I need help woth setups/Tuning for Nurburgring

  • Thread starter CorollaS
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I need setups for a few differant cars for the Nurburgring track I try tuning for it but not sure how to go about it. The cars are...

Toyota Woodone Tom's Supra (JGTC) '03
Toyota GT-ONE Race Car (TS020) '99
Mitsubishi Evolution VIII MR GSR '03
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune '99
BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01

I also need a setup for the Toyota Woodone Tom's Supra (JGTC) '03 that can work for all the tracks.. Sorry for this but also somewhat a newb but thanks for your guys help.
 
I note that you've had no responses to this, Corolla but that you have not returned and clarified either.

Does this mean that you've given up or that you have seen the light and headed for the 'stickied' information threads on tuning?
 
I have not seen the light and not given up for the car tunings on this track. I have been confused for awhile on how to tune for this track. I have not found a decent setup for the whole track I have found setups for certain types of corners but when I get to a differant corner the car will lose all grip and slide the front end or I will have to drift the corner to keep the car on the track. I just came here for suggestions on how to tune for this track or if anyone is willing to give me a basic setup for the track, so I can have a baseline tune and be able to tune the way I want to from there. I have been confused for about a month on this track when I think I found the tune that I like it all goes down hill and either I get to tight into the center of the corner then I have a mean push off almost going into the grass, or I will have a loose entry into the corner and drift it through the corner while scrubbing off alot of speed. But whats even more annoying is tuning for the bumps through the last 1/4 of the track I jump and will cause entry problems into the corners, and if I do get a decent entry I then will get into a corner the bumps will cause the front tyres to come off the ground and then I will go into the grass or the sand pits. If someone can help me with this I would really appreciate it.:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Well, the first thing to realise is that what you've experienced with being able to set a car up for one part of the track and so making it worse at others is that that, sadly, is the nature of suspension tuning.

If you tune for a specific type of behaviour then corners where a different behaviour is needed become harder to handle. It's always a compromise.

One thing that may well help tho', given the bumpy nature of the track, is to soften things down somewhat, particularly Stabalisers and Damper Rebound. Low stabalisers will help in the snaking Pflanzgarten section of the track, where the bumps can very quickly have you in the Armco if you're going through at speed. Try running your Dampers at 4/4 Bound and 6/7 Rebound - this'll mean that the suspension will be able to oscillate more freely, reacting better to the bumps rather than bouncing off them (and preventing the dreaded 'jacking down' effect).

Sadly, I don't use the type of cars you mention in post#1 so I don't have any tried and tested settings to exemplify but I'd well recommend reading the stickied guides to tuning in this fora. They're the amalgamation of quite a few years work by a number of us GT fanatics :D.
 
Follow the link to the WIKI in my sig and look for setups there.
I have made a setup for the Toyota GT-One wich is perfectly transferable to Nürburgring. Just lower the TCS to 2.
I have also made a setup for the BMW M3 GTR Racecar, wich will work just fine at the ´ring.
 
Well you gotta realize that Nurbgring is like THE ultimate road track there is..

It tests just about EVERYthing in a car... That might give you a heads up oat here im going with this..

What I can say as my first reaction for Touring cars is to simply leave it stock. I dont bothering setuping for specific tracks anyway, everything i do is off skill.

But however,Touring cars are like a downgraded version of LeMans.. so some stuff will need altering.

For Instance, The road all around is bumpier than normal, compensate by not lowering the car too much as well not to make the spring rates too stiff, otherwise, you'd get bottoming out and bouncy cars. This also applies to yours stabs and bounds/rebounds.. In addition to bottoming out and bouncy cars, dont put that TCS to 0 unless you are super confident, a rough bump can get your car to randomly swing out.

Also, Knowing that most of the cars you stated are FR's, the back will wear out a bit faster than the front?(sorry, i dont drive FR's anymore so i forgot.) Because of this you may want to stagger tire( i know you don't), but dont stagger your tires.. IF you HAVE to stagger to get the wearing out rates to be a bit more even, do that in B-Spec...Bob can handle it....

What else can I say.. Oh yes there is a LOT of tight turns, so dropping the understeer to 0 may stabilize your car during high speed bumpy jumpy turns but you also need to learn to steer acuratly and precisely, thus making both your ASM's to 0 may be a good idea.

Nurbgring, roughly 7 minutes a lap, you're tires need to last ,at least more than 2-3 laps, Don't do Super Hards (unless you can), because these lack the minimum required grip that suits this jumpy bumpy 7minute hella long track. Hard's are best all around in my opinion, anything more gripper than that will only last you one good lap. For your Road cars, maybe Hard Sports or Meds, Soft is too much for your lancer (because of all that understeer) and your GT-R.

as for buying parts,

Definitely grab hold of a rollcage to stiffen your car from any uncalled-for bumps that you encounter.

for your 4WD's take a VCD and turn the front wheel relatively low, but not all the way. Yes an FR-like car is better than an AWD here because you can definetly use the looser handling ( esp. for the lancer).

HP Boosters, A stage 4 Turbo would be a must, because there is that VERY long straight at the end of the track, and it sucks if you can't keep up with your opponents on that straight. The long straight is like the catch-up moment for me, because my cornering is not that great.

Clutches, Flywheels, Driveshaft, it's Mandatory, get those... as well as a full customize gearbox for that extra gear, try a setup that'll bring the ratios to be tight as well, allow a decent top speed( for that long straight). This part is probably hard to play with, because you need a good top speed. This means you'll overall have a lower accel rate. However, since you have all those tight turns, you'll need a good RPM picker-upper( with great torque as well). Maybe a tranny trick with a wider final gear ratio may be answer.

downforce, unles your car is light for its outpower power, you wont need to apply too much, (esp. GT-R & Lancer). You'll definitely need to apply some, if not all, to hold grip while driving at high speed as well when cornering.

LSD, ask someone who knows, jsut dont lock up you car when doing corners and not to make the car TOO stabilized.. or you can jsut leave it stock..

NOS, i discourage you from using it unless its a real emergency,becasue it has to last you at least 6.5 minutes a lap. Do hol on to one anyway and set it more to duration than power.

I think that's everything i covered.... also, remember to oil change...

Happy Nurbgring-ing..:)
 
Thanks guys for the help like I said I'm a total newb when it comes to tuning, so i am going to tune more broad for this track I think. So I dont hurt to many of the corners the bumps I will soften the suspension for the bumps, and I will need to find a ride height that won't let the cars bottom out. I thank you guys again (back to tuning I go) maybe I will find some good setups for these cars.I'm going to pay attention more to my driving as well maybe there some improvements I can make with that too. Maybe I will post some setups for others for those with the Evo and GT-R, I'm hoping that I'm not the only one having troubles with this track. Till my next post talk to ya'll later.
 
Well you gotta realize that Nurbgring is like THE ultimate road track there is.. It tests just about EVERYthing in a car.
True enough. It's very challenging in layout and in the poor condition of the surface, and it requires both speed and handling. However, there's a lot wrong with the rest of this post.
everything i do is off skill.
*cough*
In addition to bottoming out and bouncy cars, dont put that TCS to 0 unless you are super confident, a rough bump can get your car to randomly swing out.

...dropping the understeer to 0 may stabilize your car during high speed bumpy jumpy turns but you also need to learn to steer acuratly and precisely, thus making both your ASM's to 0 may be a good idea.
No, turning off both ASMs is substantially more than "may be a good idea". It's an absolute REQUIREMENT. First, I'm wondering how much you do "on skill" if you don't automatically turn both ASMs to zero as soon as you get into a car. Second, I'm wondering how accurately you can adjust the suspension when ASM itself makes the car's behaviour totally unpredictable and unnatural.

TCS should also be at zero or maybe 1 in a very powerful, light car. TCS, at least, doesn't totally screw up the handling of the car, even if it does slow it down.
Also, Knowing that most of the cars you stated are FR's, the back will wear out a bit faster than the front?(sorry, i dont drive FR's anymore so i forgot.) Because of this you may want to stagger tire( i know you don't), but dont stagger your tires..
Sorry, this is not correct. Many FR cars wear out the fronts MUCH faster than the rears - the Corvette C5R and Falcon XR8 are the worst among many.

You never want to stagger tire compounds to even out the wear rate if the FRONTS wear out faster. Cars that wear out the fronts do so because of chronic understeer. Putting softer tires on the back so they wear evenly is only going to make the understeer worse.

If the REARS wear out faster, however, it's a very good idea to put a softer compound on the front (or harder compound on the rear). This promotes front end grip and reduces understeer, with the added benefit of equalizing the heat cycles so that the car's handling balance does not shift as much during the tires' life.
IF you HAVE to stagger to get the wearing out rates to be a bit more even, do that in B-Spec...Bob can handle it....
Actually, from what I've seen on these boards and from people I know have done solid testing, B-spec Bob has trouble with any car that is non-stock. The more changes you make, the less likely he is to be able to deal with it.
Definitely grab hold of a rollcage to stiffen your car from any uncalled-for bumps that you encounter.
This will add lots of understeer...
for your 4WD's take a VCD and turn the front wheel relatively low, but not all the way. Yes an FR-like car is better than an AWD here because you can definetly use the looser handling ( esp. for the lancer).
...which you then try to tune out by adjusting the torque bias towards the rear. Why not just skip the cage? Or drive RWD cars?
HP Boosters, A stage 4 Turbo would be a must, because there is that VERY long straight at the end of the track, and it sucks if you can't keep up with your opponents on that straight. The long straight is like the catch-up moment for me, because my cornering is not that great.
A classic case. You're using excessive power to compensate for crappy handling and lack of driving practice/skill. You've built a Fast-N-Furious street missle and you've totally overpowered the ability of the chassis to keep up.

Drop the Stage 4 everything. Don't lean on that crutch. Learn to drive. Beat them with skill, not blunt power. Weren't you just saying up there that you do everything on skill? Stage 4 turbo makes that questionable.
Clutches, Flywheels, Driveshaft, it's Mandatory, get those...
Why mandatory? A 3x clutch is not expensive and it can help speed up the shift lag quite a bit, so it's often a good investment. The are OK for an almost-full-build car, but I would hardly call them 'Mandatory".

Some of your other tips, like adding the full-race gearbox, are OK but not truly necessary. It depends too much on the car to make a blanket statement like that. Some cars have very odd transmissions and some have great ratio coverage with the stock unit.
 
True enough. It's very challenging in layout and in the poor condition of the surface, and it requires both speed and handling. However, there's a lot wrong with the rest of this post.
A suspension setup that isn't TOO stiff is ideal for a track like this, putting the suspension to something that isn't very stiff will help you with all the bumps you would be going to. Just try this course with a R390 GT1 Road Car fully tuned with downforce. The settings PD put as standard is way too stiff, it was nearly at 16mm (spring rate) for a car that weights a bit more than a Honda Del Sol. IF you drive that on the Nurburgring, you are TOAST! You will feel bumps you never felt before. :ouch:

:lol:

No, turning off both ASMs is substantially more than "may be a good idea". It's an absolute REQUIREMENT. First, I'm wondering how much you do "on skill" if you don't automatically turn both ASMs to zero as soon as you get into a car. Second, I'm wondering how accurately you can adjust the suspension when ASM itself makes the car's behaviour totally unpredictable and unnatural.
100% correct. Driving with aids is more costly than using a bike with training wheels. The aids are fighting both oversteer and understeer.Whenever you oversteer...
Oversteer AIDS
OHH MY GOD!!!11 You are TURNING! You might OVERSTEER.
Then you end up head on into a concrete wall. Whenever you are not oversteering, you end up having to deal with the other side of Driving AIDS.
Understeer AIDS
You are understeering, and I will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help you.
In other words, AIDS make you have even more wierd physics. Since AIDS work partially by using the brakes, you end up slowing down into a crawl if you EVER make one tire screech.
TCS should also be at zero or maybe 1 in a very powerful, light car. TCS, at least, doesn't totally screw up the handling of the car, even if it does slow it down.
It is basically only good for the TVR Cerbera Speed 12, or the Gillet Vertigo.
Sorry, this is not correct. Many FR cars wear out the fronts MUCH faster than the rears - the Corvette C5R and Falcon XR8 are the worst among many.
True, they need some suspension know-how to make the tire wear slightly more even. I might even lower the LSD's all the way for these two, since they only are adding to the understeer of these race cars. Also reducing the downforce at the rear can help you oversteer a bit more, but that wont help the front tires too much, but that depends. If you are oversteering enough, then the rear tires can get more heat.
You never want to stagger tire compounds to even out the wear rate if the FRONTS wear out faster. Cars that wear out the fronts do so because of chronic understeer. Putting softer tires on the back so they wear evenly is only going to make the understeer worse.
I usually don't use different tires, except when Bob is driving. I'm used to just working on settings rather than tires, but with some cars, tire mixmatches are ideal. Like say when you set up your Mazda AZ1 to go over 150MPH, it really needs different tires in order to stop drifting. Same goes for the 1986 Toyota MR2's, as they just drift and drift and drift stock. But for cars that understeer alot, setting the rear tires to a slightly harder compound is good, and then going into the pit stops and only changing the front tires. That's what I used to do when I used tire mixmatches.
If the REARS wear out faster, however, it's a very good idea to put a softer compound on the front (or harder compound on the rear). This promotes front end grip and reduces understeer, with the added benefit of equalizing the heat cycles so that the car's handling balance does not shift as much during the tires' life.
Another true statement. 👍
Actually, from what I've seen on these boards and from people I know have done solid testing, B-spec Bob has trouble with any car that is non-stock. The more changes you make, the less likely he is to be able to deal with it.
You sometimes have to give him a drift setup to stop understeering with some cars. :guilty:
This will add lots of understeer...
Yeah, roll cages are almost never necessary. You are better off spending 30K on other upgrades or something. They almost ALWAYS add understeer, and never install a roll cage before your chassis get distorted. That will lock your car in the state it's in.
...which you then try to tune out by adjusting the torque bias towards the rear. Why not just skip the cage? Or drive RWD cars?
4WD cars do tend to burn the front tires, except a nicely set up Audi LeMans Quattro or Tommy Kaira ZZ-II. They are Mid-Engined 4WD cars, having a good amount of weight and balance for front tires and rear tires.
A classic case. You're using excessive power to compensate for crappy handling and lack of driving practice/skill. You've built a Fast-N-Furious street missle and you've totally overpowered the ability of the chassis to keep up.
Any car can take excessive power, you just got to learn how to set up and tame all that power. Well then again, the Escudo and TVR Cerbera Speed 12 really doesn't need extra HP, except on high speed tests. If you can't control the car because of it's handling, take some time out and experiment with changing setups. After you do that, you should be able to figure out some of the problems you are having.
Drop the Stage 4 everything. Don't lean on that crutch. Learn to drive. Beat them with skill, not blunt power. Weren't you just saying up there that you do everything on skill? Stage 4 turbo makes that questionable.
Some people learn that the hard way, excessive power is not going to win you the Citta Di Aria race.
Why mandatory? A 3x clutch is not expensive and it can help speed up the shift lag quite a bit, so it's often a good investment. The are OK for an almost-full-build car, but I would hardly call them 'Mandatory".
I use them all the time, and never buy the 2x or 1x clutch, and I always use racing flywheel. But it really depends on driving style I guess, according to PD they improve acceleration and deceleration, and response, but the Flywheel slows you on uphills.
Some of your other tips, like adding the full-race gearbox, are OK but not truly necessary. It depends too much on the car to make a blanket statement like that. Some cars have very odd transmissions and some have great ratio coverage with the stock unit.
Yeah, like the Renault Clio V6's, Nissan Stegea's, Honda S2000's, Nissan Skyline GT-R's (well most of them), etc. But it is almost a MUST for the Renault AVANTIME, as it shifts to 6 gear in only 105MPH, but the 6th gear lasts until 150MPH+!

BTW +Rep Duke.
 
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