Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[JDMKING13]

In all fairness we have gotten all that but after 6 years and a heavily implication we would get so much more.

And as for the standard cars looking better than in GT4, they definitely do, but a large part of that is just due to lighting (shiny covers a lot) and higher res. Try running the original GT4 in PCSX2 in higher res and you will see they look pretty much like what we are seeing as standard cars in GT5.

And your point? In the end It looks better than GT4 on my tv. Now the cars have damage (mechanical and visual) run on GT5 physics and can be driven on Premium tracks. For any true GT fan this is very good indeed. Not only that we still have 200+ preium cars to have fun with, with future DLC probably whats the Problem?

 

[kingcars]

And your point? In the end It looks better than GT4 on my tv.

Your TV must blow. GT4 models look just about the exact same on my TV in 1080i mode as they do in the GT5 standard video.

Like I've said a million times, the problem isn't necessarily with the cars themselves. It's with the way the game has been marketed. It's not a game with 1,000 cars if 800 of those have just been ported from a last-gen game. Do you not find it odd that they've waited all these years before showing us? Instead, every single video, picture, and demo (the TT demo, GT5P) has featured ONLY premium cars. Then all of a sudden, theyre like "Oh by the way, this is only representative of 20% of the game." Lolwat? No other racing game has had separate tiers of car model based on the detail.

 

[JDMKING13]

What a lousy argument. So because a game from '98 had less than 200 cars, that's somehow still the standard we should judge the current games at? GT5 better have more content than an original PS1 game from over a decade ago. It's also completely questionable when KY spouts off the first game being in development that long, seeing as how the PlayStation was a completely, completely different animal in '92.

I love how the people with blinkers on will continue to spin this as a positive thing. "Give us more"? No, rehashing all the GT4 models isn't giving us more. Repeated interviews after GTHD said that GT5 would not amount to it; that we'd be getting everything completely new, GTHD was only supposed to be an example of what upscaled GT4 models could look like with PS3's better lighting capability. Now, years later, we really are getting GTHD, with a roughly GT3-sized garage of Premium cars attached. At least GT3 only took 2 years. Not 6.

The only positive I can see with the Standard cars is there's absolutely no excuse for not putting at least 16 cars on track with them. That's it. I didn't wait this long to essentially play GT4.5 with prettier lighting and a walking simulator. I was told it'd be a brand new game.

As for the people who keep talking about there still being 5 months before release, and that they can work on this... you realize we are talking about PD, right? When has their work ethic ever resembled anything faster than an asthmatic slug? They said they were working on the HSV SuperGT car back in January. And they said that now. There's not a lot of time left to improve on the actual game when they keep making trailers for each new car that gets revealed at auto shows.

I'd be far less bothered about the standard/premium issue if we had signs they'd really sorted out the rest of the game. GT has become weaker with each sequel in the actual racing department, but if we have a solid offline foundation in place, and a solid online one, that counts for a lot. Seeing as how they're more concerned with flexing their rendering muscles instead of the actual features that can make or break this game, I'm forced to assume that graphics are still far and away the number one priority. Which is unfortunate.

 

[Luminis]

And your point? In the end It looks better than GT4 on my tv. Now the cars have damage (mechanical and visual) run on GT5 physics and can be driven on Premium tracks. For any true GT fan this is very good indeed. Not only that we still have 200+ preium cars to have fun with, with future DLC probably whats the Problem?

It might be good for a GT fan (and I think I've expressed my appreciation of what's been done with GT5 quite a few times), from a pure customer standpoint, being left in the dark about quite a big part of the game and its shortcomings for, well, years is quite a big 'no no' for me.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Your TV must blow. GT4 models look just about the exact same on my TV in 1080i mode as they do in the GT5 standard video.

Like I've said a million times, the problem isn't necessarily with the cars themselves. It's with the way the game has been marketed. It's not a game with 1,000 cars if 800 of those have just been ported from a last-gen game. Do you not find it odd that they've waited all these years before showing us? Instead, every single video, picture, and demo (the TT demo, GT5P) has featured ONLY premium cars. Then all of a sudden, theyre like "Oh by the way, this is only representative of 20% of the game." Lolwat? No other racing game has had separate tiers of car model based on the detail.

Absolutely agree!

 

[Dravonic]

...the problem isn't necessarily with the cars themselves. It's with the way the game has been marketed. It [is a game] with 1,000 cars [but] 800 of those have just been ported from a last-gen game. Do you not find it odd that they've waited all these years before showing us? Instead, every single video, picture, and demo (the TT [gamescon, E3, La Sarthe, etc] demo, GT5P) has featured ONLY premium cars. Then all of a sudden, they're like "Oh by the way, this is only representative of 20% of the game." LOLWAT?

And that sums it up really well.

 

[chepu]

And that sums it up really well.

Indeed, Sadly, In the General News Thread Im being Attacked By everyone, For posting that C5.R Image

People just need to accept they are getting A New Gran Turismo with 200 Cars, and its coming with GT4 in HD. Thats all.

And from my viewpoint, Its really good. Now that they have everything done, they can concentrate on Modelling more cars for GT6 and realeasing it in about 3 Years 👍

 

[kingcars]

I think it's pretty clear that the forum is split into 2 groups. Those of us who see it for exactly what it is: a 200 car game with GT Classic thrown in (which honestly, isnt a bad thing...the marketing has just been way too misleading), and those who prefer to stick their heads in the sand and tell themselves that the standard models are up to par with today's graphical standards.

Oh and, thanks for the slight editing, Drav! And might I add, from amar's thread:

More than 1000 cars, with many of cars being transferred from GT4.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

GT5

GT4

 

[Seismica]

People just need to accept they are getting A New Gran Turismo with 200 Cars, and its coming with GT4 in HD. Thats all.

What I find funny, is how people are only referring to the graphics with the standard cars.

We all know the physics in GT4 were... Mediocre in comparison to some of the best sims out there. But GT5 has a completely new physics engine. Each and every car from GT4 is going to feel completely different.

If you are a true enthusiast, you will drive each and every one of them. Just because they're a bit jagged on the edges, people seem to think they'll be the same to drive in GT5 as they were in GT4.

I do accept that, PD led us on. They always bigged up the premium cars, saying they had highly detailed interiors. But it wasn't until this year (I'm sure it was mentioned earlier than E3) that they said the standard cars would not have the interiors modelled at all. But wern't all the Forza crowd saying "graphics aren't everything"... And now the tables have turned they're saying how the graphics are really bad? Well, I don't mean to generalise. There are some on this forum who openly think that way.

 

[kingcars]

What I find funny, is how people are only referring to the graphics with the standard cars.

We all know the physics in GT4 were... Mediocre in comparison to some of the best sims out there. But GT5 has a completely new physics engine. Each and every car from GT4 is going to feel completely different.

If you are a true enthusiast, you will drive each and every one of them. Just because they're a bit jagged on the edges, people seem to think they'll be the same to drive in GT5 as they were in GT4.

I do accept that, PD led us on. They always bigged up the premium cars, saying they had highly detailed interiors. But it wasn't until this year (I'm sure it was mentioned earlier than E3) that they said the standard cars would not have the interiors modelled. But wern't all the Forza crowd saying "graphics aren't everything"... And now the tables have turned they're saying how the graphics are really bad? Well, I don't mean to generalise. There are some on this forum who openly think that way.

You bet that I'm going to drive whatever cars I want, regardless of whether they're standard or premium; I'm looking at GT5 as a new GT with 200 cars, and GT Classic thrown in as an extra, not minding their idiotic marketing campaign for it. I just hope that races can only consist of all standards or all premiums. A mixture of both would severely hamper the immersion of the game.

 

[JDMKING13]

Indeed, Sadly, In the General News Thread Im being Attacked By everyone, For posting that C5.R Image

People just need to accept they are getting A New Gran Turismo with 200 Cars, and its coming with GT4 in HD. Thats all.

And from my viewpoint, Its really good. Now that they have everything done, they can concentrate on Modelling more cars for GT6 and realeasing it in about 3 Years 👍

I have accepted that we have 1000 cars with 800 of them being standard with GT5 physics, the ability to be damage in glorified HD and also with 200+ premium car with state of the art graphics which i have seen no racing game match. Also GT5 has step up their features which i still believe kaz has more up his sleeve. I don't know how your getting on turismo your beloved Forza3 is the same game as Forza2 has the same cars with better graphics with cockpit and roll over thats it everything else is basically the same. Don't take that in a bad way Forza3 is fun but in the end its just an upgragded Forza2.

 

[chepu]

What I find funny, is how people are only referring to the graphics with the standard cars.

We all know the physics in GT4 were... Mediocre in comparison to some of the best sims out there. But GT5 has a completely new physics engine. Each and every car from GT4 is going to feel completely different.

If you are a true enthusiast, you will drive each and every one of them. Just because they're a bit jagged on the edges, people seem to think they'll be the same to drive in GT5 as they were in GT4.

I do accept that, PD led us on. They always bigged up the premium cars, saying they had highly detailed interiors. But it wasn't until this year (I'm sure it was mentioned earlier than E3) that they said the standard cars would not have the interiors modelled at all. But wern't all the Forza crowd saying "graphics aren't everything"... And now the tables have turned they're saying how the graphics are really bad? Well, I don't mean to generalise. There are some on this forum who openly think that way.

Nah, see it this Way, I never thought of them having bad Physics.

Its just that Im not going to Enjoy those cars like the premiums because the lack of a cockpit view, Complete damage, and Full Customization.

Of course im going to play with those, just that I feel Premiums are the real deal because they use all of the GT5 awesome Features.

as you can see, my main concern on those isnt the detail itself, Its what can you do with it.

I have accepted that we have 1000 cars with 800 of them being standard with GT5 physics, the ability to be damage in glorified HD and also with 200+ premium car with state of the art graphics which i have seen no racing game match. Also GT5 has step up their features which i still believe kaz has more up his sleeve. I don't know how your getting on turismo your beloved Forza3 is the same game as Forza2 has the same cars with better graphics with cockpit and roll over thats it everything else is basically the same. Don't take that in a bad way Forza3 is fun but in the end its just an upgragded Forza2.

First of all, Standard cars wont get Damaged like premiums, Sadly

Second, if thats with me, Lol I do not even own an X360

 

[Dravonic]

What I find funny, is how people are only referring to the graphics with the standard cars.

We all know the physics in GT4 were... Mediocre in comparison to some of the best sims out there. But GT5 has a completely new physics engine. Each and every car from GT4 is going to feel completely different.

If you are a true enthusiast, you will drive each and every one of them. Just because they're a bit jagged on the edges, people seem to think they'll be the same to drive in GT5 as they were in GT4.

I do accept that, PD led us on. They always bigged up the premium cars, saying they had highly detailed interiors. But it wasn't until this year (I'm sure it was mentioned earlier than E3) that they said the standard cars would not have the interiors modelled at all. But wern't all the Forza crowd saying "graphics aren't everything"... And now the tables have turned they're saying how the graphics are really bad? Well, I don't mean to generalise. There are some on this forum who openly think that way.

I really don't understand how can anyone tell other people to just get over the bad graphics. Graphics are of great importance in the GT franchise. They always were and that's a reason I love it so much.

Sure, aside from graphics and probably interior view, the cars are pretty much the same. But guess what, 80% of the cars are lacking in a fundamental area by PD standards not just mine or others in this forum. It's not just a stupid detail you get over, like skid marks and reverse lights that PD themselves never cared for.

 

[Seismica]

I really don't understand how can anyone tell other people to just get over the bad graphics. Graphics are of great importance in the GT franchise. They always were and that's a reason I love it so much.

Sure, aside from graphics and probably interior view, the cars are pretty much the same. But guess what, 80% of the cars are lacking in a fundamental area by PD standards not just mine or others in this forum. It's not just a stupid detail you get over, like skid marks and reverse lights that PD themselves never cared for.

And it will irritate you, and it will probably discourage you from using those cars in photomode. The lack of cockpit view will also disappoint.

But will you choose not to use the standard cars? Will the driving experience really be that bad due to the lack of a modelled cockpit view? (We can safely assume they will include the black outline from GTPSP, as someone on this forum said, it is better than nothing) Will the lack of a full damage model annoy you? The ps blog did say that standard cars will have 'dents'.

I'm trying to see the good in what is undeniably a bad situation for all us GT fans, who have been waiting years to get a hold of this game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

But wern't all the Forza crowd saying "graphics aren't everything"... And now the tables have turned they're saying how the graphics are really bad? Well, I don't mean to generalise. There are some on this forum who openly think that way.

I openly am opposed to the idea graphics are everything, but think this standard/premium thing is BS too. Why? Because for literally years PD has been misleading. Porting over assets from 2004 is lazy, and hardly the "Revolution" they keep suggesting this game is. They still look decent enough these days, but they're hardly the best, and given that car count and graphics were the only ways GT topped console racers, it's a bit worrying. Either model the right interiors for every car, or don't bother; it reeks of unfinishedness to resort to this two-tier system. The people who vehemently defended the game's delays on the basis of Kaz wanting to see his dream realized perfectly must[/b] be able to see this.

This wait has been far, far too long, but if the final game had shipped with all Premium cars, I'd at least see where the time went. The amount of genuinely new stuff we're getting is very, very disappointing for a game being in development for so long. Hell, if it would ship with 500 cars up to the standards of Premium, I'd be satisfied. But it won't be.

People who are championing the 1000+ car count also forget that this includes 20 Miatas, every single permutation of the GT-R from the R32 to present, and tons of nigh-identical RX-7's too. Or look at GTPSP and it's many duplicates (JDM vs US vs Euro models, even though they were all essentially identical). It's a lot of padding, so while it's more than games like Forza, it's also misleading.

 

[JDMKING13]

Nah, see it this Way, I never thought of them having bad Physics.

Its just that Im not going to Enjoy those cars like the premiums because the lack of a cockpit view, Complete damage, and Full Customization.

Of course im going to play with those, just that I feel Premiums are the real deal because they use all of the GT5 awesome Features.

as you can see, my main concern on those isnt the detail itself, Its what can you do with it.



First of all, Standard cars wont get Damaged like premiums, Sadly

Second, if thats with me, Lol I do not even own an X360

Hahah im sorry bro like i didnt mean anything about the forza3 to you personally

Premium cars Standard cars
Performance Damage ● ●
Dirt, Scratches, and Dents ● ●
Dislodging/Deformation of Body Panels● -

Only difference is Dislodging and Defromation of body Panels The most important which we didnt have in GT4 is performance damage

 

[Seismica]

I openly am opposed to the idea graphics are everything, but think this standard/premium thing is BS too. Why? Because for literally years PD has been misleading. Porting over assets from 2004 is lazy, and hardly the "Revolution" they keep suggesting this game is. They still look decent enough these days, but they're hardly the best, and given that car count and graphics were the only ways GT topped console racers, it's a bit worrying. Either model the right interiors for every car, or don't bother; it reeks of unfinishedness to resort to this two-tier system. The people who vehemently defended the game's delays on the basis of Kaz wanting to see his dream realized perfectly must be able to see this.

At that last part, I do. I constantly defended GT and PD against many critiscisms. But after this... The long development time is not justified. I don't care how long GTPSP took out of their time, even 4 years would have been too long for the game we are going to recieve.

 

[G.T.Ace]

At that last part, I do. I constantly defended GT and PD against many critiscisms. But after this... The long development time is not justified. I don't care how long GTPSP took out of their time, even 4 years would have been too long for the game we are going to recieve.

Well, as much as I hate that Standard Cars stuff, we don't know if the development time is justified or not. So far everything else is mind blowing.

 

[JDMKING13]

I openly am opposed to the idea graphics are everything, but think this standard/premium thing is BS too. Why? Because for literally years PD has been misleading. Porting over assets from 2004 is lazy, and hardly the "Revolution" they keep suggesting this game is. They still look decent enough these days, but they're hardly the best, and given that car count and graphics were the only ways GT topped console racers, it's a bit worrying. Either model the right interiors for every car, or don't bother; it reeks of unfinishedness to resort to this two-tier system. The people who vehemently defended the game's delays on the basis of Kaz wanting to see his dream realized perfectly must[/b] be able to see this.

This wait has been far, far too long, but if the final game had shipped with all Premium cars, I'd at least see where the time went. The amount of genuinely new stuff we're getting is very, very disappointing for a game being in development for so long. Hell, if it would ship with 500 cars up to the standards of Premium, I'd be satisfied. But it won't be.

People who are championing the 1000+ car count also forget that this includes 20 Miatas, every single permutation of the GT-R from the R32 to present, and tons of nigh-identical RX-7's too. Or look at GTPSP and it's many duplicates (JDM vs US vs Euro models, even though they were all essentially identical). It's a lot of padding, so while it's more than games like Forza, it's also misleading.

Seems to me all you care about is the car situation this can be fixed in the future, but damn Bro the man said he would of loved to make all those cars premium but we would never get the game Im sure they will releases DLC in the future so we can get that Premium car count up for you. With everything else we learned about GT is amazing night and day weather pit crew etc im so damn excited!!

 

[Slurm]

Since "Premium" cars are standard on Prologue, I think it would be much more logical to have "standard" and "sub-standard".

I was another who believed the wait was well worth it for what appeared to be coming. I'm not gonna be upset about it yet though, because we still haven't played the game and we still don't know about track editors or car customisation. It's possible that both these features will be godly and explain things, but I wait with skepticism.

 

[kingcars]

Hahah im sorry bro like i didnt mean anything about the forza3 to you personally

Premium cars Standard cars
Performance Damage ● ●
Dirt, Scratches, and Dents ● ●
Dislodging/Deformation of Body Panels● -

Only difference is Dislodging and Defromation of body Panels The most important which we didnt have in GT4 is performance damage

You're forgetting that Standard cars don't live up to today's graphical standards, they don't have any sort of interior that you can see while racing, no animated driver, and no cockpit view.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Since "Premium" cars are standard on Prologue, I think it would be much more logical to have "standard" and "sub-standard".

There's no such thing as premium and standard in Prologue and we have actually seen cars from Prologue as premium models (F430 for example).

 

[JDMKING13]

You're forgetting that Standard cars don't live up to today's graphical standards, they don't have any sort of interior that you can see while racing, no animated driver, and no cockpit view.

Standard cars don't live up to todays graphical standard You cant see the interior of cars while you play Forza3, How you know they don't have cockpit it has not been confirmed yet and we have many articles stating different. In the end we saw one little clip of standard cars in action we have no real information on them yet.

 

[kingcars]

[/B]

Standard cars don't live up to todays graphical standard You cant see the interior of cars while you play Forza3, How you know they don't have cockpit it has not been confirmed yet and we have many articles stating different. In the end we saw one little clip of standard cars in action we have no real information on them yet.

Sorry dude, Forza 3's cars still look more detailed than GT5 standard cars. NFS Shift's cars look much better as well, and do have interiors with animated drivers. Did you happen to miss this?

Exactly, and what brings me down, Really Makes me sad is those 800 Models wont be as Customizable as the other 200 because they dont have Interchangeable Parts...Sadly.

Oh and, as a Proof that those 800 Models are JUST GT4 Models:

GT5

GT4

...I dont know You guys, but I dont see Any Improvement on the Car itself

Nah, you probably ignored it, stuck your head in the sand, and told yourself that it's been remodeled since then. Sorry pal, no car model from a PS2 game, photomode or not, is up to today's graphical standards. And look at those horrendous textures on the GT5 shot . Forza 3's cars and NFS Shift's have way more 3D, modeled details. Many of the details on standard/GT4 cars are textured, such as panel gaps. Also note how the top of the front fender isn't very round, has squared edges on it. Cars in today's games shouldn't have that.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, as much as I hate that Standard Cars stuff, we don't know if the development time is justified or not. So far everything else is mind blowing.

Few companies can play the marketing spin game better than PD. When GT3 was about to be released, we were bombarded with stuff about weather. Then it turned out it meant one "wet" version of a track. We have no idea how far the weather and day/night cycles stretch yet. I do recognize that comment works both ways though; it might apply to very few tracks, or it might apply to every single one in the game. Though, because of PD's history, I'm a lot more likely to believe the former.

Seems to me all you care about is the car situation this can be fixed in the future, but damn Bro the man said he would of loved to make all those cars premium but we would never get the game Im sure they will releases DLC in the future so we can get that Premium car count up for you. With everything else we learned about GT is amazing night and day weather pit crew etc im so damn excited!!

Bro, then he came up with an excuse. Again, bro. Instead of modelling them to some stupidly high standard that after 6 years they have 200 to show for it, maybe they should've set the bar at a more reasonable level. Having all of the cars at, say, 80% of the detail level that the current Premium models have would be plenty fine, and we wouldn't be getting a game that is predominently a porting over of GT4. Having painted-on (texture) shutlines is hardly revolutionary in 2010, Brotato. The cars should have individually modelled body parts. Plenty of games did that back in the PS2 days. And hell, games have had dynamic weather, and day and night cycles, before. Sorry to upset the waves of your ocean, Broseidon, but KY has said he's against the idea of DLC for the finished GT5. I hope he's changed his mind, but on the other hand, we'd probably get an update 2 years later updating a few dozen cars to Premium status.

You're forgetting that Standard cars don't live up to today's graphical standards, they don't have any sort of interior that you can see while racing, no animated driver, and no cockpit view.

This. Kaz and PD (and these forums) have hyped up this game to, quite frankly, more of a level than it deserves. GT4 was a great game... in 2004. In 2010, getting a game that is predominantly recycled from half a decade ago is not segment-leading.

 

[JDMKING13]

Sorry dude, Forza 3's cars still look more detailed than GT5 standard cars. NFS Shift's cars look much better as well, and do have interiors with animated drivers. Did you happen to miss this?



Nah, you probably ignored it, stuck your head in the sand, and told yourself that it's been remodeled since then. Sorry pal, no car model from a PS2 game, photomode or not, is up to today's graphical standards. And look at those horrendous textures on the GT5 shot . Forza 3's cars and NFS Shift's have way more 3D, modeled details. Many of the details on standard/GT4 cars are textured, such as panel gaps. Also note how the top of the front fender isn't very round, has squared edges on it. Cars in today's games shouldn't have that.

A. where did i say that the cars where remodeled and i don't care what you say Forza3 is a upgraded version with better graphics of forza2 like you say about GT standard cars. Lets not compare a standard car to Forza3 lets compare a premium OK even if its only 200 of them that is the Real GT5 Those standard cars are just a bonus which i will enjoy.

@ SlipZtrEm In the end i will take GT5 200 premiums and feature list against any racing game 👍

 

[kingcars]

[/B]

i don't care what you say Forza3 is a upgraded version with better graphics of forza2 like you say about GT standard cars.

There's a big difference. Forza 2 was actually in THIS generation. Gran Turismo 4 was LAST generation. Biiiiiiiig difference.

You're right, the premium cars blow away anything out there right now. That's not the issue at hand, however. I'm also more than happy with 200 premiums, I'm just extremely displeased with the marketing and the release of information [or lack thereof].

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Using the Forza argument isn't exactly the point; I'm not bringing FM3 up, I'm talking about GT5 in isolation. Though the difference is that if FM3 did recycle stuff from its predecessor, oh well; they never said they wouldn't resort to that.

 

[Slurm]

Few companies can play the marketing spin game better than PD. When GT3 was about to be released, we were bombarded with stuff about weather. Then it turned out it meant one "wet" version of a track. We have no idea how far the weather and day/night cycles stretch yet. I do recognize that comment works both ways though; it might apply to very few tracks, or it might apply to every single one in the game. Though, because of PD's history, I'm a lot more likely to believe the former.

I strongly agree. I notice that instead of setting realistic boundries, PD tend to go berserk (especially when it comes to wow-factor graphics) and compromise things as a result. Introducing a mode where you can walk around and modelling plazas full of 3D people, red bull museums etc... Hardly a sensible road to go down when so many dashboards are missing, but wow does it make for good pre-launch PR visuals.