FAKE NEWS? You haven't seen the real thing yet.


Nothing snide about it, I'm still asking where the fake news is - we surely can't count spin? It was my opinion (and I accept that it was only my opinion) that @Sanji Himura gave a number of reasons why he thought Obama acted unconstitutionally and why Trump was right. An agenda is fine, spin is fine, but where's the bloody fake news!? :D
 
Nothing snide about it, I'm still asking where the fake news is - we surely can't count spin? It was my opinion (and I accept that it was only my opinion) that @Sanji Himura gave a number of reasons why he thought Obama acted unconstitutionally and why Trump was right. An agenda is fine, spin is fine, but where's the bloody fake news!? :D
There you go again putting words into my mouth or at the very least taking what I said completely out of context.

The fake news is "Trump is repealing DACA."

The real story is "Trump is repealing DACA until Congress can get their act together and pass it."
 
Did he say that he would keep it at the end of those six months, if Congress declines to pass their own DACA law? No? Then "Trump is repealing DACA" is an entirely true statement.
I and everyone else saw President Obama say publicly on no fewer than four occasions he lacked the proper constitutional authority to make DACA law. Then, astonishingly, he finally did it on a temporary basis through executive order.

When the next president was elected, he correctly realized that DACA needed to be enacted into law by the people's representatives and not continued as an executive order of dubious legality.

IMO any American who wishes to abrogate the law in favor of unconstitutional executive authority is some kind of anarchist or revolutionary.
 
I and everyone else saw President Obama say publicly on no fewer than four occasions he lacked the proper constitutional authority to make DACA law. Then, astonishingly, he finally did it on a temporary basis through executive order.

When the next president was elected, he correctly realized that DACA needed to be enacted into law by the people's representatives and not continued as an executive order of dubious legality.

IMO any American who wishes to abrogate the law in favor of unconstitutional executive authority is some kind of anarchist or revolutionary.
Are all executive orders dubious in terms of their legality?
 
Are all executive orders dubious in terms of their legality?
No. But in this case US President Obama explicitly said - over and over again - that this one was more than dubious in its constitutional legality.

But that said, all you people who are citizens of other countries are free to live in your individual systems whatever they may be, from communist to royalist to fascist dictatorship, and I won't give a hoot or invade because of it. My comments are essentially directed at Americans, and I have no quarrel with authoritarian, anarchist or revolutionary approaches chosen by those of other nations. Okay?
 
Directly-quoting source?
As I have said more than once, I and scores of millions of other Americans watched him on network TV affirm that he lacked the proper authority on numerous (at least 4) occasions. These have been repeated over and over again, and are common knowledge to virtually every American who has any kind of interest in this DACA story. This is fact and this is common knowledge.

If you had a sincere interest in the facts you would already have educated yourself as to this. And as we find ourselves here in this stupid Fake News thread and you are a foreigner whose system of government is a matter of your own concern, I'm strongly tempted leave you to dig yourself out of your own terrible obsessions.

But out of pity for your ignorance, sloth, and non-constitutional system of government, I will bend over backwards for you once again. :rolleyes:

 
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But out of pity for your ignorance, sloth, and non-constitutional system of government

Charmed, I'm sure. In the speech you so gracefully linked Obama points out that the framework for deportation suspension was already passed by Congress. At no point does he say "DACA is unconstitutional". You may feel it's common knowledge that he's said as such and therefore it should be all the easier for you to be able to show him saying it.

And still no fake news.
 
Charmed, I'm sure. In the speech you so gracefully linked Obama points out that the framework for deportation suspension was already passed by Congress. At no point does he say "DACA is unconstitutional". You may feel it's common knowledge that he's said as such and therefore it should be all the easier for you to be able to show him saying it.

And still no fake news.
First sentence out of his mouth, sir.
 
First sentence out of his mouth, sir.

You watched a different video or you're simply confused. The first sentence out of his mouth is "with respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order... that's just not the case, uh, because there are laws on the books that congress has passed."

He points out that the mechanism for suspending deportations already exists in law passed by Congress (as you were saying earlier should be the case). He doesn't say that DACA is unconstitutional as @Dotini is claiming, I'm sure @Dotini will come back with a source where he does.

STILL no fake news.
 
I and everyone else saw President Obama say publicly on no fewer than four occasions he lacked the proper constitutional authority to make DACA law. Then, astonishingly, he finally did it on a temporary basis through executive order.

When the next president was elected, he correctly realized that DACA needed to be enacted into law by the people's representatives and not continued as an executive order of dubious legality.

IMO any American who wishes to abrogate the law in favor of unconstitutional executive authority is some kind of anarchist or revolutionary.

What has any of that got to do with the question of mine that you quoted?

Here it is again, in case @Sanji Himura has mustered any interest in answering it yet:

Did he say that he would keep it at the end of those six months, if Congress declines to pass their own DACA law? No? Then "Trump is repealing DACA" is an entirely true statement.
 
Quite the brouhaha in here . . ..

People don't like to be found gullible. This is what makes bigots of us, or fundamentalist, or . . . simply programmed to read into what we see what we have been taught to see.

The phrase 'fake news' hotly contested by some as 'undefined' is still strongly connected (in fact by the same people) to only one concept and no other - it stretches the intellect to drop all metaphors and read the phrase as it stands. To help in this, I'm going to pull out my teeny-weeniest thesaurus (so as not to stretch such intellects beyond the limits of their comprehension) and have a look at some of the synonyms that will help in understanding what the phrase could mean.
Here's the teeny-weeny source:

IMG_1640_zpsfq7z7obq.jpg


Yes, it's the real thing, not a photoshopped image (ISBN 0-00-472379-1)

Let's get to the page that gives us some idea of what 'fake' means (without prejudice):

IMG_1641_zpspf1d4dzg.jpg


Now we can pick any one of those synonyms, and . . .

IMG_1642_zpsoeltmwo3.jpg


. . . right. We got a bunch of new words that stand for 'news'.

We can mix and match to our heart's content then, getting pretty much the same meaning for the phrase when we are talking about fraudulent information. Doesn't matter where it came from - the Imam, a priest, one's teacher, parents, neighbour, friends, the barkeep at the local pub, a TV screen, a tabloid . . . sometimes even a textbook - which is why sometimes textbooks, too, get revised.

I would have loved to table this discussion under the heading: "Quack quacks? Here's the real McCoy!" but I'm sure that would surely have gone over the heads of those getting Lucifer to light their fags after having a butty.

In short - if you find something fraudulent that we have always believed, or being made to believe, and you have irrefutable proof that it is false (no argument necessary) then this is the place where we show off the 'real thing'.

That should take care of those confused about the 'political' title (merely biased imagination to think that way) and also why the FEMA link was placed in here - so that those confused by the plethora of 'fake news' being passed around during the hurricanes could look up the 'real thing' at a site reputed for its credibility.

And it's up to us to maintain that - for quite often we pass around fake information as real, unwittingly - but with the best of intentions.

_________________________

Now - a story how false information leading to political bias shot down a perfectly good piece of action that was actually benefitting a community:

'The Danforth', as is commonly known in Toronto, is an old and established street - a tourist attraction really - and (to keep a long story short; one can read up everything in the links provided for the details) the slogan 'Make Danforth Great Again!' was being used in a certain project.
OH! NO! A white suprematist slogan! How dare they! Etc.
The whole project went to pieces after that.
Ronald Reagan was a white suprematist? Why didn't someone tell me this before? There go all his movies into the trash. (I'm kidding - I knew the 'real thing'.)

IMG_1645_zpsr0lary2r.jpg


“This country needs a new administration with a renewed dedication to the dream of America, an administration that will give that dream new life, and make America great again,” Reagan said in a Labor Day speech in 1980.
He also used the line in his convention address that year. “For those who’ve abandoned hope. We’ll restore hope, and we’ll welcome them into a great national crusade to make America great again,” said Reagan.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/make-america-great-again-who-said-it-first-n645716

Here's the story in detail:

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/it-s-ridi...er-make-danforth-great-again-slogan-1.3548952

Obviously trying to make the bigots who shot down the project, and were very, very 'offended', accept the 'real thing' was difficult.
They will probably take that sort of bigotry to the grave (while applying it to many other quack quacks they firmly defend)

This is why fake news gets engraved in stone and is passed on through generations, till people kill other people over it.

_________________________________________________________

The use of the Donald Trump articles I quoted before were merely examples of how insidiously op-eds get accepted as the real thing (and vice-versa) - it is not to signify that I voted for and support his policies - but merely to point out how easy it was to fool some of the people some (or all) of the time. That is dangerous - to all of us. The spread of ignorance is the primary mental disease we should all strive to eradicate - a reason why I also showed comparisons of the word 'sword' being used in two different Holy Books - since I was quite tired of people telling me that the Qu'ran was the 'Book of the Sword' and not the Holy Bible. Doesn't matter really about why one has it and the other doesn't, use the facts as one will, but let's stick to the facts as much as possible in a world where hunting down the real McCoy is becoming increasing difficult in a world where information (a lot of it false, or dressed up, or twisted, or bigoted,) is passed around as gospel, and moreover whose fake authenticity is hotly defended (sometimes by those without even an iron in the fire but merely wanting to hoist the brand as real with the attendant reflected glory).

_________________________________________________________

As for 'denials' . . . that artful ploy used in days of yore to sell more newspapers (though, really, does anyone buy a newspaper these days? or even pay for cable TV?):

Lurid Trump allegations made by Louise Mensch and co-writer came from hoaxer
The hoaxer, who fed the information to Taylor by email, said she acted out of frustration over the “dissemination of fake news” by Taylor and Mensch. Their false stories about Trump have included a claim that the president was already removed from office in a process kept secret from the American public.
“Taylor asked no questions to verify my identity, did no vetting whatsoever, sought no confirmation from a second source – but instead asked leading questions to support his various theories, asking me to verify them,” the source said in an email.
After being approached for comment by the Guardian on Monday, Taylor posted what he described as a “mea culpa” on Twitter. “As a ‘citizen journalist’ I acknowledge my error and do apologize,” he wrote.
Mensch denied using the bogus information and said her allegations about Trump’s model agency came from her own sources. Asked why she had retweeted Taylor’s false posts, Mensch said: “I don’t think anybody can vet anybody else’s sources.”

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...hoaxer/ar-AAqWimH?li=AAggFp5&ocid=mailsignout

_________________________________________________________

As a final note in this post - listening to the UN conference tonight about the sanctions on North Korea, it was said that that country looked very, very dark, blacked-out, from high up in the heavens while the rest of the world looked so bright and lovely and all. Right:

balazhfakejpg_zps84f3r1rg.jpg


The above is a screen shot off MSN, text included.
Someone, please furnish me with a ticket to the Space Station.
 
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-real-story-of-fake-news

Merriam-Webster
The reason fake news is unlikely to be entered in our dictionary anytime soon is that it is a self-explanatory compound noun — a combination of two distinct words, both well known, which when used in combination yield an easily understood meaning. Fake news is, quite simply, news (“material reported in a newspaper or news periodical or on a newscast”) that is fake (“false, counterfeit”).

I guess according to this US dictionary, false information from non-traditional news sources is just regular, garden-variety BS.
 
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it stretches the intellect to drop all metaphors and read the phrase as it stands

It stands in meaning and context. You're the one flapping about trying to make it mean "random stuff the internet says".

I would have loved to table this discussion under the heading: "Quack quacks? Here's the real McCoy!" but I'm sure that would surely have gone over the heads of those getting Lucifer to light their fags after having a butty.

Slow hand clap... and what a shame that "Pack Up Your Troubles" was written for an American musical - Her Soldier Boy. I bet that's not in your thesaurus.

Now - a story how false information leading to political bias shot down a perfectly good piece of action that was actually benefitting a community:

'The Danforth', as is commonly known in Toronto, is an old and established street - a tourist attraction really - and (to keep a long story short; one can read up everything in the links provided for the details) the slogan 'Make Danforth Great Again!' was being used in a certain project.
OH! NO! A white suprematist slogan! How dare they! Etc

How many people today still associate the phrase with Reagan, do you think? Especially compared to how many compare it with Trump? I'd say it's a fact that more people associate it with Trump and his strongly isolationist campaign. I don't think he's a racist (I think he's an idiot who's said some borderline racist things) and I suspect I'm not alone.

Still, nobody in your article says "white supremacist" or "racist", do they? And any such sentiment is clarified with the word tantamount. You'll be needing your little book for that.

Lurid Trump allegations made by Louise Mensch and co-writer came from hoaxer

Close. We're getting close. Let's pretend for a minute that Mensch and Taylor are still journalists even though they aren't and they're not employed by any news agency now and write their own anti-news blog.

Can you show that Mensch only used the email source and doesn't have a second source as claimed (acceptably unlikely) or that no part of the allegation is true (statistically less likely)? If not then you have unlikely news that could be fake but we just don't know.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-real-story-of-fake-news

I guess according to this US dictionary, false information from non-traditional news sources is just regular, garden-variety BS.

Use a thesaurus to define actual word meanings, it makes it much easier :D
 
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Somehow, this post strikes me as the best example here of "too much freetime."
Waiting for the "no you!" post.

Perhaps the extended amount of digital detox time between the thread originator's posts affords him the time he needs to compose mammoth essays which hardly anybody reads or responds to. For my part it only took around fifteen seconds to type "fake news definition" into a search engine and post the results.
 
Somehow, this post strikes me as the best example here of "too much freetime."

One sentence, with purposely poor-grammar for sarcasm, has a higher time-investment than a how-many-word long narrative?, or the post poking-holes through it?

Dr-Evil.gif


@UKMikey - Close, try again. :sly:
 
Had a hearty chuckle over this one. The Headline:

Exclusive: New Report Offers Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise In The Trump Era

So hate crimes are up in 2017 right but down or even before that right? Wrong. Turns out they were up in 2015 and 2016, before Trump even took office. Partial data suggests the trend continues in 2017. In the fine print you'll find that Indiana, and likely other jurisdictions, had increases in the number of law enforcment jurisdictions turning over data but no mention is made of how this affects the overall totals and year over year increases.
 
Had a hearty chuckle over this one. The Headline:

Exclusive: New Report Offers Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise In The Trump Era

So hate crimes are up in 2017 right but down or even before that right? Wrong. Turns out they were up in 2015 and 2016, before Trump even took office. Partial data suggests the trend continues in 2017. In the fine print you'll find that Indiana, and likely other jurisdictions, had increases in the number of law enforcment jurisdictions turning over data but no mention is made of how this affects the overall totals and year over year increases.

That's not fake, it's extreme (very extreme) media bias. It's literally true that there's been a rise in the Trump era, the headline just excludes any mention of the Obama era which the article's data also covers. Belongs in the "media bias" thread.
 
That's not fake, it's extreme (very extreme) media bias. It's literally true that there's been a rise in the Trump era, the headline just excludes any mention of the Obama era which the article's data also covers. Belongs in the "media bias" thread.
I disagree for the reasons I mentioned. The headline implies that it's a new thing and wasn't occurring before Trump which is fake. In the fine print it's mentioned that there is a significant increase in the number of agencies reporting in Indiana but the very large graph shows a 123% increase in hate crimes. That's a fake statistic. If fake statistics are included in the overall numbers then the entire report and the data it contains is fake as well. A link is also provided to HateWatch and they include flyers and anonymous letters in their hate crime statistics. While vile and reprehensible I'm sure, one letter full of misspelled hatred towards Jews = one bombing or stabbing in terms of statistics. That seems like bias to the extreme and renders their statistics almost void of any real meaning.
 
The headline implies that it's a new thing and wasn't occurring before Trump which is fake.

It doesn't state it though, it implies by omission. That's not fake news, it's biased news. None of the facts in that headline are incorrect. Nor are any of the facts reported in the article - however turgidly presented.
 
It doesn't state it though, it implies by omission. That's not fake news, it's biased news. None of the facts in that headline are incorrect. Nor are any of the facts reported in the article - however turgidly presented.
Your interpretation. The entire report is based on a questionable data and and it's erroneous to draw conclusions from questionable data, hence it's fake.
 
Your interpretation. The entire report is based on a questionable data and and it's erroneous to draw conclusions from questionable data, hence it's fake.

Poorly considered? Sure. Poorly presented? Yeah. Fake? No. As @TenEightyOne pointed out, none of the facts in the article are false, they're just framed in a selective way.

This is problem with having a president yammering about "fake news" all the time, everybody feels free to start applying the term to anything they don't like.
 
Poorly considered? Sure. Poorly presented? Yeah. Fake? No. As @TenEightyOne pointed out, none of the facts in the article are false, they're just framed in a selective way.

This is problem with having a president yammering about "fake news" all the time, everybody feels free to start applying the term to anything they don't like.
Nope. Who said anything about not liking it? If the underlying data is questionable then you can't draw conclusions and therefore the so called "facts" are fake.
 
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