Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Different cars have different habits when taking curbs or having situational weight transfers.
He didnt use the BMW Gr.3 too much before if I remember correct, so maybe this just adds to the problem.
It may add, but there’s definitely a change. I’ve done a lot of RA with the R8 and could feel the change in curbs off the bat. Noticed a lot of people binning their cars in races. SuperGT pointed it out in his video also with him binning it nearly every race. Cars are harder to recover.
 
Since 1.38, depending on which car / track / tires combo I use, I feel more information coming from road surface to my t300. I also feel the curbs more. It gets me more confident in the car with the vibrations coming mostly from understeer or overdriving it. I feel the differences in the stiffness of the wheel depending on the car so it is easier to compare how one car behaves to another which is the core fun of the game for me.

I found the curbs seem to unsettle the car more than previously and that landing from hitting the sausage curbs feels better even though it was updated for the best in a previous version.

There is now lift off understeer you get from all the cars but I can feel it more from FF cars. It seems that you can get better traction while cornering with foot on accelerator halfway. During a curve, I clearly get understeer from off throttle or full throttle. It is like the differential is only working on acceleration and not on deceleration. Nothing you cannot fix with a momentary downshift to rotate the car before quickly upshifting again exiting corner. I base my opinion mostly on the civic type r Nurburgring time trial and the Mazda 3 gr4 daily at Laguna Seca which both felt really great to drive.

From my point of view, it is not perfect but the game gets better every update. The more I drive it, the more I sense details in the physics. There is more than meets the eye. I say the game simulates half the driving and your brain does the rest of the simulation. I love driving.
FFB is remarkably improved compared to Day 1
 
One question I always ask myself is "Is a 1:1 physics mapping in a racing game the perfect solution?"

Personally, I don't think it is.

Because sim racing usually lacks a lot of information that is available in reality. The field of view is more limited (can be improved with 3 screens or VR) and kinetic forces are compltely missing.

Therefore I think the game physics should take these aspects into account.
It is important that it is comprehensible what the car does and it is fun to drive.

Personally I think GT7 does a good job here, just like ACC, AC, PJCars or the WRC, Dirt and F1 games.
 
"Things you find annoying in GT7" is probably better thread for this comment:

I just can't understand why 'literally every single' road car come with 1-1 anti-roll bars!
If you add, let's say SM tyres to any stock sports car; they become very unpredictable under brakes, instantly slingshotting you sideways due to this weight transfer.

Just did a quick slalom test with LaFerrari from 3rd person view and it does wobble like a waterbed.

Well, one could argue that 1-1 ARB doesn't represent the real value of the setup; just like 0 brake balance actually isn't 50%, or is it(?)

To be honest i'm not that excited to get LFA, since it probably handles like a old muscle car just like they all tend to do.
 
"Things you find annoying in GT7" is probably better thread for this comment:

I just can't understand why 'literally every single' road car come with 1-1 anti-roll bars!
If you add, let's say SM tyres to any stock sports car; they become very unpredictable under brakes, instantly slingshotting you sideways due to this weight transfer.

Just did a quick slalom test with LaFerrari from 3rd person view and it does wobble like a waterbed.

Well, one could argue that 1-1 ARB doesn't represent the real value of the setup; just like 0 brake balance actually isn't 50%, or is it(?)

To be honest i'm not that excited to get LFA, since it probably handles like a old muscle car just like they all tend to do.
I agree, even with SH most cars sway under braking, try a stock R32 for example. I usually downgrade to CM or CS because of this, SH are too grippy anyway for a stock road car.
Brake balance at 0 is not 50:50, it just means "default", which is whatever the car comes from factory with.
 
"Things you find annoying in GT7" is probably better thread for this comment:

I just can't understand why 'literally every single' road car come with 1-1 anti-roll bars!
If you add, let's say SM tyres to any stock sports car; they become very unpredictable under brakes, instantly slingshotting you sideways due to this weight transfer.

Just did a quick slalom test with LaFerrari from 3rd person view and it does wobble like a waterbed.

Well, one could argue that 1-1 ARB doesn't represent the real value of the setup; just like 0 brake balance actually isn't 50%, or is it(?)

To be honest i'm not that excited to get LFA, since it probably handles like a old muscle car just like they all tend to do.
You don’t really think 1-1 ARBs in LaFerrari and Fiat 500 are the same stiffness, right? Of course it’s just a stock value, which you can (sadly only) stiffen up.
 
If you add, let's say SM tyres to any stock sports car; they become very unpredictable under brakes

I agree, even with SH most cars sway under braking, try a stock R32 for example. I usually downgrade to CM or CS because of this, SH are too grippy anyway for a stock road car.
I'm still not sure what the different tires in the game are meant to represent.

I guess Comfort is just like the 08/15 tires most "regular" road cars come with.

And Sport I guess would be like a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (for hard?), a Cup 2R (for medium?) or a Toyo Proxes R888R (for soft?). So street legal but more optimized for track use. IRL those tires (maybe not the regular Cup 2, but the Cup 2R and the Toyo) need some temperature to work well, but that's not a thing in GT7.

So I wonder why Comfort tires would work better in game? I never tried those tbh, whenever I buy a car the first thing I do is buy Sport Soft tyres.
 
I'm still not sure what the different tires in the game are meant to represent.

I guess Comfort is just like the 08/15 tires most "regular" road cars come with.

And Sport I guess would be like a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (for hard?), a Cup 2R (for medium?) or a Toyo Proxes R888R (for soft?). So street legal but more optimized for track use. IRL those tires (maybe not the regular Cup 2, but the Cup 2R and the Toyo) need some temperature to work well, but that's not a thing in GT7.

So I wonder why Comfort tires would work better in game? I never tried those tbh, whenever I buy a car the first thing I do is buy Sport Soft tyres.
CS would be something like a Pilot Sport 4/5 and equivalent from other manufacturers (think GoodYear F1 or Dunlop Sport) CM would be regular economy road tyres, and CH are mostly used to "simulate" 60s and 70s tyres technology, or crappy modern Chinese tyres I guess.
The sport tyres you have them pretty right.
Imho stock SH tyres make 0 sense whatsoever on any road car, because I can't think of any road car that comes with semi slicks, this is why I usually downgrade them to CS if my purpose is to drive them 100% stock.
SH and above need suspension tuning I think, they're too grippy for the stock suspension on most road cars.
 
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Imho stock SH tyres make 0 sense whatsoever on any road car, because I can't think of any road car that comes with semi slicks, this is why I usually downgrade them to CS if my purpose is to drive them 100% stock.
I tend to keep the realism up also but since there's no open world and we drive all those cars on tracks and not in traffic on streets, I don't see the point here. Almost everyone who drives his car on a track IRL seems to slap Michelin Cup 2 or something equally on, even if the car is fully stock otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, that's no criticism about your method. The different tires are just a part of the game I still have to learn about and don't really understand yet.
For example: The AMG in the current TT on Interlagos uses Sport Soft but still feels awful to drive there.
 
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Comparing lap times with stock cars against real life data, you will typically find that something like a hot 200tw (Yokohama A052, Bridgestone re71rs, CR1, etc) runs lap times between a CS and SH. Most trackday tyres, 100tw, etc are a little faster between SH and SM(though it is worth noting some of the 200tw are just as fast on track as the 100s, for a lap or two...) and something like a Hooosier A/R7 turns laps a tick slower than the same car on SS tyres in the game.

There is plenty of data on stock cars that are rendered in the game. Between press testing the BRZ and data from 86cup, there are a lot of lap times and even telemetry available on these cars at Laguna and Willow, for example. It's been a while since I've tested them, and the physics are constantly updated, so perhaps it's worth another look.

It is also worth mention that lap times alone are only part of the picture when comparing to specific real life tyre models. Even in real life, tyres that turn similar lap times often do so very differently. Some tyres have better longitudinal grip, others lateral. Sometimes one tyre is better putting power down and braking, but another has more lateral grip and higher corner speeds; and they can run the same times on the same car but you have to drive them differently. When I had tested previously, I used a combination of known car lap times and data from 86Cup, which provided not only lap times but also telemetry including geographical line and speeds at all points on the track. So it was easy to compare straightaway max speeds, braking points, cornering minimum speeds and minimum speed points, etc. From there, you can gain a better picture of how each tyre behaves, and compare that with the data you obtain in the same car on various tyres in game. Again, perhaps time to revisit.
 
You don’t really think 1-1 ARBs in LaFerrari and Fiat 500 are the same stiffness, right? Of course it’s just a stock value, which you can (sadly only) stiffen up.

This is like comparing two extremes; but I honestly do not know, since LaFerrari is so much lower (with stiffer suspension) and other countless factors - Yet it sways like that.
My intial point was that the stock suspension (ARB), in general, is way too sluggish - Wheter or not it's identical across all cars, i don't know. Some cars are better than others, but this behaviour is always there.
 
OK, I was really curious about the different tires now, so I just did a quick test.
I used the track/car combo I know best (Dragon Trail Seaside/Radical) and did one lap with each set of tires. Those were my lap times:

Comfort Hard: 2:18.975
Comfort Medium: 2:06.486
Comfort Soft: 2:01.423

Sport Hard: 1:56.975
Sport Medium: 1:55.962
Sport Soft: 1:52.963

Racing Hard: 1:48.893
Racing Medium: 1:47.719
Racing Soft: 1:46.259

Intermediates: 1:54.053
Heavy Wets: 1:56.310


CH are really bad! Those were the only tires that sent me off track, and not just once but three times! And I had to turn TCS up here 'cause accelerating is a nightmare. Overall I'd say those tires render the car pretty much undrivable.

One thing that surprised me is that there is not much difference between all the tires for braking. That's rather unrealistic I suppose.
 
There is quite a bit less variation in longitudinal grip between tyres in real life vs lateral grip. For example, a car shod with Hoosier A7s may be capable of 1.5-1.7 times the lateral grip of a particular street tyre, but likely has closer to 1.1-1.2x the longitudinal grip of that same tyre.

There are several factors influencing this. Typically, a tyre with higher lateral grip is going to have a stiffer carcass, specifically much stiffer sidewalls. This is counterproductive to producing longitudinal grip, as it causes the contact patch more shock when transitioning from throttle to braking and vice versa. If you get a chance to play with an unmounted hoosier, you will notice that you can sit on the tyre and the sidewalls don't collapse, or give at all. But if you plant your hand in the middle of the contact patch you can collapse the tread surface. They are like a pair of hoops with a tread surface suspended across the span between them. This makes the contact patch able to conform extremely well, while being able to support huge lateral loads. As such, they lock up much easier under braking than something like an NT01 or even a Conti Extreme Contact, Pilot PS4S, etc. Even 60ft times are way off compared to something like an NT01. As well, racing tyres are much lighter, which makes the wheel and tyre much easier to change direction(in all directions, lateral, longitudinal, even easier for your shocks to manage the compression and rebound) so they essentially require less force to lock up or spin. Of course, this is somewhat mitigated by additional mechanical grip from softer compounds, but yes in general you will find tyre grip does not increase linearly in each dimension and that race tyres typically gain more in lateral than longitudinal.

I'm being somewhat simplistic in my explanation and leaving out various bits like how the sidewall stiffness contributes to the effective spring rate at the contact patch(the sidewall is part of your suspension) and how increased spring rates decrease mechanical grip beyond a point, etc. If anyone is interested I can elaborate more, but the above is the jist of what you are experiencing.
 
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Slip angle window feels too narrow.


I've been pointing this out since the release of GT7. Using throttle to 'create rotation' is if you want to lose lap times and crash into a wall.
Slip angle practically doesn't exist in this game. You either have grip or you don't, the only thing GT7 has fixed is how violently you lost grip in the game, compared to the very beginning where the cars seemingly had death wishes, to now it's just a sudden slide and loss of grip but it's still recoverable for the most part.
 
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I'm sorry but does GT7 have a physics bug!? This has been recurring for almost a year now!

Cars would behave normally one second, grip and turn as they should. Next session suddenly the same cars have completely broken handling and slide out like that physics engine suddenly broke or failed. Cars would suddenly start understeering like crazy then snap out with zero grip even with race hards on.

If I restart the game it usually resolves this issue. It's absolutely ridiculous..
 
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I'm sorry but does GT7 have a physics bug!? This has been recurring for almost a year now!

Cars would behave normally one second, grip and turn as they should. Next session suddenly the same cars have completely broken handling and slide out like that physics engine suddenly broke or failed. Cars would suddenly start understeering like crazy then snap out with zero grip even with race hards on.

If I restart the game it usually resolves this issue. It's absolutely ridiculous..
A video of this would help see what's going on.
 
I'm sorry but does GT7 have a physics bug!? This has been recurring for almost a year now!

Cars would behave normally one second, grip and turn as they should. Next session suddenly the same cars have completely broken handling and slide out like that physics engine suddenly broke or failed. Cars would suddenly start understeering like crazy then snap out with zero grip even with race hards on.

If I restart the game it usually resolves this issue. It's absolutely ridiculous..
Stop slamming your cars to the ground and you'll be fine. Sounds like the typical 'wheels getting stuck because ride height is too low' issue (which isn't a bug, it is just physics).
 
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(which isn't a bug, it is just physics).
And it doesnt make sense that you can create such a setup, when PD has all tools available to increase the minimum height of each car to a point where it doesnt happen.
Its not like we can choose smaller tyre radius to make it work, so why would it be an option to "break" your setup like that.

Poo reaction:
im not sure why you need options that are obviously unreasonable.
Why cant every car be setup "too low"?

Would you also like the possibility to set tyre pressure to vaccuum just because the game slider allows it?
Im curious as to why support it?
 
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And it doesnt make sense that you can create such a setup, when PD has all tools available to increase the minimum height of each car to a point where it doesnt happen.
Its not like we can choose smaller tyre radius to make it work, so why would it be an option to "break" your setup like that.
Odd take. It's a simulator lad.
 
When I was driving the 787B a few days ago, it felt as though the game was giving me more feedback from the front tyres. I could get a better sense of the grip level and drive more accordingly as result. Unless that's just a trait of the 787B's suspension geometry and relatively low weight. Mind you, my paws are very sensitive when it comes to this sort of stuff.
 
And it doesnt make sense that you can create such a setup, when PD has all tools available to increase the minimum height of each car to a point where it doesnt happen.
Its not like we can choose smaller tyre radius to make it work, so why would it be an option to "break" your setup like that.

Poo reaction:
im not sure why you need options that are obviously unreasonable.
Why cant every car be setup "too low"?

Would you also like the possibility to set tyre pressure to vaccuum just because the game slider allows it?
Im curious as to why support it?

Have you ever played CarX on the ps4? you can make setups that are impossible to achieve "normally" IRL. you can make wheels so big your car looks like a hotwheels, or a monster truck...rx7..so I can climb a ledge or have a car drive under me..... But do I want less of this or more? I say more because I love customizability.... and WhistlinDiesel .... For a GT game, less variation in setups would make it too boring imo, but it might make the racing more competitive overall.

Personally I'd love if they added PSI setting to front and rear, and yes I'd like it to go as low as 10PSI and high as 50.. why? because I just KNOW the community will do funny things with it. and I want to see car meets with sparky rims from low pressure
 
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Has anyone had this bug? It's hard to explain.. but curious to know if it messes with the physics.. anywho..
There's a massive bug but I've not yet figured out if it affects the real weight, so in the settings of your car, if you make a new sheet, your weight reduction stage 1 wont carry over in the measurments. Happened on my toyota supra gt. To fix this, I simply duplicated the original settings sheet which I had to figure out which it was after I renamed it, that seemed to give me the correct weight reduction installed value.
 
I finally got a PS5 and the game on Monday. I played GT5 on PS3 for the last couple of months.

The physics of GT7 are leaps and bounds better than GT5. It seems like I can actually feel the limit. Steering angle and brake and throttle nuance actually matter and are actually important. In the PS3 era games and before even without assists you could smash brakes and throttle pretty relentlessly with most cars. Lock to lock steering worked really well too without any penalties. Well not anymore.

I totally believe that the physics aren't perfect but compared to the old games I actually feel like a racing driver for the first time.
 
I finally got a PS5 and the game on Monday. I played GT5 on PS3 for the last couple of months.

The physics of GT7 are leaps and bounds better than GT5. It seems like I can actually feel the limit. Steering angle and brake and throttle nuance actually matter and are actually important. In the PS3 era games and before even without assists you could smash brakes and throttle pretty relentlessly with most cars. Lock to lock steering worked really well too without any penalties. Well not anymore.

I totally believe that the physics aren't perfect but compared to the old games I actually feel like a racing driver for the first time.
the only issue i have with GT7 is the lackluster tyre model. It's too unforgiving on roadcars especially.
 
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