Britain - The Official Thread

[Clinton Ducks]

Now go and read the full paper (or even the article that was linked - as you're still missing massive parts of this) rather than something you blatantly googled 30 seconds ago.

Introducing the “15-Minute City”: Sustainability, Resilience and Place Identity in Future Post-Pandemic Cities

The socio-economic impacts on cities during the COVID-19 pandemic have been brutal, leading to increasing inequalities and record numbers of unemployment around the world. While cities endure lockdowns in order to ensure decent levels of health, the challenges linked to the unfolding of the...

www.mdpi.com

Displaying your Dunning-Kruger to this extent is, while entertaining, not constructive.

All of this applies more to the USA than the UK. I’ve lived in several cities in my life: Bristol, Portsmouth, Manchester, Glasgow, Preston, and a few towns: Reading, Blackburn, Wokingham. Never have I been more than 15 minutes from a high street, at least a mini supermarket, a bus stop or train station, parks and playgrounds, gyms, schools, pubs and restaurants. Everything you need. Everywhere is laid out like villages within cities already, which isn’t what it’s like in the US granted; but here - maybe if you need to go to the big B&Q on the outskirts of town you need to jump in the car, but you’d need to get whatever you’re buying from those places back to your house somehow anyway - we’ve already got what these ideas are proposing.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Let's not forget Clinton has poor comprehension when it comes to time and distance...

Have you considered cycling? Christ you could even walk 12 miles in less than 2 hours but by bike it’d take 30 minutes, maybe less if you bomb it.

 

[Scaff]

All of this applies more to the USA than the UK. I’ve lived in several cities in my life: Bristol, Portsmouth, Manchester, Glasgow, Preston, and a few towns: Reading, Blackburn, Wokingham. Never have I been more than 15 minutes from a high street, at least a mini supermarket, a bus stop or train station, parks and playgrounds, gyms, schools, pubs and restaurants. Everything you need. Everywhere is laid out like villages within cities already, which isn’t what it’s like in the US granted; but here - maybe if you need to go to the big B&Q on the outskirts of town you need to jump in the car, but you’d need to get whatever you’re buying from those places back to your house somehow anyway - we’ve already got what these ideas are proposing.

Still not read it I see, I know a good number of those towns and cities well, and in no case does it apply to them. You may be able to find small parts that (just) meet the minimum, but not a single one of them meets all of it, and certainly none of them come close with regard to cars not having a total priority in terms of the majority of transport infrastructure use.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

I think if anything, you’re proving you haven’t read it! It describes the American city layout. UK cities are entirely different.

You’re acting like I’m against the idea. I’m not, I’m just stating - truthfully, with the experience of actually going outside from time to time and not getting all of my information from articles on the internet - that in the UK, our towns and cities already adhere to the 15 minute city layout.

Perhaps unless you live right on the outskirts of a large town or city maybe. But then why would you buy a house that’s nowhere near anything and then complain that you’re nowhere near anything?

 

[Scaff]

I think if anything, you’re proving you haven’t read it! It describes the American city layout. UK cities are entirely different.

The research paper I linked to covers use cases globally, including a number in Europe, the press article linked covers Paris (not the American one) as it's core example. It doesn't describe a solely American city layout at all, and the concept is being implemented globally.

You’re acting like I’m against the idea.

You've not demonstrated you actually understand the idea.

I’m not, I’m just stating - truthfully, with the experience of actually going outside from time to time and not getting all of my information from articles on the internet -

I've already deleted posts from this thread for using ad-hominin attacks, that should have been a big enough clue that it's not acceptable.

that in the UK, our towns and cities already adhere to the 15 minute city layout.

They don't and guess what...

Perhaps unless you live right on the outskirts of a large town or city maybe.

...look you even admit it.

But then why would you buy a house that’s nowhere near anything and then complain that you’re nowhere near anything?

Affordability, access to work (what most people base location around and shouldn't have to), availability. I can keep going.

Now you claim the UK already hits 15-min cities, but lets look at just one of he factors, access to work. The average commute in the UK is 27 minutes, 68% of which is done by car. On that metric alone the UK doesn't meet the measures involved (and once again it's a lot more than those metrics alone).

 

[Clinton Ducks]

So you’d want factories, depots, refineries and warehouses plonked right in the middle of your neighbourhood would you?

 

[Scaff]

So you’d want factories, depots, refineries and warehouses plonked right in the middle of your neighbourhood would you?

Please go and actually read the damn paper and article, rather than continue to use a signal-to-noise ratio that's all noise.

Until then, what is presented without evidence will be dismissed as the strawman it is.

 

[Tired Tyres]

So you’d want factories, depots, refineries and warehouses plonked right in the middle of your neighbourhood would you?

You have really chosen the smallest hill to die on.

 

[Roo]

You have really chosen the smallest hill to die on.

But is that hill within 15 minutes of his home?

 

[Famine]

But is that hill within 15 minutes of his home?

Depends how steep it is, and in which direction.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m the only one here who has actually read the materials presented, i.e the fluffy guardian article and nonsense paper.

If we all believe that the world can keep turning on the power of artisan bakeries and book shops and not actual industry, maybe it’ll come true. In the meantime I need to go to the shop for some bits and also the barber, both within a five minute walk through the already diverse neighbourhood at my front door. Dunno where you all live, the moon?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m the only one here who has actually read the materials presented, i.e the fluffy guardian article and nonsense paper.

If we all believe that the world can keep turning on the power of artisan bakeries and book shops and not actual industry, maybe it’ll come true. In the meantime I need to go to the shop for some bits and also the barber, both within a five minute walk through the already diverse neighbourhood at my front door. Dunno where you all live, the moon?

Best pick up some batteries for the CO2 monitor while you're at it.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

Best pick up some batteries for the CO2 monitor while you're at it.

It’s probably a good thing then, that the industrial estate where i, and several hundred others, work is quite a way away from where anyone lives. Might get a bit toxic round here otherwise.

 

[Scaff]

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m the only one here who has actually read the materials presented, i.e the fluffy guardian article and nonsense paper.

You've finally sorted of read one bit of it...

If we all believe that the world can keep turning on the power of artisan bakeries and book shops and not actual industry, maybe it’ll come true.

...but clearly not all of it, and failed to understand it (how surprised I am).

In the meantime I need to go to the shop for some bits and also the barber, both within a five minute walk through the already diverse neighbourhood at my front door. Dunno where you all live, the moon?

Still not getting it are you, at all. I just walked ten minutes to a shop, doesn't mean my location, or the town itself, meets what's being proposed.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

What’s become obvious now is that you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. If your only rebuttal is “read the article” - an article which doesn’t actually mention anything about what I’m saying, and “you don’t understand the concept”, when your understanding of the concept seems to be somehow different to the literal definition of the concept, then it’s plain as day you simply have nothing to say.

 

[Scaff]

What’s become obvious now is that you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. If your only rebuttal is “read the article” - an article which doesn’t actually mention anything about what I’m saying, and “you don’t understand the concept”, when your understanding of the concept seems to be somehow different to the literal definition of the concept, then it’s plain as day you simply have nothing to say.

My only rebtal isn't 'read the articel' (odd how you missed that.

However lets cut the noise from you hear, you have literally gone from "I know exactly what this is and the UK already does this in most of it's towns and cites" to "I've read the article and this is all nonsense". Two positions that are at odds with each other and that you flipped from one to the other in that space of a morning is concerning from an honesty perspective.

If you don't understand why industrial locations are not covered in an urban population model then I do have to wonder how much attention you have been paying at all.

That's an aside from the nonsense that exists in claiming that an industrial zone can't exist within a 15 min walk/cycle/bus/tram/train journey from an urban location.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

My only rebtal isn't 'read the articel' (odd how you missed that.

However lets cut the noise from you hear, you have literally gone from "I know exactly what this is and the UK already does this in most of it's towns and cites" to "I've read the article and this is all nonsense". Two positions that are at odds with each other and that you flipped from one to the other in that space of a morning is concerning from an honesty perspective.

[/QUOTE]
I have done nothing of the sort. The article, which is a load of fluffy drivel in typical Guardian fashion does indeed reinforce, in a needlessly roundabout way, the definition that I posted earlier, that yes, did take me all of 30 seconds to find, as you said, because that’s all that was required to find the definition of a 15 minute city. And having read the article, twice now in case I missed anything the first time (and I didn’t) I stand by my premise that nearly everywhere in the UK already operates in this manner.

If you don't understand why industrial locations are not covered in an urban population model then I do have to wonder how much attention you have been paying at all.

Maybe we should cover a sector that employs millions of people. The sector won’t run itself, will it?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Your calling one of the very few newspapers in this country that holds the so called government of this country to account fluffy?

 

[Clinton Ducks]

Your calling one of the very few newspapers in this country that holds the so called government of this country to account fluffy?

If you’re a leftist academia type then it’s the perfect newspaper for you, I’m sure.

 

[Tired Tyres]

If you’re a leftist academia type then it’s the perfect newspaper for you, I’m sure.

What are your choices for news?

 

[Clinton Ducks]

What are your choices for news?

All of it, and none of it.

 

[Scaff]

I have done nothing of the sort. The article, which is a load of fluffy drivel in typical Guardian fashion does indeed reinforce, in a needlessly roundabout way, the definition that I posted earlier, that yes, did take me all of 30 seconds to find, as you said, because that’s all that was required to find the definition of a 15 minute city. And having read the article, twice now in case I missed anything the first time (and I didn’t) I stand by my premise that nearly everywhere in the UK already operates in this manner.

Then perhaps read it a third time (and the original source paper) and let me know how many UK towns and cities prioritise public transport, walking and cycling over cars?

As that would be required for them to meet this concept, and yes that is covered in the article, it even includes pictures to illustrate it,band explains how it was one of the areas they expected the highest level of opposition to. I'm stunned you didn't pick up on that.

Maybe we should cover a sector that employs millions of people.

So unless a plan covers everything then it's invalid, that's a rather absurd position to take. Concepts for future industrial planning exist, and funnily enough they don't cover how we should build urban population centres.

The sector won’t run itself, will it?

Already answered and ignored by you.

Your calling one of the very few newspapers in this country that holds the so called government of this country to account fluffy?

If only someone would provide a link to the original paper it was based on....


...oh wait!

 

[Clinton Ducks]

Then perhaps read it a third time (and the original source paper) and let me know how many UK towns and cities prioritise public transport, walking and cycling over cars?

As that would be required for them to meet this concept, and yes that is covered in the article, it even includes pictures to illustrate it,band explains how it was one of the areas they expected the highest level of opposition to. I'm stunned you didn't pick up on that.

There are already high streets, bus stops and train stations near to where the vast majority of people live, everywhere in the UK. I don’t need articles or papers to back this assertion up, because it’s a simple fact. Go outside, look around.

So unless a plan covers everything then it's invalid, that's a rather absurd position to take. Concepts for future industrial planning exist, and funnily enough they don't cover how we should build urban population centres.

It’s unreasonable to require a so called ‘plan’ that proposes drastic changes to the way people live their lives to cover every detail of how people live their lives??

The whole thing reeks of idealist liberal delusion that doesn’t take into account people who actually work for a living, ergo typical Guardian fluff.

 

[Scaff]

There are already high streets, bus stops and train stations near to where the vast majority of people live, everywhere in the UK. I don’t need articles or papers to back this assertion up, because it’s a simple fact. Go outside, look around.

Once again a strawman, the existence of highstreets, bus stops, and train stations doesn't show a prioritisation of public transport and walking/cycling over cars, no matter how much you love reminding us you've been outside (this isn't a unique characteristic to you), as such you're going to need to evidence your claim beyond 'I can see and have been outside'.

Oddly enough the article (that you have read and totally absorbed) provided two examples showing this to not be the case...

"In London, there has been a furore around the expansion of the ultra-low emissions zone in London, and attempts to pedestrianise Oxford Street, the city’s busiest shopping district, have failed."

..strange that you also missed those.

It’s unreasonable to require a so called ‘plan’ that proposes drastic changes to the way people live their lives to cover every detail of how people live their lives??

Yes, it is, that should be rather obvious, as such a claimed plan would be utterly impossible to create. I suspect you already know this and are now just throwning crap at a wall and hoping something sticks.

 

[Clinton Ducks]

Yes, it is, that should be rather obvious, as such a claimed plan would be utterly impossible to create. I suspect you already know this and are now just throwning crap at a wall and hoping something sticks.

15 minute cities sound great. But what’s the solution to people needing their cars to get to work?

“Unless everyone wants to work in the artisan bakery, there isn’t one”

It’s a stupid idea then, is it not?

“You’re only saying that because you’re a right wing conspiracy theorist”

 

[Scaff]

15 minute cities sound great. But what’s the solution to people needing their cars to get to work?

Addressed in both the article and the paper referenced (and the Wiki page you took a screenshot of - didn't you bother reading it).

“Unless everyone wants to work in the artisan bakery, there isn’t one”

Another strawman.

It’s a stupid idea then, is it not?

Given that you needed to construct a strawman to then pose this question I think we can dismiss it along with the dearth of sources used to create it.

“You’re only saying that because you’re a right wing conspiracy theorist”

Err, what?

 

[TexRex]

Where do these people live? Who wouldn't want to have convenient things nearby and spend less on gas? I get that conspiracy theories aren't exactly rational, but I'm struggling more than usual to understand how there is backlash against better city planning of all things.

If it's supposed to be about tethering people to a certain spot that's easily done now. We'd all be under house arrest and wait for the They's (TM) rations truck to come around with our illuminated allotted daily supplies.

It's so funny because those pushing for walkable cities are likely to be those who support free movement between areas, while those most opposed to walkable cities also tend to oppose free movement, especially across national boundaries.

Setting aside conspiracy atheorists, which is to say those who purport some ambiguous "them" are doing something but can't coherently specify to what end, conspiracy theorists tend to craft these narratives as bat**** crazy "justifications" for irrational oppositions, and the opposition to walkable cities seems like a case of cascading antis rooted in climate change denial, where walkable cities are seen as measures to mitigate climate change more than a matter of convenience.

 

[Touring Mars]

 

[UKMikey]

 

[HenrySwanson]

'I was raped on an island by a paedophile monk when I was nine'

EXCLUSIVE: As a child, Kevin O'Connell was 'abused' on Caldey Island by a monster monk named Father Thaddeus Kotik who has also been accused of molesting others.

www.dailymail.co.uk