response steering settings just make me crash!

I'm sure it sounds like it would be intrusive and unpredictable, but at 30% it's completely transparent. I don't even notice it, and more importantly it doesn't seem unnatural or unrealistic.
Of course, like you saw in the other thread everybody has their own opinion on what "feels" right to them.

 

[Biggles]

Ok, I put the Steering Lock on 900 & the Steering Sensitivity on 100% (this is how I originally had it set up, I think). Feels the same as Steering Lock on lower setting (270 - 540) & the Steering Sensitivity turned down! So IS there a difference between the Steering Lock & Steering Sensitivity?!

I think it's "cheating" to use settings that make the driving unrealistic but faster - that would be the definition of "aracde". But who the hell knows how to set this game up so it's "realistic"?!!!

IS there any other game that has this many adjustable settings? How is it possible for the cars to correspond to their RL counterparts when you can adjust everything about the way they handle in the settings?

Fundamentally, the big problem with this game remains the "super-grip". As it is, as a "simulator", Shift is a 7/10. Fix the glitches & it's a 8/10, remove the super-grip & it's a 9/10.

 

[MannyMoenjack]

So IS there a difference between the Steering Lock & Steering Sensitivity?!

Absolutely... The Steering lock is a simple multiplier of the signal from the wheel. ie., the lower the steering lock number (below your wheels' inherent turn capability) the greater the multiplier. So, for instance a 900 degree wheel set to 300 degrees in Steering Lock would have the signal multiplier of 3. Or in other words the steering wheel max's out before the point you've reached the physical lock on the wheel...

The Steering Sensitivity is a mathematical curve applied to that signal. Either a positive curve or a negative curve depending on if you are above or below 50% (which is linear).

Then you have another mathematical curve applied to that signal in Speed Sensitive Steering. At the 100% setting it applies the maximum curve value... below that, it seems to multiply that max value with a fraction, decreasing it's effects.

Then just when you thought it was safe... they have Steering Lock in the Tuning section of each individual car. I actually like this because I don't want to steer the Veyron in the same way I steer the M3. So you can tune each car's steering and leave your wheel settings alone.

It's complicated I agree, but it does allow a huge range of settings to suit all types of drivers. What they should have done was included more info about setting up Steering Wheels in the instruction booklet! 💡

Oh and yes I think there are any number of ways to achieve roughly the same "feel" in the steering. High Steering Lock + High Sensitivity should equal Low Steering Lock and Low Sensitivity. However, when you set the Lock low (270 - 360) on a 900 degree wheel the game multiplies the signal and I felt like the input wasn't as smooth as setting SL up to 720.

 

[Biggles]

Absolutely... The Steering lock is a simple multiplier of the signal from the wheel. ie., the lower the steering lock number (below your wheels' inherent turn capability) the greater the multiplier. So, for instance a 900 degree wheel set to 300 degrees in Steering Lock would have the signal multiplier of 3. Or in other words the steering wheel max's out before the point you've reached the physical lock on the wheel...

The Steering Sensitivity is a mathematical curve applied to that signal. Either a positive curve or a negative curve depending on if you are above or below 50% (which is linear).

Then you have another mathematical curve applied to that signal in Speed Sensitive Steering. At the 100% setting it applies the maximum curve value... below that, it seems to multiply that max value with a fraction, decreasing it's effects.

Then just when you thought it was safe... they have Steering Lock in the Tuning section of each individual car. I actually like this because I don't want to steer the Veyron in the same way I steer the M3. So you can tune each car's steering and leave your wheel settings alone.

It's complicated I agree, but it does allow a huge range of settings to suit all types of drivers. What they should have done was included more info about setting up Steering Wheels in the instruction booklet!

Oh and yes I think there are any number of ways to achieve roughly the same "feel" in the steering. High Steering Lock + High Sensitivity should equal Low Steering Lock and Low Sensitivity. However, when you set the Lock low (270 - 360) on a 900 degree wheel the game multiplies the signal and I felt like the input wasn't as smooth as setting SL up to 720.

OK Perfesser, I'll take your word for it!

 

[MannyMoenjack]

OK Perfesser, I'll take your word for it!

Sorry... I'm an engineer. Force of habit...

 

[WolfRacer543]

Absolutely... The Steering lock is a simple multiplier of the signal from the wheel. ie., the lower the steering lock number (below your wheels' inherent turn capability) the greater the multiplier. So, for instance a 900 degree wheel set to 300 degrees in Steering Lock would have the signal multiplier of 3. Or in other words the steering wheel max's out before the point you've reached the physical lock on the wheel...

The Steering Sensitivity is a mathematical curve applied to that signal. Either a positive curve or a negative curve depending on if you are above or below 50% (which is linear).

Then you have another mathematical curve applied to that signal in Speed Sensitive Steering. At the 100% setting it applies the maximum curve value... below that, it seems to multiply that max value with a fraction, decreasing it's effects.

Then just when you thought it was safe... they have Steering Lock in the Tuning section of each individual car. I actually like this because I don't want to steer the Veyron in the same way I steer the M3. So you can tune each car's steering and leave your wheel settings alone.

It's complicated I agree, but it does allow a huge range of settings to suit all types of drivers. What they should have done was included more info about setting up Steering Wheels in the instruction booklet! 💡

Oh and yes I think there are any number of ways to achieve roughly the same "feel" in the steering. High Steering Lock + High Sensitivity should equal Low Steering Lock and Low Sensitivity. However, when you set the Lock low (270 - 360) on a 900 degree wheel the game multiplies the signal and I felt like the input wasn't as smooth as setting SL up to 720.

Wow you made that sound complicated, and I'm an Engineer too

1. Steering deadzone... pretty obvious, the deadzone in the centre of motion

2. Steering sensitivity... tells you how "linear" the steering is. 50% is linear (car wheel turns the same as you turn your wheel), below 50% the wheel initially turns slow relative to your wheel, then turns faster as you keep turning (meaning you have to turn the wheel more to get the same effect). Above 50% the wheel is initially more sensitive, but as you turn it more it becomes less sensitive, meaning you dont have to turn the wheel as much to get the same result.

3. Speed sensitive steering - Tells you how much the game reduces available steering as you go faster (unrealistic when using a wheel, but required when using a joystick or keyboard to keep the car controllable at speed).

4. Turning lock - Tells you how much of your steering wheel's lock is used (I believe thats what it does, I never use it, always have had it set to 100%, so correct me if I'm wrong).

5. Steering lock option in tuning - Tells you how far the car's wheels will turn. A low setting and the car's wheels might only turn 10 degrees like a ring racer. A middle setting is probably 15-20 degrees like most race cars, a high setting might be 25+ degrees like a street car.

I believe that's all the settings we have available to us.

 

[Biggles]

Wow you made that sound complicated, and I'm an Engineer too

1. Steering deadzone... pretty obvious, the deadzone in the centre of motion

2. Steering sensitivity... tells you how "linear" the steering is. 50% is linear (car wheel turns the same as you turn your wheel), below 50% the wheel initially turns slow relative to your wheel, then turns faster as you keep turning (meaning you have to turn the wheel more to get the same effect). Above 50% the wheel is initially more sensitive, but as you turn it more it becomes less sensitive, meaning you dont have to turn the wheel as much to get the same result.

3. Speed sensitive steering - Tells you how much the game reduces available steering as you go faster (unrealistic when using a wheel, but required when using a joystick or keyboard to keep the car controllable at speed).

4. Turning lock - Tells you how much of your steering wheel's lock is used (I believe thats what it does, I never use it, always have had it set to 100%, so correct me if I'm wrong).

5. Steering lock option in tuning - Tells you how far the car's wheels will turn. A low setting and the car's wheels might only turn 10 degrees like a ring racer. A middle setting is probably 15-20 degrees like most race cars, a high setting might be 25+ degrees like a street car.

I believe that's all the settings we have available to us.

Ah, I think I understand that better! As I understand it, with a wheel some of these setting variables shouldn't really be available. They might make more sense with a controller where you're really just creating an "equivalent" of driving. Ideally, the wheel should re-create the feel of the RL car.

I will say, that the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel is pretty nice with Shift although I'm still struggling with the shifter, after thousands of miles with the G25 shifter. I always seem to be faster off the line than other people online - I'm guessing it has something to do with using a clutch (although I haven't come across SteveO's missus yet!).

 

[SteveO1965]

ah, i think i understand that better! As i understand it, with a wheel some of these setting variables shouldn't really be available. They might make more sense with a controller where you're really just creating an "equivalent" of driving. Ideally, the wheel should re-create the feel of the rl car.

I will say, that the fanatec gt3 rs wheel is pretty nice with shift although i'm still struggling with the shifter, after thousands of miles with the g25 shifter. I always seem to be faster off the line than other people online - i'm guessing it has something to do with using a clutch (although i haven't come across steveo's missus yet!).

lol

 

[jimmywizz]

no problems in Shift (PS3) with my bog-basic Driving Force EX wheel 👍

Hi Paul, any chance you could post your settings for this wheel, as i have the same one. I'm finding it real fun to drive with. but if I set it up with 50% stearing sensitivaty and 50% speed stearing sensitivity (like is suggested somewere else by the developers, i think) i get this strange effect with the force feed back where it wont settle in the middle and wonts to turn side to side. so i'v set it to 30% stearing sensitivity and 100% speed stearing sensitivity, which seems to work well for me. so just wonderd what yours was at as most people seem to have the G25.