www.turns 30/needs an overhaul.

[Corsa]

According to it's creator, Tim Berners-Lee.
He says it has not turned out to be what he envisioned, and is bringing forward a "Contract for the Web"

The article is interesting but seems impossible as it suggests bringing together government, corporations and citizens into a global contract.

In his words he champions the citizen, but I'm not so sure I agree.
This sounds like potential for more censorship and regulation stepping on freedom of speech rights.

Nobody wants or likes hate speech, but who draws the line where hate begins and what's the punishment a lifetime internet ban?

No single person or entity owns the internet it belongs to all of us, what's your thoughts on this?

https://www.apnews.com/1a944fcf10c445f2a87fcd5c2d0320e5

 

[Keef]

No single person or entity owns the internet it belongs to all of us, what's your thoughts on this?

Unfortunately, the internet is a human construct and cannot exist without infrastructure which are also human constructs. The internet is not air or water. It doesn't just magically occur in a manner that cannot be controlled. Even basic access to the internet requires infrastructure which has to be owned by somebody, whether it's private or public.

That said, net neutrality and other "freedom" internet movements are good ideas because without some sort of treaty amongst internet entities there exists an enormous opportunity for exploitation. It may be an even bigger deal than tradition corporate monopolies and whatnot, because entities controlling internet access can not only control consumers' access to, say, toilet paper for example, but to knowledge. The other method would be to have the government control the internet but that's an equally terrible idea.

 

[Danoff]

According to it's creator, Tim Berners-Lee.
He says it has not turned out to be what he envisioned, and is bringing forward a "Contract for the Web"

The article is interesting but seems impossible as it suggests bringing together government, corporations and citizens into a global contract.

In his words he champions the citizen, but I'm not so sure I agree.
This sounds like potential for more censorship and regulation stepping on freedom of speech rights.

Nobody wants or likes hate speech, but who draws the line where hate begins and what's the punishment a lifetime internet ban?

No single person or entity owns the internet it belongs to all of us, what's your thoughts on this?

https://www.apnews.com/1a944fcf10c445f2a87fcd5c2d0320e5

I don't see anything that needs fixing.

 

[Corsa]

Unfortunately, the internet is a human construct and cannot exist without infrastructure which are also human constructs. The internet is not air or water. It doesn't just magically occur in a manner that cannot be controlled. Even basic access to the internet requires infrastructure which has to be owned by somebody, whether it's private or public.

That said, net neutrality and other "freedom" internet movements are good ideas because without some sort of treaty amongst internet entities there exists an enormous opportunity for exploitation. It may be an even bigger deal than tradition corporate monopolies and whatnot, because entities controlling internet access can not only control consumers' access to, say, toilet paper for example, but to knowledge. The other method would be to have the government control the internet but that's an equally terrible idea.

Well said and I understand all that, then the next logical question is who exactly "owns" the internet?

My ISP?

 

[Danoff]

Well said and I understand all that, then the next logical question is who exactly "owns" the internet?

My ISP?

That's like asking who owns the world. It depends on which part you're talking about.

 

[Corsa]

That's like asking who owns the world. It depends on which part you're talking about.

Exactly.

The point I was trying to make is after 30 years Tim Lee is wanting to create this global contract ah you know what it doen't matter.

 

[Danoff]

Exactly.

The point I was trying to make is after 30 years Tim Lee is wanting to create this global contract ah you know what it doen't matter.

Well it does. I think it's particularly scary when people talk about controlling, sanitizing, or otherwise censoring the internet. It is the free exchange of information, it should not be controlled.

 

[Keef]

Well said and I understand all that, then the next logical question is who exactly "owns" the internet?

My ISP?

You have to define the "internet". The internet is nothing but infrastructure connections and data which are generally all already owned by somebody.

 

[TexRex]

Purely out of curiosity, what occurrence 30 years ago is being cited as "the beginning"?

 

[Northstar]

I'll just post a slightly modified HGTTG quote and be on my way.

"In the beginning the Internet was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

Purely out of curiosity, what occurrence 30 years ago is being cited as "the beginning"?

I'm confused as well since there has been various forms of internet dating all the way back to the 60's. If we're talking internet in it's current form it still doesn't make sense as even though Tim originally put forth his idea in March '89 it didn't come to fruition until late-1990. So it's kind of like celebrating the day you were conceived as your birthday instead of the day you drew your first breath (which would be creepy).

 

[Danoff]

So it's kind of like celebrating the day you were conceived as your birthday instead of the day you drew your first breath (which would be creepy).

I mean... conception is actually when you start growing so... for developmental milestones, that's what matters.

 

[baldgye]

The internet is so ****ing ugly at the moment holy ****.

Go and try to read a actual proper news website, and see how much RAM that one tab will use, how long it’ll take to load and how many ad’s are on it making its actual content (the reason you went there) almost impossible to parce.

It’s pretty ****ed up just how awful using the internet is now, and that’s ignoring the tracking cookies and the plugins and the social media hooks...

 

[Danoff]

The internet is so ****ing ugly at the moment holy ****.

Go and try to read a actual proper news website, and see how much RAM that one tab will use, how long it’ll take to load and how many ad’s are on it making its actual content (the reason you went there) almost impossible to parce.

It’s pretty ****ed up just how awful using the internet is now, and that’s ignoring the tracking cookies and the plugins and the social media hooks...

That's how google got started, and why it remains so popular. Clean, fast-loading, no nonsense.

 

[TexRex]

I'm confused as well since there has been various forms of internet dating all the way back to the 60's. If we're talking internet in it's current form it still doesn't make sense as even though Tim originally put forth his idea in March '89 it didn't come to fruition until late-1990. So it's kind of like celebrating the day you were conceived as your birthday instead of the day you drew your first breath (which would be creepy).

He might have a better idea when this was, but I distinctly recall my brother telling me about his use of it on college campus not long after I started high school, and I have my own 30 year reunion coming up in just a couple months, so that would have been 1986 at the absolute latest...which is why the anniversary bumps for me. I don't think I "logged on" until 1992 or 1993.

Oh and...hey...thank you for getting me thinking about my own conception. I needed that.



...

 

[JockeP22]

The internet? Is that thing still around?

 

[BobK]

Thirty years ago Tim Berners-Lee developed what became known as the World Wide Web. This is what most people think of as "the internet". In fact the internet is much older than 30 years. I was active on the internet before 1989, in fact, mostly using something called "ftp".

 

[Adamgp]

The internet? Is that thing still around?

Oh, they have the internet on computers now.

 

[Dotini]

ARPANET was the network that became the basis for the Internet. Based on a concept first published in 1967, ARPANET was developed under the direction of the U.S. Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA). In 1969, the idea became a modest reality with the interconnection of four university computers.

 

[TexRex]

 

[wfooshee]

Purely out of curiosity, what occurrence 30 years ago is being cited as "the beginning"?

BobK touched on it, but the World Wide Web started with named sites addressed by a URL, and links in the documents that could carry you to other URLs. HTML, in other words.

The Internet existed way before that, and is really nothing but set of protocols that any network can translate their own protocols into, and thus communicate with other networks. Inter - net. Ta-dah!!! It was used to connect university systems together. Networks weren't always based on TCP/IP addresses. That's one of the protocols developed as a way to transport packets over the interconnected networks. Transport Control Protocol/Internet Protocol.

Early on, think of Internet as a hyphenated word: Inter-net.

URLs and HTML made accessing and locating stuff way the smack easier the something like searching filenames at an IP address that you had to know, using something like FTP. Going to a URL gave you a page you could think of as an index (The default name for the start page of a URL on a web server is still index.htm.) Words in the document presented could take you to other related information, thus the "web," and that information could be anywhere in the world that was connected to the inter-net, thus "world-wide."

To think of the difference between finding something useful out there without the web, think of how many times you dropped a file into a folder somewhere on your computer, then couldn't find it 6 days later because it didn't go to the folder you intended, you don't remember the folder's name, or you don't remember what you called the file. Now go find it. So multiply that storage space where you can drop stuff by... the world!

 

[TexRex]

BobK touched on it, but the World Wide Web started with named sites addressed by a URL, and links in the documents that could carry you to other URLs. HTML, in other words.

The Internet existed way before that, and is really nothing but set of protocols that any network can translate their own protocols into, and thus communicate with other networks. Inter - net. Ta-dah!!! It was used to connect university systems together. Networks weren't always based on TCP/IP addresses. That's one of the protocols developed as a way to transport packets over the interconnected networks. Transport Control Protocol/Internet Protocol.

Early on, think of Internet as a hyphenated word: Inter-net.

URLs and HTML made accessing and locating stuff way the smack easier the something like searching filenames at an IP address that you had to know, using something like FTP. Going to a URL gave you a page you could think of as an index (The default name for the start page of a URL on a web server is still index.htm.) Words in the document presented could take you to other related information, thus the "web," and that information could be anywhere in the world that was connected to the inter-net, thus "world-wide."

To think of the difference between finding something useful out there without the web, think of how many times you dropped a file into a folder somewhere on your computer, then couldn't find it 6 days later because it didn't go to the folder you intended, you don't remember the folder's name, or you don't remember what you called the file. Now go find it. So multiply that storage space where you can drop stuff by... the world!

So...cyber infrastructure. The land's there and you can cross it, but highways smooth it out and go so far as to manage some of the navigation by virtue of being a mostly unchanged path and even indicating when another path can be taken to get somewhere specific.

And that infrastructure is what's 30.

 

[Aphelion]

So...cyber infrastructure. The land's there and you can cross it, but highways smooth it out and go so far as to manage some of the navigation by virtue of being a mostly unchanged path and even indicating when another path can be taken to get somewhere specific.

And that infrastructure is what's 30.

Or, if all roads when to one specific place on the planet, and to get anywhere in the world you would need to first go to that one specific place and then follow the specific road that leads directly to, and only to, the one place that you wanted to go. That was what the internet was before the WWW. The WWW just adds all of the connecting roads.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well said and I understand all that, then the next logical question is who exactly "owns" the internet?

My ISP?

You should change the thread title to "WWW", that's what Berners-Lee is credited with developing. Internet and Web are often confused and the second doesn't exist without the first... but those of us who used internet more than 30 years ago definitely know the difference

Early on, think of Internet as a hyphenated word: Inter-net.

Or a portmanteau, which is what it is: internet.

 

[BobK]

Actually URLs aren't uniquely WWW either; ftp:// and gopher:// being two examples that come to mind.

Yes, I was actually on a couple gopher sites yesterday.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It'll never catch on.

 

[TenEightyOne]

 

[TexRex]

It'll never catch on.

This is just a passing phase...one of my bad days. Would you like to watch TV?

 

[Northstar]

This is just a passing phase...one of my bad days. Would you like to watch TV?

I think it's time you stop. *runs away*