Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[kingcars]

Few companies can play the marketing spin game better than PD. When GT3 was about to be released, we were bombarded with stuff about weather. Then it turned out it meant one "wet" version of a track. We have no idea how far the weather and day/night cycles stretch yet. I do recognize that comment works both ways though; it might apply to very few tracks, or it might apply to every single one in the game. Though, because of PD's history, I'm a lot more likely to believe the former.

I also remembered being incredibly excited about being able to drive convertibles with the top down, with animated driver and full interiors in GT4. Only to find out that you can only do this in time trial mode. And cars that you couldn't put a roof on, you couldn't use in races, like the Caterham and Prowler. Lame.

 

[Tenacious D]

I love how the people with blinkers on will continue to spin this as a positive thing. "Give us more"? No, rehashing all the GT4 models isn't giving us more.

Well, I don't know about your garage, but mine's gonna be pretty full.

I know you Premium fiends are insistent, and I can sure understand that. If this happened in Forza, we'd all had a good laugh about it. It does seem very non-Master like.

But... wow, I think the Standard cars look just great. I chafed a bit at how small GT3 was compared to 2. I want a boatload of cars. I want to race those GT4 cars with the GT5 physics. I don't want another small GT. I even want all the tracks from past GT games in Standard definition too. I want those tracks as much as the cars. You guys can call me a fanboy all you want, guilty as charged.

And make note, you HD guys, you can probably play the game any way you want, including ignoring all Standard content, except possibly online. I'm sure GT Planet will be doing things with all the content.

And see, this is the difference. I can love the game, while some of you may be tempted to take a table saw to it because you feel personally insulted. You can be a bitter neener, or you can enjoy what you get, because nothing is going to be any different, no matter how many posts you make.

GT5 is going to be GT5, just like Forza, Shift and every other game is what it is, and wishing just can't make it otherwise.

I do accept that, PD led us on. They always bigged up the premium cars, saying they had highly detailed interiors. But it wasn't until this year (I'm sure it was mentioned earlier than E3) that they said the standard cars would not have the interiors modelled at all.

No, you forget how this all started at last year's TGS, when it was let slip out that there would be 200 Premium cars with fully modeled interiors and high detail car models, and then 800 Standard models in lesser detail. We argued over that for weeks and weeks, saying things like the interiors must not take damge, or the standard cars take damage at all.

People who are championing the 1000+ car count also forget that this includes 20 Miatas, every single permutation of the GT-R from the R32 to present, and tons of nigh-identical RX-7's too. Or look at GTPSP and it's many duplicates (JDM vs US vs Euro models, even though they were all essentially identical). It's a lot of padding, so while it's more than games like Forza, it's also misleading.

The car padding might total 100 models. That still leaves you 700 non-duplicates to complain about.

 

[brooster]

I just hope that there will be a way of playing the game with Only the Premium Cars.
I drive Only the Premium cars. All the other cars I see in the game are Premium Cars.
I hope that there will be areas in the online with Only Premium Cars.
200 Cars will have to do.

 

[Dravonic]

No, you forget how this all started at last year's TGS, when it was let slip out that there would be 200 Premium cars with fully modeled interiors and high detail car models, and then 800 Standard models in lesser detail. We argued over that for weeks and weeks, saying things like the interiors must not take damge, or the standard cars take damage at all.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that from two half lines of text regarding that matter, written in the poorest way, we should all already know we would be getting GT4 photo mode car models with no interiors?

 

[Devedander]

Since "Premium" cars are standard on Prologue, I think it would be much more logical to have "standard" and "sub-standard".

I think that is a good point... we all know naming makes a huge difference (remember when mcdonalds removed their "Small" option on drinks so their smallest drink size was regular? It was the same size, they just called a different name so you would think it was a better value) and they have done a smart thing with this whole ordeal.

What did we all really expect in GT5? What did we all "know" was coming? We expected 1000 cars that looked like every trailer and picture we had seen. THAT is the GT5 standard.

Remember all those rounds of smack talk about Froza's crappy looking cars? What was that compared against? GTP and expected GT5 graphics right? THAT is the GT5 standard.

Remember all those drool inducing pictures that would be fawned over like a rockstar surrounded by teenage girls? THAT is the GT5 standard.

Anything less than that should really be called "sub par".

Now look at it that way - Gt5 has 200 standard cars and 800 sub par cars.

Be truthful with yourself, that's really what it should be called. And when you say it that way it much more accurately fits the feeling of the situation.

[/B]even if its only 200 of them that is the Real GT5 Those standard cars are just a bonus which i will enjoy.

So the real GT5 only makes up 20% of the roster? So you are saying GT5 is 80% not real GT5?

Gotcha.

And make note, you HD guys, you can probably play the game any way you want, including ignoring all Standard content, except possibly online.

If GT mode consists solely of 200 premium cars, consider that a HUGE fail. Almost up there with no GT mode in GTPSP.

And what kind of a qualifier is "except possibly online". So it's ok becuase I can enjoy all of GT (assuming GT mode consists solely of 200 premium cars) except online races in the instance that the race uses one of the cars that makes up 80% of the game.

Ok sounds ace!

No, you forget how this all started at last year's TGS, when it was let slip out that there would be 200 Premium cars with fully modeled interiors and high detail car models, and then 800 Standard models in lesser detail. We argued over that for weeks and weeks, saying things like the interiors must not take damge, or the standard cars take damage at all.

I think it is you who has forgotten or only selectively remembered:

*models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5)

Nowhere does it say exterior detail will be different. In no interview was this mentioned, in no video was this shown, it was not even hinted at.

BTW that is called a lie of omission when you know for a fact how important such a thing will be.

 

[JDMKING13]

I think that is a good point... we all know naming makes a huge difference (remember when mcdonalds removed their "Small" option on drinks so their smallest drink size was regular? It was the same size, they just called a different name so you would think it was a better value) and they have done a smart thing with this whole ordeal.

What did we all really expect in GT5? What did we all "know" was coming? We expected 1000 cars that looked like every trailer and picture we had seen. THAT is the GT5 standard.

Anything less than that should really be called "sub par".

Now look at it that way - Gt5 has 200 standard cars and 800 sub par cars.

Be truthful with yourself, that's really what it should be called. And when you say it that way it much more accurately fits the feeling of the situation.



So the real GT5 only makes up 20% of the roster? So you are saying GT5 is 80% not real GT5?

Gotcha.



If GT mode consists solely of 200 premium cars, consider that a HUGE fail. Almost up there with no GT mode in GTPSP.

And what kind of a qualifier is "except possibly online". So it's ok becuase I can enjoy all of GT (assuming GT mode consists solely of 200 premium cars) except online races in the instance that the race uses one of the cars that makes up 80% of the game.

Ok sounds ace!



I think it is you who has forgotten or only selectively remembered:

*models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5)

Nowhere does it say exterior detail will be different. In no interview was this mentioned, in no video was this shown, it was not even hinted at.

BTW that is called a lie of omission when you know for a fact how important such a thing will be.

Bro you make me I see alot of your post around here complaing about GT5, however we have very little information about standard cars but have a lot of new great news about new features, however when i see you name in a threads its mostly negative input by you. I respect that though bro because you your entitled into your opinion. What makes me laugh is you try to turn what i say into something like im stupid and hating on GT5? I'm not around the forums with any negative attitude towards GT5.When thinking about PD's work(GT5) i am a very appreciative person, I'm not saying im a suck up, however I no how to be mature about a situation. Do you think Ky and his team didn't want to give us 1000 Premium cars? If you say yes then your not a GT fan. Seeing all this work this man did in development toward GT5 shows me that Kaz is all about Passion. So no i gotcha In the end bro you will be in line just like me waiting for your copy of GT5 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that from two half lines of text regarding that matter, written in the poorest way, we should all already know we would be getting GT4 photo mode car models with no interiors?

Well, maybe it was afterward in October, when we got a blip about it both on a website and from a couple of interviews. In fact, I believe it was Redsunnit who dug up the first interview and quoted Kaz mentioning that. And every month or so, Kaz would mention the "fully modeled cockpit" line and the discussion would fire up all over again. It may be earlier in this very thread.

Bro you make me I see alot of your post around here complaing about GT5, however we have very little information about standard cars but have a lot of new great news about new features, however when i see you name in a threads its mostly negative input by you.

Eh, Dev is Dev. Who else would he be or what would he say? He has to play lawyer with every syllable.

 

[Raitziger]

Some of the cars have interioirs on GT4 also. People even drive with view hack to get cockpit view in GT4.

 

[eSZee]

There's no such thing as premium and standard in Prologue and we have actually seen cars from Prologue as premium models (F430 for example).

I don't think you're understanding what he's trying to say.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think a fair amount of you don't get what the criticism is, exactly. Will I play with Standard cars? Sure, but I'll feel gipped that I'm stuck with them. It's all this talk that we were getting an entirely new, from-the-ground-up, PS3-pushing game. TD brings up a good point, although to make it apples to apples, I'll have to add to it a bit: Say there's a new XBox system announced for next year. Forza 4 is also announced, to be taking advantage of this new, more powerful system. After years of delays, it's announced that the majority of Forza 4's assets are just going to be ported over from 3. There would be countless threads around here slagging Forza for being lazy.

Meanwhile, now that the Standard/Premium issue has been cleared at least a bit more... people are treating it as a feature?! That they're getting "two games for the price of one"? You all need to get into the marketing game, that kind of thinking is rewarded.

I appreciate the scope of ideas KY has for GT5. I understand he wants to include everything. That doesn't make that a wise decision. Like it or not, these games are a business first, and an artform second. PD and Sony can rely on residual good feelings from lots of players who have fond memories of the previous games (me being one of them), and the fact they don't have any completely direct competition on their console. But this goodwill won't last forever if they continue on their (frankly quite awful) current business acumen. The Honda Twitter interview was a step in the right direction, and again, Forza leads by example here; you need to get involved with the community these days.

KY mentions reading these forums. The part I'm disappointed about is he seems to read all the wishlists instead of the growing number of people who are tired of waiting, and takes that as his idea of what the community wants.

It shouldn't surprise me how many people, who were singing the likes of "the delays are worth it so that everything can be up to highest standards" have changed their tune to "we should all be happy we're getting so much!". As a self-professed fanboy, you stating you love the game, and that the frankly last-gen standard cars look great, shouldn't come as a surprise.

(EDIT) My way of trying to express my disappointment further; it turns out GT5 Prologue was closer to the final thing than I really wanted it to be. We've seen a lot of the Premium cars, and a lot of the new tracks. Adding the entirety of GT4 into the mix might make for a lot more options, but paying for the all of this last-gen stuff twice is really disappointing. Given 5-6 years, the amount of genuinely new stuff is a lot less than the norm. But I'll find out exactly to what extent the new features are implemented when it's loading up in my home.

 

[eSZee]

It's pointless Slip. We're all in our little world of high hopes and denial.

 

[Vogar]

With all the different racing categories that Gran Turismo 5 is going to cover with all the different years of cars from those categories racing against each other you have to make cuts somewhere to give you a true racing history! Showing you maybe the advantages of a modern day suspension setup when you play in that older ford gt40 or playinging around in a go kart. It will be cool to see what is in store for us since we have so little info available. Sure we have a lot of info coming in, but I have a feeling that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Oh and what are these tips coming in that we might be able to build certain types of cars from scratch? I am not sure how correct that is, but I will find out November 2 2010 if I am still alive!

 

[JDMKING13]

I think a fair amount of you don't get what the criticism is, exactly. Will I play with Standard cars? Sure, but I'll feel gipped that I'm stuck with them. It's all this talk that we were getting an entirely new, from-the-ground-up, PS3-pushing game. TD brings up a good point, although to make it apples to apples, I'll have to add to it a bit: Say there's a new XBox system announced for next year. Forza 4 is also announced, to be taking advantage of this new, more powerful system. After years of delays, it's announced that the majority of Forza 4's assets are just going to be ported over from 3. There would be countless threads around here slagging Forza for being lazy.

Meanwhile, now that the Standard/Premium issue has been cleared at least a bit more... people are treating it as a feature?! That they're getting "two games for the price of one"? You all need to get into the marketing game, that kind of thinking is rewarded.

I appreciate the scope of ideas KY has for GT5. I understand he wants to include everything. That doesn't make that a wise decision. Like it or not, these games are a business first, and an artform second. PD and Sony can rely on residual good feelings from lots of players who have fond memories of the previous games (me being one of them), and the fact they don't have any completely direct competition on their console. But this goodwill won't last forever if they continue on their (frankly quite awful) current business acumen. The Honda Twitter interview was a step in the right direction, and again, Forza leads by example here; you need to get involved with the community these days.

KY mentions reading these forums. The part I'm disappointed about is he seems to read all the wishlists instead of the growing number of people who are tired of waiting, and takes that as his idea of what the community wants.

It shouldn't surprise me how many people, who were singing the likes of "the delays are worth it so that everything can be up to highest standards" have changed their tune to "we should all be happy we're getting so much!". As a self-professed fanboy, you stating you love the game, and that the frankly last-gen standard cars look great, shouldn't come as a surprise.

Just as you don't get us some of us don't get you. You said you feel gipped being stuck with the Standard cars 1st of all i don't get this, you are acting like they are giving us the same exact cars from GT4 with no upgrade. This is not the case. We get GT4 cars that look up to par with all the new racing games today, We get a new damage system that we didn't have in GT4, and the best thing we get is the new physics upgrade from GT5. The new physics engine makes driving all those car in GT4 we drove before go out the window. Now with your favorite car from GT4 you can drive with a all new true to life feel which is going to give you a great feeling. O yeah you feel gipped though using those standard ok no prob. You have the option to drive 200 of the best looking cars in any racing game with night to day transition, full damage, weather effect a great new online features and with much more to come. we might even get DLC. In the end bro if you look at it from a postive attitude its like 2 different games in one. Hell yeah i wish i got 1000 premium cars but we didn't just got to move on.

My take a sec to load but if you watch this video of the standard they look very good IMO i can live with that?
http://cdn2.gran-turismo.com/jp/common/data2/movie/20100616_e3/gt5_standardcars.mov

 

[Vogar]

I hate to say this, but I like how a lot of people make it sound like the game creators "owe" us something. They don't owe us anything they are creating the game and we buy it if we like it or sometimes even if we don't! For all you know they could cancel the game tomorrow and repay the people back that ordered it already.

 

[freshseth83]

I guess people don't pay attention when KAZ said himself that the standard cars are brought up to a new standard and that they are totally redone. Porting from PS2 to PS3 might be what people THINK happened, but what Kaz said is that all the cars are new, in one way or another. Taking things out of context seems to be abundant in this forum. People here are on both sides of the fence, but it seems the naysayers think they have solid proof that certain cars won't have an interior view. Taking the Honda twitter news as an example, I've seen people say that Kaz has confirmed that they'll have 'at most' a blacked out interior like GT PSP. What's funny about that is that they're wrong. Kaz asked a question if he meant GT PSP when he said blacked out interiors. All that weve seen confirmed so far is that the Premium cars will have extra details the standard cars dont. I don't see how that means 'standard cars won't have cockpit view'. Maybe some of the naysayers have video evidence? I haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen anything resembling gameplay from any standard car yet. Hopefully we do soon so we can put this crapfest to a rest.

 

[GT]

The standard cars look awesome; lots a detail and great reflections. Combine that with dirt and scratches and it will look realistic and great. I see no fault with the standard models (dare I say they look more authentic than many other cars in games) and I will drive them lovingly. Since PD did not mention a separate physics engine for either group of cars - if that were the case THAN I could understand all the criticism - I am sure they will utilize their new engine and apply that to the standard cars. So the driving pleasure will be there. Honestly I can't understand why people are being so negative; PD could have used JUST the premium cars...but now we're getting so much more. Add to this the tuning and customization and perhaps one can start to appreciate the grand scope of things.

The premium cars look incredible and one can see the effort: mind-boggling!
There are OVER 200 cars; that's right, it could be 220, 230 or maybe 240; who knows. That is an insane number folks, with that much detail. GT1 entertained me for years and it did not have a wide selection; so did GT3. Were these the worst installments? Far from it.

It is time to use logical thinking and look at the facts; we're getting a awesome product which will keep the true car enthusiast entertained for years to come. Hopefully rain, day-night transition, rally, NASCAR, WRC SuperGT, Oldtimers, Muscle cars, Formula one, real race tracks, Photo-mode, GT-TV, video-upload, car history...the list goes on and on. Try to keep that in mind.

When life presents you with something you don't like or are opposed to; you have two options:

1: acknowledge the problem; criticize it, not accepting the fact that you have no control over it.
2: acknowledge the problem, try to solve it, if not possible make the best out of it.

You can apply that ethos to anything in life, and as a Law student I can say that people tend to forget what is efficient and chose the worst route possible; use your ratio - reason - and deal with it; don't linger and moan just because you believe there is no other option.

 

[JDMKING13]

Smart man it was a good read I like #2 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Just as you don't get us some of us don't get you. You said you feel gipped being stuck with the Standard cars 1st of all i don't get this, you are acting like they are giving us the same exact cars from GT4 with no upgrade. This is not the case. We get GT4 cars that look up to par with all the new racing games today, We get a new damage system that we didn't have in GT4, and the best thing we get is the new physics upgrade from GT5. The new physics engine makes driving all those car in GT4 we drove before go out the window. Now with your favorite car from GT4 you can drive with a all new true to life feel which is going to give you a great feeling. O yeah you feel gipped though using those standard ok no prob. You have the option to drive 200 of the best looking cars in any racing game with night to day transition, full damage, weather effect a great new online features and with much more to come. we might even get DLC. In the end bro if you look at it from a postive attitude its like 2 different games in one. Hell yeah i wish i got 1000 premium cars but we didn't just got to move on.

My take a sec to load but if you watch this video of the standard they look very good IMO i can live with that?
http://cdn2.gran-turismo.com/jp/common/data2/movie/20100616_e3/gt5_standardcars.mov

If you can't see it, then I can't help you; the C5R comparison pictures show we are infact getting the same models we got in GT4. They're the slightly higher-quality Photomode ones, but that's it; GT5 has the same smudgy sponsor stickers and painted-on shutlines. The only "upgrades" from what I can see in those pictures are GT5's updated wheels, and the dithering in the car's white area has been cleaned up a fair amount. Other than that, the reason the cars look better in the video is because of the PS3's far more powerful lighting and shading capabilities. The basic models are still largely carried over. They haven't looked "up to par" since last generation. We had a very basic damage system in GT2 that affected how a car drove, so that's not new (I never understood why they took it out afterwards, tbh). The physics are good, and I'm glad. We don't know how far the influence of night/day transitions and weather stretch so far; it could very well be just like the SSR5 situation in GT3.

Your "positive attitude" is my "accepting excuses and poor planning". Having a two-tiered system is a cop-out for not setting reasonable goals, and being so rigidly stubborn about them that you end up having to recycle a large chunk of an old game to save face. Standard cars won't even have high beams, which puts them at a huge disadvantage during night races.

I guess people don't pay attention when KAZ said himself that the standard cars are brought up to a new standard and that they are totally redone. Porting from PS2 to PS3 might be what people THINK happened, but what Kaz said is that all the cars are new, in one way or another. Taking things out of context seems to be abundant in this forum. People here are on both sides of the fence, but it seems the naysayers think they have solid proof that certain cars won't have an interior view. Taking the Honda twitter news as an example, I've seen people say that Kaz has confirmed that they'll have 'at most' a blacked out interior like GT PSP. What's funny about that is that they're wrong. Kaz asked a question if he meant GT PSP when he said blacked out interiors. All that weve seen confirmed so far is that the Premium cars will have extra details the standard cars dont. I don't see how that means 'standard cars won't have cockpit view'. Maybe some of the naysayers have video evidence? I haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen anything resembling gameplay from any standard car yet. Hopefully we do soon so we can put this crapfest to a rest.

Show me where he said they were totally redone. Go look at the Corvette pictures and tell me they are. PD has a habit of things like this, so I trust my eyes far more than what they say. As for the cockpit issue; I don't think it's unreasonable that people are upset by it. Having a few blacked-out areas like PSP is not quite the same thing as a full interior. I might as well leave the game in bumper can and tape some black paper to the tops and bottoms of my TV.

EDIT - GT, uh... yes, GT3 was the worst installment . The other thing I don't think people realize is that with the Standard cars, say goodbye to any hopes you had of some serious customization. Since it's a one-piece model with painted-on panel gaps, you can't just swap out different parts. I would expect nothing more than the wing addition possible in GT4.

 

[JDMKING13]

IT sounds like you have problems... standard cars and looks In the end i bet you will have a great time in the game sorry PD let you down

"We don't know how far the influence of night/day transitions" you did not see the videos on E3? the 24 hour races are going to be the truth!

 

[SlipZtrEm]

IT sounds like you have one problem... standard cars In the end i bet you will have a great time in the game sorry PD let you down

Oh, I've already said I'll use them. I also will most likely end up with the Collector's Edition. It's not because I'm some blinded fanboy though; GT covers more of what I personally look for in a racing game than others on the system, and since I only want one system, the PS3 has been my choice. My problem isn't with them technically; it's the mixture of them making up the majority of the game, the huge amount of time since GT4 (which we were told was happening precisely to minimize this kind of thing), and the constant hyping from PD about this game being some kind of Revolution. It isn't. It'll be enjoyable, that I have no doubt of, but other than a high car count and a walking simulator ( ), it offers nothing that hasn't been done in a racing game before. Jack of all trades, master of none, etc etc.

 

[JDMKING13]

Oh, I've already said I'll use them. I also will most likely end up with the Collector's Edition. It's not because I'm some blinded fanboy though; GT covers more of what I personally look for in a racing game than others on the system, and since I only want one system, the PS3 has been my choice. My problem isn't with them technically; it's the mixture of them making up the majority of the game, the huge amount of time since GT4 (which we were told was happening precisely to minimize this kind of thing), and the constant hyping from PD about this game being some kind of Revolution. It isn't. It'll be enjoyable, that I have no doubt of, but other than a high car count and a walking simulator ( ), it offers nothing that hasn't been done in a racing game before. Jack of all trades, master of none, etc etc.

Bro we haven't even played the game yet how do you come to conclusion so fast? Also I don't care if it offers what other games offer however tell me what other racing game looks better? GT5 will the best racing game. I am more than please with the features in GT5 👍

 

[ralph89]

I love reading GTplanet thread when people start arguing. It's a fun read. Anyway, IMO the only people that is going to be affected by the lack of in-car view or cockpit view are the hard core sim crowed, like me (sort off) and wheel users. Since all the core racing fan are going to use bumper cam or third person view to makes it easier to play. It's not Mario Cart easy, but I'm sure some core gamers will get use to it. It doesn't bother me though since I'm more competitive in bumper view. Plus all of my favorite cars are going to be in premium like the NSX-R, S2000, Lamborghini Murcialago (Whatever series), and some other cars, even the cappuccino! The tuned version one of course. So I don't have a problem with the standard and premium issue. Maybe they will update each cars one by one with free DLC or update. Where not living in a PS2 era anymore, people, so there is still hope .

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Bro we haven't even played the game yet how do you come to conclusion so fast?

It's not a statement anybody should be getting defensive over; it's just fact. There have been other games with damage (compared to what we've seen so far, more impressively too). There have been other games that did day to night cycles. Other games have done more extensive exterior modifying, or livery editing. Like I said, GT does most of it, but is best at none. It's a trade-off; I accept its drawbacks because I'd rather have the stuff it does offer all under one title. It saves me money.

Also I don't care if it offers what other games offer however tell me what other racing game looks better? GT5 will the best racing game. I am more than please with the features in GT5 👍

Well, the good news is, since you're going to be playing a game by people who have put graphics above everything else in the scale of importance, I guess you're in the right hands.

 

[terminator363]

Does anybody still even care about this?

 

[JDMKING13]

Does anybody still even care about this?

i Don't i just want GT5 in my hand I'm so glad i run my own business i will take of for a week 👍

 

[Devedander]

Do you think Ky and his team didn't want to give us 1000 Premium cars? If you say yes then your not a GT fan.

By what logic does that work? Because you say so?

If you don't like playing in cockpit view you are not a GT fan.

If you don't like license tests you are not a GT fan.

It doesn't make it so becuase you say so. I am indeed a GT fan, with the exception of 2 (which I just didn't play very much) I have spent a lot of time on the GT games and perhaps I am not a fan in the sense that I will love GT just because it's GT, but I am definintely a fan in that up until GTPSP, I felt GT was a high quality offering for the genre.

I don't think you can simply say did they want to or not. I think on some level of course they wanted to, but I don't necessarily think that was the plan all along. I think it's entirely possible that his plan from the get go was to only upgrade the GT4 cars to GTHD quality and then build the collection from there essentially getting us to where we are today.

 

[Devedander]

Eh, Dev is Dev. Who else would he be or what would he say? He has to play lawyer with every syllable.

What can I say? I call it as I see it... and in the face of a lot of fanboys, the truth will probably look very negative.

And to be honest, while I am certainly one of the less positive voices on the forum, rather than focus on my directions, why not look at the points I make and arguments I put forth... I think if you do so you will see that as unpleasant as my manner may be to many GTP fans, it's actually quite accurate.

 

[JDMKING13]

By what logic does that work? Because you say so?

If you don't like playing in cockpit view you are not a GT fan.

If you don't like license tests you are not a GT fan.

It doesn't make it so becuase you say so. I am indeed a GT fan, with the exception of 2 (which I just didn't play very much) I have spent a lot of time on the GT games and perhaps I am not a fan in the sense that I will love GT just because it's GT, but I am definintely a fan in that up until GTPSP, I felt GT was a high quality offering for the genre.

I don't think you can simply say did they want to or not. I think on some level of course they wanted to, but I don't necessarily think that was the plan all along. I think it's entirely possible that his plan from the get go was to only upgrade the GT4 cars to GTHD quality and then build the collection from there essentially getting us to where we are today.

No prob i respect that 👍 in the end this is it for me im just going to wait for GT hopefully you guys can have fun with GT5 because i will. 24 hours at the green hell... here i come 👍

 

[Devedander]

I guess people don't pay attention when KAZ said himself that the standard cars are brought up to a new standard and that they are totally redone. Porting from PS2 to PS3 might be what people THINK happened, but what Kaz said is that all the cars are new, in one way or another. Taking things out of context seems to be abundant in this forum.

So we are to believe what he says (and what we think it means) over what is plainly in front of us?

Did you see the recent comparison shots that show basically the only upgrade to the GT4 cars is a higher resolution of rendering and the built in GT lighting engine?

If they did rebuild the cars from scratch, they built them pretty much exactly like the GT4 models... I mean I suppose they could have wasted time doing that but it seems pretty silly to assume that.

And didn't he actually say that they threw away all the code from previous GTs? So like the physics engine and graphics engine and such and not necesarily the assets?

At best those are the photomode models from GT4 which apparently don't look much better than the in game models.

I am not taking what Kaz says out of context, I straight up don't believe it means what you are telling me it means becuase of what I can see with my own eyes. Basically if they did waste time rebuilding all the models from GT4 to look basically the same in GT5 that was actually a time waste and a really poor decision.

 

[Devedander]

Since PD did not mention a separate physics engine for either group of cars - if that were the case THAN I could understand all the criticism

There was no mention the cars would have significantly different levels of exterior detail. Isn't that the same kind of omission? Yet it doesn't get the same kind of reaction?

Honestly I can't understand why people are being so negative; PD could have used JUST the premium cars...but now we're getting so much more. Add to this the tuning and customization and perhaps one can start to appreciate the grand scope of things.

This is called rationlization. It's not bad because it could be worse. The burned steak is not bad because they could have also burned the potatoes and veggies. It's not a logically sound thought process.

It is time to use logical thinking and look at the facts; we're getting a awesome product which will keep the true car enthusiast entertained for years to come. Hopefully rain, day-night transition, rally, NASCAR, WRC SuperGT, Oldtimers, Muscle cars, Formula one, real race tracks, Photo-mode, GT-TV, video-upload, car history...the list goes on and on. Try to keep that in mind.

That is not logical thinking, that' is a combination of rationlization and denial.

While what you say is there is (likely) true, it doesn't mean the other thing is not still a negative.

Again, the steak is still burned even if the potatoes and veggies are perfect AND you get bonus dessert and delicious hot tea to finish it off.

When life presents you with something you don't like or are opposed to; you have two options:

1: acknowledge the problem; criticize it, not accepting the fact that you have no control over it.
2: acknowledge the problem, try to solve it, if not possible make the best out of it.

I guess I see those slightly differently:

1: Acknowledge the probem, make sure your voice as a paying consumer is heard as much as it can be and know that to some extent most feedback has some results. It may not be until a generation or two down the road, but making it known you are not happy with this decision lets them know that they need to consider that when they make similar decisions in the future.

2: Acknoledge the problem, decide to rationlize it and cower and be satisifed with blissful denial. Basically subscribe to the battered wife syndrome and act like as long as it could be worse, you should be happy to have it, even if you are a paying consumer who is ultimately the boss and ultimate writes the paychecks via purchasing.

You can apply that ethos to anything in life, and as a Law student I can say that people tend to forget what is efficient and chose the worst route possible; use your ratio - reason - and deal with it; don't linger and moan just because you believe there is no other option.

I usually know what is efficient... usually not not fighting back and or cowering or running is the most efficient.

Get a traffic ticket? Paying it gets it dealt with fastest. Go to court over it and it's time and money out of your pocket on a gamble.

Someone abuse you? Take it and ask for another. Fighting back is the longer harder road.

It all depends on whether you are interested in doing whats best or whats fastest and easiest I guess.