http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfeYSAmlUvg
Now that pretty much everyone has weighed in on the Gran Turismo 5 Time Trial Demo, it’s time to let the guys at Digital Foundry take a closer look at exactly what is going on under the hood. You might remember their video performance analysis of Prologue, which shed some light on how different output settings and environmental conditions affected the frame rate. They’ve ran the same tests again, and their results are not too surprising.
If you thought the demo looked a lot like Prologue, your eyes weren’t deceiving you. Indeed, their test results showed nearly identical performance, with the presence of the ghost car proving to be the greatest detriment to frame rate. I’ll leave the technical details up to them, but you can watch their cool graph of dropped frames in the video above. Meanwhile, the debate over just how “much” this demo will represent the final version of the game rages on…
Thanks to “Lord Von PS3” for sending this in!
See more articles on Digital Foundry, GT5 Demo, and video.
Lmao at some of you comparing Forza to Gt5. The game is running 1080p!!!! last time i checked it takes tons of power to generate 1080p. To drag down a great looking game like gt5 to forza level is a disgrace to KY, a real sim to an arcade racing game. what looks like to me, imo is that gt5 already looks miles ahead than any other racing game and didnt bother putting the final engine in the time trial. Gt5 looks miles more beautiful and that other game.
Btw graphics aren’t everything PD have the physics to back it up.
I wasn’t too impressed by the demo but I was expecting it to be closer to the new trailers and screenshots. I’m thinking this is an older build without all the new bells and whistles that we keep seeing in the great trailers. Or it might just be that this track isn’t all that great at showing GT5’s strengths. For example if you remember that cityscape in one of the GT5 trailers that has the cars driving throughout the city and people looking at them for a couple seconds you can see the great detail in the roadwork. Something like that won’t be evident in the track from the time trial. But for 200 mb that was some fine work indeed. It makes me doubt whether BluRay is really needed for a racing game like GT5.
S3 Racer –
Indeed. I am well aware of the Forza fanboy’s mud-slinging efforts on this site. Those guys are almost obvious in the way the way the post. My favorite? The constant need to compare anything GT (Prologue, TT Demo, GTPSP, GT HD) to Forza 3. GT5 is not even out yet, but the way I see it is that Turn 10 and Forza 3 fans feel the need to attack due to shortcomings and/or insecurities. When GT5 is out, then make a case, albeit a foolish one.
Devedander –
That’s my point. Both sides of the fence are ignorant at times, but I actually find less fault in the GT fans due to one reason. Every GT game to hit a console has provided genre leading features. Why should anyone believe that GT5 will be different?
Plus, the individuals at PD have massive ammount of experience with vehicle engineering with the KY who has real world racing experience running the show. To me, without a racing background, KY knows what he is talking about. Yet, there is plenty of posters on this site that say the physics are wrong. All I say to individuals in that regard is please provide similar videos of YOU behind the wheel on track in a high performance racing engineered vehicle. It’s simple really.
Now if someone such as yourself wants to pick apart a demo due to technical deficiencies, and you are an actual computer systems professional, so be it. But, I feel compelled to remind you that GT5 is not even out yet. So what does someone such as yourself attempt to gain by analyzing a demo? Personally, I believe PD should run at a media and public blackout so they can concentrate on providing the best racing game to date, and not focusing on every comment or video made by website, blog, or self proclaimed “racing simulator expert”..
Oh and as for “Voila the one thing zou understood right about my comments.” if you put the whole quote in, I immediately said that that damage has already been done via seeing the demos in action at various game shows. So giving us a demo with those features would not give anymore value to the competition. They have already seen it…
That’s what I was getting at:
Can you copy the code? No… doesn’t work. No risk.
Can you copy the ideas? Yup. Ideas have already been shown. No furthe risk.
Look, you keep making arguments that have no logic behind them. It’s not like by watching a demo replay 1000 times T10 can figure out how to squeeze 8 more cars on track at once. And if they DID figure out how to steal some great ideas… they can’t impliment them into F3 so it’s not product suicide as the it would be F4 before T10 gets a chance to use these stolen ideas!
Your arguements as to why putting out more features in the demo would be “product suicide” (note mere months after T10 put out there game and I explained how you can’t just DLC patch in huge changes like you are infering): flawed.
S3 you seem to have forgotten where you said:
“Here the demo can be ripped apart from the HDD and do some reverse enginerning,…”
I explained to you how reverse engineering is not a concern because only two things could come of it:
One they could decompile the code, strip it out and use it in their program. This won’t work since code is comming from highly optimized PS3 langauge to highly optimized 360 code.
The other thing they could do is revese engineer it to see what features are in it… but they don’t need to since the above means that anything more than seeing the feature in action is useless. Once I see you have weather I don’t need to know how many arrays you dimensioned in what order to build a weather system… mainly because in my world it will probably have to be done very differently anyway since I am on a totally different system.
Now if you had some other idea of how something could be reverse engineered out of a game that would make sending out a whole demo product suicide please enlighten me.
As it is, you sound like someone who has watched CSI or Start Trek a few times and decided that with that knowledge you can now spot potential problems.
So please, explain to me what exactly someone could get of value from reverse engineering something in a Demo of GT5…. go ahead.
BTW I am a computer tech and have done a fair amount of coding. Nothing near the scale of GT5 but plenty to understand that you couldn’t just reverse engineer anything of value out of having the demo on your own hard drive.
Churchill: Take two words out of a men sentence and you could hang him
Do you read the posts?? Or do you just quickly comment negativly on everything that is said:
Did I say copy paste the hole code?? did I say 1:1 copy, did i stated i was a race driver or an engineer???
I don’t think so.
“The only worry PD really has to consider is that another company will see something interesting in their game and decide to add a similar feature stealing PD’s thunder.”
Voila the one thing zou understood right about my comments.
And as i see it, only a handful of person talked about the physics, which is the keyfactor of the demo, all the other comments of release dates and graphs, damage are useless to this point.
and who are you to know about everything:engineer, race driver , dev,… ?? And why always come up with ms, xbox, fm3,…. there are others…. makes me wonder…?
@maxpontiac – sure… people may make claims that they are race car drivers and never tracked a car ever… but at least they are faking some reasons and backup facts… the claim GT5 is quite pften simply put out there with no supporting fact other than “I know it will be” or some such… even in the face of evidence that is questionable to support that claim at best and actually raises some serious doubts.
@S3 – I think you are doing the equivalent of the mentioned above but with computers instead… it sounds like you are making a lot of arguments based on how you think things work but your lack of experience in those realms shows in your logic.
You are suggesting that T10, EA or whoever would reverse engineer PDs work off GT for use in their own games?
I am sorry but that’s not quite how it works… you can’t just take someone elses weather engine and drop it in yours… coding doesn’t work that way. I can’t just take MS’s code for spell checking and copy paste it into Open Office.
I mean the reality of it is, the biggest comptitor out there is T10 and what you are suggesting is that an exclusive on one system which is certainly coded very differently from GT and with a ton of system specific optimization that makes it essentially latin to GT5s code will somehow rip off code from a game optimized for a cell processor with a completely different architecture than what the 360 has to offer?
Sorry… your backup logic is totally flawed.
The only worry PD really has to consider is that another company will see something interesting in their game and decide to add a similar feature stealing PD’s thunder. But basically the damage that could be done on that front is pretty much done once you show a demo or video of it in action.
Sorry S3, you are just diggin the hole deeper.
Playing a little devils advocate here, but how much better could the full game be if it is struggling to keep 60fps with just 1 car on track.
One of the few good things of FM3 is the damn near flawless 60fps. The only thing that I can remeber that lowers framerate (this is from the same guys who are doing the tech analasis of this demo) is changing views.
I can’t comment on physics though for 2 reasons. 1, I havn’t played the demo. 2, I have not drivin the same car on the same track.
Nice thing about opinion is everybody has a different one.
@Dev: I didn’t say they would do a 1:1 copy,…
TGS demo, nobody except sony had it on the HDD, so nobody could take a closer look. Here the demo can be ripped apart from the HDD and do some reverse enginerning,…
@maxpontiac:
Fact, no suscription here, so *probably* we have some FM-boys here talking the game down, like the one: G25 is shit with the game (com’on!!!)
I like the demo, even if i think it has still some work to do (physics, not the other stuff which isn’t GT5), but if this is the max they can suck out of the ps3 , i’m good with it.
PD and Sony should not do any PR and promo a month before the release, like all the other devs, so they can work on it peacfully without consumer reactions…. (that’s the job of game testers).
Devedander –
As much as the PD and GT fans defend the game, posters such as yourself are constantly posting as if you offer a professional analysis on GT5. Take a look at some folks posting about how good/bad the physics are, yet most (if not all) have no clue or background in racing or engineering. If someone does, feel free to correct me, and provide credentials, thank you very much.
It’s a two way street of one fanatic type on right, and the other type on left. Each one offers nothing but fuel to the fire.
GTplanet has way to many negative comments when one considers that the game that isn’t even out yet.
OMG. when are you geeks gonna learn. That the more you B!tch about the process of the game the longer it’s going to take for it to come out. If PD keep on fixing every little annoying bug on there game. It’s gonna take at least ten more year for GT5 to come out. You know it’s never going to be PERFECT. It’s a freaking game for crying out loud. It will never be like driving a real car. There’s always something missing. If GT5 doesn’t come out soon I am done with the franchise. It’s taking way too long. Why can’t they just output some good enough game and let us play. Instead of trying to please every geeks out here. I’m sorry, but if it wasn’t for all of the crying GT5 would of been released already. Then that’ll give PD more brain storming work to do about their GT5 released. Instead of fixing how accurate the damage system’s going to be. Or how a couple second frame rate could cost GT fans to commit suicide if they don’t fix this problem. STOP your whining kids and just let them release the game already.
ok im no computer whiz as far as looking at frame rates and all lol except when its actually noticable but i mean just think…..if PD put out such a limited demo or what not its leaving most of us thinking..What will the real game look like? we don’t know at all do we?Then on top of that its for a contest lol. And I think that PD knows what they are doing in making us think “what if and when and how and why” Just look at us on this forum we are all debating over this and we havent seen a finished product. Most demos are different from the demo. Like FNR 4 Had glitches out the ass and it was one of the most anticipated games of the year and then the final product didn’t have as many glitches. now of course u can’t compare boxing to racing but i mean come on it is a demonstration of the game be easy the average consumer isnt gonna be like “hey wtf the frame rate dropped by 3 frames hell naw im takin this shit back” No they are gonna play the game because they don’t notice it or don’t care to notice it at all for that matter they just wanna play the game and enjoy it
@ Devedander
sorry spock, emotion and desire did overpower logic and rational thinking.
S3 I think you give DLC a little too much credit… if you look back MS made a version of Katamari that could be controlled by NATAL for a demo and said even that was too much to release as a patch, the whole game would have to be rebuilt and re released.
You can’t just DLC in twice as many cars on track, weather effects, day and night/sun movement, a new procedural damage engine etc etc…
The argument that it’s tipping your hand in the demo flies right in the face of the constant argument on this site that T10 and the 360 just can’t crank out a comparative product due to hardware (and possibly talent) limitations.
Just because you have seen it done doesn’t mean you can just go and add it.
And were the live, playable demos at GCS and TGS product suicide?
Sorry, the argument that showing what you have is damaging yourself somehow is baseless. Especially since we aren’t even talking about things that haven’t been announced or at least strongly hinted at. If they have some awesome secret up their sleeves no one knows about, MAYBE that would warrant not putting it in the demo… but we have seen damage, we have seen better graphics, we aren’t talking about things that the competition doesn’t already know will be in GT5 or strongly suspect will. Especially consider that the main competition just put out a product and so 3 months heads up will not change what ideas T10 uses from PD in the next Forza iteration.
Sorry, but the argument is nothing more than wishful thinking from someone trying to defend PDs position.
Go ahead and put your hand in the fire… I have learned not to do that… but there is no denying it, there is no evidence that GT5 will be great. Only hopes (or fanaticism) and past performance (which is not an idicator of future results) and the promises of someone who wasn’t even going to put damage in until the US market started demanding it…
Everyone saying it will be great are truly stating as fact something they have no factual base for.
Not saying it can’t be true, just saying that claiming it now shows emotion and desire overpowering logic and rational thinking.
-gt5p graphics >>>> gt5 tt demo
-what was accomplished in the GT5 demo in 200mb is completely AMAZING
-PD already claimed that they are at a place where they like the point at which their car models are at, but want to improve upon the environments—– this was a LONG TIME AGO
-gt5 WILL be improved upon this, gt5p looked better, again this demo is TRULY impressive for ONLY 200mb
enough said
I’m just ROFL because of ralph89!
[quote] You don’t want to show off your product to the competitor too early to let them copy your work[/quote]
Which competitor? Turn10 who just released Forza 2 and 3!? Slightly Mad Studios who just released Shift!? Black Rock Studio who are releasing their product in May 2010!?
Get real dudes. A game aint made in a couple of weeks.
GT5 is prolly gonna be an epic fail. It aint running at native 1080p whilest Sony claimed during their press-con of the PS3 all games on PS3 will run at 1080p. Also Sony stated GT5 was finished and they could release it any time. Sony and thereby PD are synonymous for over-promise and under-preform. This demo proofs it. Sure it aint that bad but lord get real its a farcry from what they showed us and promised us! It aint the Forza 3 killer we all hoped for. Maybe, just maybe its slighty better, but I doubt it. I mean frame drops and tearing while using low-res textures (yes high-res textures mean more work for the Cell) and only one ghost car on track w/o AI, hehe a ghost car doesnt need AI, and no damage model.
@Ville – I am a huge fan of the Forza series, and I would actually say that in some respects I like Forza more than GT (mostly car customization is way more detailed and fun to play around with in Forza compared to GT) … but even I think that the physics are way way better in GT5 than in Forza. Maybe it is just your wheel but I used my boyfriend’s Driving Force wheel and it felt fine to me after a few laps practice, the final corner seemed a little twitchy at first but I got used to it.
Anyway, I was pleased with the demo, although I wish they had used a different track. Physics = awesome. Graphics are pretty good but don’t seem to be much of an improvement if any from Prologue. Makes me want to go buy my own wheel for when GT5 actually comes out, I have mostly just used controllers my entire life of playing racing games… first experience with the wheel last night while playing this demo and I love it.
I’m just lol on the comment above me. Anyway, S3 racer is right about marketing. You don’t want to show off your product to the competitor too early to let them copy your work. it’s quite hard doing toe to toe with western business this days for their lack off innovation, and decide to copy the competition to make their product better. I’m 100% this is not the real GT5, and the one they showed in TGS is the one.
Since this is not “real demo” like we are use to have these days- I won’t say anything about graphics- you all can see it. I will say something about the steering tho. I am the happy owner of Logitech Driving Force GT and it works awesome with the game. Yes- it’s GT5 signed wheel and as which it should work perfectly, but for those who are complaining about g27 support- you shouldn’t be worry. If one Logitech wheel works great then in full version they just CAN’T make the others work bad.
All in all- In PD i trust. They have strategy of Blizzard. They give themself a time to polish their product no matter how long it will take. GT, GT2, GT3, GT4 – those are all great titles that made Playstation car racing history. Why should it be different now? Have a little faith in PD and some patience :)
ps. sorry for any flaws- english is not my native language
@Ville
Lol, i don’t understand why you people keep bringing FM3 to this site, and compared to GT5, do you work at Turn 10, stop comparing an arcade racing game to a sim
forza 3 feels different, easier for casual approach, anyways
Forza 3 every car feels the same( every car has the same over steer and under steer) there is very low car driving performance tunning, im not saying it sucks, its a great racing game ” a good arcade racing game”
in forza 3 everyone can pick the controller and play it with no problem even on highest difficulties, well thats not a sim, sorry.
http://www.securitydriver.com/aic/stories/article-124.html
Forza 3 is a great racing game, but its not a simulator.
Isit just me or does anyone else think that the graphics are poor in relation to Prologue?
The game physics and G25 incompatibility didint quite work well. The steering was awful in Dual Shock and even more awful with G25 and i could’nt get it work in any setting. It is lacking something. I only played the demo for 20mins, quit and found something better to do. I think Forza 3 has better physics for playing especially the steering.
GT4 HD………
After 6 years and spending over 60 million you would expect a better demo then this. Frame drops and tearing with only one car one the track and prolly low-res textures is just crap. Too bad though cause I was hoping GT5 would be a killer racer. Maybe gonna pick it up when its in the bargain-bin.
@Dom
You right textures wise GTR2 looks better, but in everything else GTR2 loose.
@Dom&Devedander:
Putting out the real deal now , 3-5 months before the release would be product suicide. Every other developper team could and would take a closer look to the encoding, graphics, and physics and would replicate them. Mr. Cooky (from FM3) would probably do copy-paste and in a dlc upgrade their game. Sony would loose big!!!
And if you don’t understand that very wise business move, don’t stat Sony marketing is shit. I put my hand in the fire that there will be a HUGE improvement over this in GT5.
Everyone reading this and still complaining, you don’t understand business managment and you better shut up before blaming yourself
I think the textures are the main problem. I am a PC sim racer and even GTR2, which is by god not a great looking game, looks much better if you max out the settings. If you play regular PC games with 16AA and ultra high textures, this game looks like it’s 10 years old.
It’s only a demo, and I don’t really care, but the PS3 architecture is really limited with the gpu and the memory. I don’t think the final GT5 will look much different.
ok,3000 post saying this is only a 200MB demo…and NOBODY talks about the real problem.
1)people that believe the final build will be 100% better how can you be so sure? do you work
inside PD?
2)the REAL PROBLEM I am worying.
If in 1 track with 1 car and ghost we have plit second frame skippin and 5 frame drops how the hell the game will prevent those things with smoke effects,car damage and 16 car running in the same track?
@ralph I think we all expected PD to put out a quality demo… it’s not like they were limited to 200MB… they chose to do that.
Saying “it’s only 200MB what did you expect” is like saying “hey that restaurant cooked your food in a microwave instead of the oven, how good did you expect it to be?”. Maybe it’s good for a microwave dinner but WTF? Why only that?
And to continue the analogy, let’s say that same restaraunt was about to cater your wedding in a few months… PD is bringing up GT5 in a few months, what they show now, no matter what they say about representing the final product, is all we have to go on as a sign of where they are in the bigger picture.
wow, I really thought that the analysis would run as smooth as silk!
It scares me a little. How will they get much better graphics, and still maintain the solid fps ?
Im talking about graphics from TGS. those graphics are awesome.
I’m surprised that the Time Trial demo of GT5 got criticize. What do you expect in a 200mb game? LOL. Oh well, people will never stop complaining about tiny bits of mistake on EVERYTHING.
I need help with something, i got a g25, but how come i just cant get the hang of it? i always spin out even at 30kmph!!!! what am i doing wrong?
I think it’s hilarious the almost religious fanaticism with which some people defend GT and PD…
Considering that all the actual evidence we have to support the directiton it’s going (ie prologue, videos from game conferences and now the demo) isn’t anything particularly spectacular so far (considering everyone claiming how GT5 WILL rock their world despite what’s out now makes that point).
I hope GT5 will be awesome as much as the next guy, but I think being realistic about what is here now instead of what will be later would be kind of valuable.
OKay Sony Said that the graphics in the demo were not the final representation of the GAME! and honestly who f*ckn care it’s still better than forza1,2,3,4,5& 9 lol, as for the physics…. MASSIVE improvment!!! the cars feel real… with that said bring on the FULL VERSION!
Why are we talking about little tiny invisible things that we hardly see.
Yeah the cuts in game are *pretty* disturbing,…
But gt5 will rock my world,
Currently 187th International
4th Dutch and Luxemburg combined (can’t make the difference between the flagst + 1 and 3 used pads ;)
Now watching my rocker replay :P
of curse it will look like better… the zise is small but in the full game you will se the diference……………………………………………………………………………………
daddy yankee mundial coming soon……………………………
gt5 coming soon too………….
I’m a pretty big GT5 fanboy and I personally do not think GT5 will look any better. Some tracks will look better then others but that’s really up to location and not by how many new graphical effects will be implemented.
I am not sure but I think in real life Nissan 370Z comes with something like N2 tyres and not N3…so that little difference that someone is missing here, could be due to tyres (they affect handling A LOT)…with N2 tyres stock 370Z in GT5 could be just what Aero and others are missing.Keep in mind that.
The demo look, feels and sounds like GT5p does.
If this is not a demo, it would contradict what PD announced and would be yet another horrible PR move.
If this really is an advance of what GT5 will be like, well then I have to ask wth have PD been doing these past 3 years since GT5p was released.
I noticed the game skips when crossing the line and some check points. Its no big deal, but it is really annoying sometime. Even though the game never drops below 50 fps, the slowdown is really noticeable.
gt5 is going to look better than this,gt5p looked better than this,it just a demo..
it’s not the exactly same thing as Prologue, according to the guys at B3D, the game is now using 2xSSAA (temporal) alongside the 2xMSAA (in 1080p) and the 4xMSAA (720p) of GT5P, and some different “technique” in the pixel rasterization to simulate super-sampling ;)
Anyone who wants to see proof about the differences in texture quality need not stray too far.
Just compare Indy’s oval road texture to the inner track sectors. You can see the difference very clearly just coming off the main straight. Even the first couple of grass tiles on the immediate road side is higher detail compared to the blurry textures used for grass further in.
The difference is as clear as day and night.
Pretty sweet fps! Seems to stays in 5% +- to 60fps… (never under 55fps if i understand it right). What is the green and orange bars??
I just downloaded the demo in The Netherlands.
What is this stuff…??
Aero-R has a point though. I mis engine brake too. Also last corner before the main strait: try to get understeer by turning your wheel far too much to the right…. Is that the way it is in real life. I doubt it…
Hope they fix these things, because they’re so close to perfection.
IMHO!! This Demo has got nothing to do with the Final release.. (0) This is just made for this competition and that’s all.. :O) say’s WHo!! I DO!! It’s really not that hard to figure out.. :O)
Merry Christmas GT Folks.
Flagmo-T
Aero-R. Are you playing with a wheel and aids off?
It’s a totally different animal with a wheel. What I found to be twitchy and difficult to control with the Sixaxis became silky smooth with the Driving Force Pro. I usually use a pad (it’s not my wheel) but it’s amazingly different with a wheel and I’d say pretty realistic.
Graphics I guess no, but on physics it’s announced as a trial to test the physics of the new GT5 (as it’s shown at the start of the Demo) and I was honestly quite bored with it. After playing other sims those days, me, who has been since 1998 playing every GT, was quite disappointed. I drive a Starion Turbo daily, and of course it’s not a huge sportive car but as the normal car it is, I know what’s driving an LSD Turbo FR car and play with it losing the grip and playing with the control of the wheel, and this trial when talking about physics is nothing about driving a car, it was honestly ashamed of being GT something quite big but at the same quite small when talking about car reaction (honestly if on GT5 I still see that every gear enter without problem if you switch from 5th to 1st without sense of any motor brake, I’ll be lost). Graphics…? this is GT, who cares about graphics, we know already that it won’t lack anything on graphics but it’s on “the real driving simulator” where they’re wrong !
I really hope they get the fan reaction and do something with this, because I still found better physics not only on any PC sim but also on other PlayStation 3 titles like Ferrari Challenge. It’s a shame.
@chris
Will you tell my missus that?
200mb is nothing.. compared to gtr2 or rfactor tracks, they are around 60mb each and 1/5 of the quality. cars are the same.
this demo has coding for physics, online feature, settings mode, the manual, all those settings, 2 different cars, music, sound(engine, sound effects etc) the coding for wheel support, and is still ONLY 200MB its amazing seriously
@ chris
yes it does mate
@Chris
Of course size has do to with stuff like that. Most of the people are complaining about low res textures for the track. High res textures are a lot bigger and would increase the file size (and affect performance). And considering that an average demo comes with a file size of ~1GB, it`s pretty awesome for a 200MB Demo to still look like Prologue.
I think the final product won’t show much difference than this time trial, common, its 3 months left to release the Jap version, I suppose the only option left for Polyphony is to add more cars to the game, but so far the game is amazing in all aspects, lets just hope the best for GT6, after 2012 if the world didn’t end :O
Its strange how there’s split second frame skipping in the game….
Hi fans,
I think, we shouldn’t be all that pessimistic with the framerate.
Maybe PD just tried to make the landscape less detailed to put a better physics engine into it.
As you can seee, the framerate only drops when the car brakes, makes turns or does other things, that slow it down.
On my opinion, the physics engine shown in this demo is somewhat “buggy”
Those bugs may cause the game to slow down (yeah, 5 FPS, as if u noticed it)
Hope you all have a nice day, folks
cheers
Blinkwing
it is what it is
complainin wont make them bring another demo
now all you have to do is chasin your tail
I dont think size has anything to do with it.
It’s all okay for me!
The physics are so lovely..and the graphics are still really really good
Mmm
ME TOO,,,IT IS TOO SMALL
For 200mb I’d say it’s good enough