Russian Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Rage Racer
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- Russian Federation
- Kannon33r
Wat? I believe that there is chance that Trump could threat both sides enough to start negotiations, at least, about freezing conflict on current positions.
Putin doesn't afraid of Biden, so this wouldn't not work with him as President, we have two years of war to confirm that. Under Biden rule Putin became brave enough to grab some land, most likely after shameful retreat from Afghanistan.
I don't believe that Trump would be directly favourable for RF, there are 0 evidence about that after 4 years of his presidency.
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Scaff
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Trump has only ever threatened one side in this, and it's not Russia, quite the opposite, he's given Putin nothing but fawning praise.
The retreat that Trump put in place and Biden did all he could to delay? Almost ever part of that mess was engineered by Trump.
That's laughably inaccurate.
Putin bromance has US intelligence officials fearing second Trump term
Ex-president’s support for the Russian strongman has experts fretting over American interests and security sources overseas
- 2,999
- Russian Federation
- Kannon33r
Trump can't threat anyone, he aint president now.
And Biden played his role perfectly.
Most is real politics without any real benefits to RF. Few debatable points(Crimea, Afgan, frozen RPGs). A lot of cases tied to 2016 elections.
It was okish politic for 2016-2020. Donbass war was almost frozen, RF were busy with ISIS and COVID.
McLaren
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The only negotiation Trump will ever do between Ukraine & Russia is tell Zelenskyy to end the war and give up the country to “save” his people whilst Putin will go in there and do whatever he wants. Then, the civilized world waits to see if he tries yet another offense knowing Trump will not let the US stand in his way.
Putin may not “be afraid” of Biden but he knows Trump will sit like a good ***** if he tells him to.
Putin may not “be afraid” of Biden but he knows Trump will sit like a good ***** if he tells him to.
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- 2,999
- Russian Federation
- Kannon33r
He threatened Ukraine in the past? Wat?
He didn't what?
I said there 0 evidences that he would be directly favourable to RF. I didn't say that he wasn't diplomatic in the past when it was needed. Everything is relative. Let's not forget how Democrats let Putin grab Crimea and half of Eastern Ukraine, somehow that wasn't the case when Trump was President.
Because? What makes you think so? If Trump is Putin puppet, why War happened in 2022 and not in 2016-2019? Why when Trump was President whole mess in Ukraine began to calm down and there were almost 0 casualties in 2020?
McLaren
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The reason the war happened when it did and not specifically under Trump has been addressed before.
I am not on a device to properly rehash it, but you’re giving off a lot of ignorance if you don’t think Trump’s negotiating between both country’s doesn’t revolve around Ukraine fully surrendering itself & nothing happening to Russia.
I am not on a device to properly rehash it, but you’re giving off a lot of ignorance if you don’t think Trump’s negotiating between both country’s doesn’t revolve around Ukraine fully surrendering itself & nothing happening to Russia.
Scaff
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This has been covered in this thread multiple times, but as you seem to want to ignore that.
Trump–Ukraine scandal - Wikipedia
Play the role perfectly, to use your words. Please pay attention.
And you were wrong...
...and then moved the goalposts.
- 2,999
- Russian Federation
- Kannon33r
US under Biden didn't retreat from Afghanistan in most shameful way possible? Or what
They are exactly where they were, you just oversimplifying "evidences that he would be directly favourable" to saying something neutral or complementary to Russia.
Because its unrelated to topic? He didn't push Ukraine because he is Russian puppet, but because he is powerhungry and amoral person.
I never said Trump is good person. He is horrible man. He doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself.
Scaff
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That's not what I said, now drop the strawman. Trump set the plan, Trump negotiated with the Taliban and cut out the Afghan Government, and Trump drew down US troop numbers. Biden inherited that and Republicans stopped him from doing much about it, he did delay it and certainly didn't just blindly follow Trumps plan.
No, I'm not, sharing US intelligence in an uncontrolled manner with Russia was directly favorable to them
That doesn't change the fact that he threatened Ukraine and didn't threaten Russia, which runs contrary to your claim.
That you occasionally say that just doesn't cut much, given that you spend far, far more time defending him.
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Scaff
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Less of a disaster than it could have been given the mess Trump left, and that's the point your ignoring, this was Trumps doing (with GOP support) and yet you lay the blame totally at Biden's feet, excusing Trump of any part in the mess.
Tell me you know nothing about the incident without telling me you know nothing about the incident. It does show that providing you with sources is pointless, as you quite clearly don't read them.
Quite a bit of difference exists between sharing selected, redacted information and warnings (which is the norm) and just showing them raw intelligence complete with information that will reveal the sources (and the number of US sources and agents that were killed or captured under Trump increased significantly).
You've done it in this exchange, so please don't try and claim otherwise (well you didn't actually do so, you tried laughing it away, which isn't a denial). Oh, and don't quote mine what I said to try and minimise it either.
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Scaff
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Yes I did, I however didn't quote mine...
“Sometimes there are things beyond our control but there are also occasions of sloppiness and neglect and people in senior positions are never held responsible.”
...and it's odd that it wasn't a problem of this scale before or after Trump!
Nice deflection, again, that wasn't the point.
- 2,999
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- Kannon33r
Still 0 ques that its related to Trump. Both presidents were known for being irresponsible when working with classified intel, most likely its systematic problem for civilians with access.
Isnt thing like number of dead spies is classified?
That was my point when I described my position. Maybe I wasn't specific enough, but here we are.
Scaff
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- eran0004
Ukraine should be threatened for defending themselves? That’s insane. And it’s one thing to believe that Trump might be able to do something if he wins the president election, but a second Trump presidency won’t happen until next year - if ever, so why end the support of Ukraine now? Don’t you want Ukraine to be able to defend themselves until that happens?
As for threatening Russia, I haven’t been able to find any mention of that being part of Trump’s “plan”, in fact the only part of Trump’s “plan” that seems to be known is the timeframe: he claims that it could be done in 24 hours, which sounds like just another one of his megalomaniacal episodes.
I don’t think Biden had made any threats of that kind against Putin, and I think the reason he hasn’t is because he doesn’t want to escalate the conflict further.
Crimea was annexed in 2014, before Joe Biden became President and before the retreat from Afghanistan. And I don’t think the “shameful retreat” has anything at all to do with it, Putin may be mad but he’s not stupid enough to believe that a failed retreat from Afghanistan means that the US is weak.
The chaotic mess of Trump’s presidency was massively favourable for Putin’s Russia. That’s why they wanted him then and that’s why they want him now.
