Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Meythia
Imho, it should be plug and play for a simple reason:
it is all physics and physics are facts.
If I hit a bump with a car, there should be no "you only feel as much as you have configured" but default settings as close as possible to compare the virtual bump to the real bump with the very same car.
Any further configuration should be available only to weaken it in case of drivers who are not accustomed to it.
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Which would be great if all wheels were identical in output, so at the very least would require an in-game setting to allow the max wheel force to be set (quite common on PC titles), and also for the game dev to run a pure physics based FFB system.
 
Meythia
Imho, it should be plug and play for a simple reason:
it is all physics and physics are facts.
If I hit a bump with a car, there should be no "you only feel as much as you have configured" but default settings as close as possible to compare the virtual bump to the real bump with the very same car.
Any further configuration should be available only to weaken it in case of drivers who are not accustomed to it.
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I don't think that this can ever be possible as long there are different manufacturers of steering wheels...(and different people who play, because different persons prefer different settings...)
 
On one hand driving is nothing but a bunch of second hand vibrations, oscillations, and the like. Passed through plastic, foam, rubber, and metal. So, one one hand it feels as if it should be a straight forward deal. However, it seems the cockpit matters, rig, stand, whatever.. its all relevant..and annoying in so much that it really does require a very fine touch to dial in something which triggers muscle memory when im using vr. Flat doesn’t seem as relevant. Much easier to do flat and buy it, or at least not have it mess with my normal driving. Its weird.

Ps c- on the satirical, very long, not really funny, more awkward. Maybe next time.

Also…lol that you think dude’s using ai. His prose has been like that since long before you guys got your chat subs
 
Batschisane52
I don't think that this can ever be possible as long there are different manufacturers of steering wheels
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They could all present different wheels, materials, complete rigs with seats or whatever they could think of, but the FFB itself as a function of the hardware and software would have to be standartized among all competitors (and then it would also be the same for all games).
That is quite possible, but I guess just not welcome for some reason or the other.
 
Meythia
They could all present different wheels, materials, complete rigs with seats or whatever they could think of, but the FFB itself as a function of the hardware and software would have to be standartized among all competitors (and then it would also be the same for all games).
That is quite possible, but I guess just not welcome for some reason or the other.
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there's several reasons probably. I mean as good as Iracing and ACC (and even GT7) are, they aren't perfect. They still all take liberties with physical reality, and they each do things in slightly different ways. But even if a sim was theoretically "perfect," it would likely still be problematic to just lock in a given wheel configuration with no ability to adjust it. As a dev, you want to try and make the product as accessible as possible (assuming we're talking about any sort of mass market endeavor that is) and if you don't allow any customizability you're invariably going to end up with a bunch of people who say your sim 's FF "sucks! Feels like crap! Is totally wrong! Completely un-useable!" etc etc, and the fear would be that that would get to be the accepted view of your product. Otoh, as soon as you do allow some customizability - even if as the dev you state outright that certain settings are the "correct" ones - you're invariably going to end up with you-tubers and so forth who land on other settings that they say are "more realistic." It's sort of a no-win situation. But at least with options available individuals can try and arrive at their own happy place lol...

But also, it's important to remember that these are still products meant to appeal to a wide audience. I like realism and I want a good amount of it in my sim, but at the end of the day I'm still just a 58 year old guy sitting in a beach chair in my living room. I maybe don't necessarily want to feel all the actual FF that a real driver of say a Group C car feels. Maybe I only want 60% of that workload. So there needs to be some way to adjust for that.

I'd be happy if devs would just put together more detailed instructions regarding what all the different settings actually do and how they relate to the real forces of a car's steering wheel rather than stuff like "Centering Spring --- Adjusts the centering spring effect"
 
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Man, the last few pages have been... interesting. @Scaff , you're giving waaay too much time and credit to irrational rambling. I can't bear to read those posts, much less dissect them.

I'll speak to my own experience with my T300rs 599.

I forget off the top of my head, but I typically keep FFB at 4, and bump it up to 5 or 6 for the open wheeled cars that have had their steering weight neutered post 1.49. I don't honestly remember where my sensitivity has been set, but it's been where it's at for a long time now.

Through my wheel there is a progressive increase in weight as the tire reaches it's grip limit, then when traction is exceeded the wheel begins to go light. Weight will return if I get back into traction, but will lighten further if turned more into understeer.

If I continue to push there will be vibrations, which to me feels like a representation of tire chatter as the carcass is pushed more and more against its trajectory. Something that happens in reality. It rarely happens to me because pushing into an already understeering tire is right up there with nails on a chalkboard on the scale of uncomfortable things, but it can happen!

GT7 does not perfectly emulate steering behavior, but no sim I've ever played does. ACC and iRacing are both definitely more communicative experiences, but all of them have shortcomings when compared to reality, especially when it comes to the level of torque most people think is "realistic".

That said, GT7 steering feel is not just "noise". The feedback and cues I receive is close enough to the behavior I would experience in a real car that my ability to feel, learn, adjust, and improve is fine. Grip levels, understeer, weight transfer, reduced traction from elevation drops, increased grip during compression, and many other nuances are relayed well enough to be usable, rewarding, and fun.

That's how it goes for me. Of course I can't speak for anyone else. Finding agreement can be difficult in here at times. Every wheel is different, peoples settings are different. Some here are informed by real world experience, some don't know what it feels like to aggressively drive a car, some have never driven a car at all.

Hope this adds something constructive to the discussion.
 
LSFDRX
ACC and iRacing are both definitely more communicative experiences, but all of them have shortcomings when compared to reality, especially when it comes to the level of torque most people think is "realistic".
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Both (and others) are capable of outputting realistic levels of torque; however, you also require a wheelbase that can reach those levels.

Very roughly a few real-world numbers are:

Road Car (power-steering): 2-4Nm
Road Car (no power-steering): 6-10Nm
GT4 Car (power-steering): 4-8Nm
GT3 Car (power-steering): 5-10Nm
Prototypes (power-steering): 10-15Nm
Open-Wheel (no power-steering): 12-20Nm
Open Wheel (power-steering): 10-15Nm
Indy Car (no power-steering): 25Nm

Keep in mind these would be peak figures, and theoretically any car with power-assisted steering could be dialled in to lower levels if a driver was willing to accept a loss of feel.

I've driven non power-steering open-wheel race cars (Formula Ford, Formula Renault, and Formula 4) and can confirm that my 9Nm Moza R9 can reach realistic levels in RaceRoom, PC2, AMS2, AC, etc.

Source:
 
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PirovacBoy
Especially the highly praised ACC.
Absolutely don't get the fuzz about that game.
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Just to be clear I'm not one of these folks who will say GT7 has the worst FFB on the planet lol. When I praise ACC, I'm only referring to its expression of tire adhesion... The game does a good job expressing what I perceive to be adhesion and elasticity of the tire. I'm able to more easily feel where the limit of grip is in contrast to GT7.

Also, I feel like the road surface is better expressed via FFB, another critical element that's a bit more numb in GT7 comparatively so. Or maybe I'm misremembering and need to play it again.

I agree that in totality (as a game) ACC doesn't hold a candle to GT7. I also give PD credit for creating a FFB system that works across a variety of classes.

Lastly. I appreciate your posts, insight and your willingness to share settings and assist others in enjoying this game.
 
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sonnyboychris
Just to be clear I'm not one of these folks who will say GT7 has the worst FFB on the planet lol. When I praise ACC, I'm only referring to its expression of tire adhesion... The game does a good job expressing what I perceive to be adhesion and elasticity of the tire. I'm able to more easily feel where the limit of grip is in contrast to GT7.
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I don’t play ACC anymore, but that’s the one thing I miss from my short stint with the game. It just feels absolutely glorious once the tyres are up to temperature, with a wheel at least (can’t speak for controller).
 
Cap'n Jack
I don’t play ACC anymore, but that’s the one thing I miss from my short stint with the game. It just feels absolutely glorious once the tyres are up to temperature, with a wheel at least (can’t speak for controller).
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Absolutely!! That's exactly what I hope PD can implement into GT7 at some point. I just need a little bit more visceral feeling in some areas. I found it really satisfying in ACC to navigate the tire warmup process and seeing it reflected via the UI.
 
Noah Eder, a German sim racer (Team Nitro until about a month ago, now driving for Veloce) , just released a video where he is driving online in GT7 for the first time. He's doing Suzuka and Trial Mountain:





He is talking about how GT7 feels for him compared to what he usually drives, ACC and iRacing.
Unfortunately the video is in German and it looks like there are no English subs available. So here's a short summary of what he says:

  • The cars/FFB feel(s) a bit loose around the center
  • When driving on curbs you can loose the car without really feeling much
  • When going off track and you get on the throttle you can quickly spin without getting much feedback
  • The FFB feels like "nothing". Sometimes you enter a turn, there's no oversteer, no understeer, you're just sliding with all wheels. You don't really feel or understand what the car is doing
  • Sometimes you just don't feel the car enough and the car sometimes does things that would never happen in ACC or iRacing
  • GT7 doesn't aim to be a real simulation. It's a mix of game and sim but the priority is on gaming.
  • It's much more accessible than ACC and iRacing and it's much better optimized for controllers.
  • The target audience for GT7 is completely different from ACC and iRacing.

He says that GT7 is perfect for what it wants to be, but if "physics are important to you and you wanna be as close to the real thing as possible, then GT7 isn't the way to go".

Overall he enjoyed the experience a lot. He praises the graphics, the atmosphere and the huge pool of cars. He had a lot of fun on Race A because events like this aren't available on the more serious sims. He said that he may play GT7 more often in the future.
 
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Sir Crashalot
Noah Eder, a German sim racer (Team Nitro until about a month ago, now driving for Veloce) , just released a video where he is driving online in GT7 for the first time. He's doing Suzuka and Trial Mountain:
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A great write up for English and interesting to read but as soon as I started the video and saw the wheel being used this was my take away from it...

The main thing I took from this was that it seems to be about the new T598 wheel rather than GT7 physics, and although I am looking to get this wheel, we all know that the reviews are mixed with 'poor force feedback and feel' on GT7 as the wheel isn't fully supported on PlayStation yet, but the PC reviews are really good.

So don't really think this is a fair comparison between PC IRacing / ACC vs PlayStation GT7 physics.
 
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P-Courty
A great write up for English and interesting to read but as soon as I started the video and saw the wheel being used this was my take away from it...

The main thing I took from this was that it seems to be about the new T598 wheel rather than GT7 physics, and although I am looking to get this wheel, we all know that the reviews are mixed with 'poor force feedback and feel' on GT7 as the wheel isn't fully supported on PlayStation yet, but the PC reviews are really good.

So don't really think this is a fair comparison between PC IRacing / ACC vs PlayStation GT7 physics.
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He has a rig of course, no idea why he didn't use it. Maybe he didn't want to connect the PS5 to the rig.
And no idea if he's aware of this wheel not beeing fully supported on PS yet, but I rather doubt it. Feel free to drop him a comment on YouTube.
 
Some interesting changes this update. To me some good, some bad.

Suspension is massively improved. The weird stiff rigidity is all but gone and everything behaves over bumps as you would expect it to, rather than as if everything was on an absolutely knackered suspension. Probably the best improvement to physics I could've hoped for.

I do feel like there's a lot more lenience now towards driving in general. Everything feels a bit stickier, and a bit like before 1.49 - braking has become trivial again, I don't feel punished anymore for going in hot with 100% braking at every opportunity, the car just sticks with it now. I'm not a fan of this, but I suppose it is a step towards making a more widely accessible driving model. The changes to wet weather driving seem to follow a similar mantra.


My main complaint now is the FFB; because my god, they somehow made it worse. The thing I hated about it before was all the unnecessary noise they had added to it to give an artificial impression of what was going on.
I feel like all they've done is add more of that? The thing is rumbling and vibrating like I'm running over kerbing just by turning a corner. I have absolutely no idea what that is meant to be telling me? I'm turning? Yeah I can tell by the fact my wheel is turned, cheers.
The artificial noise masked the real feel before but now it feels like there is more artificial noise masking the artificial noise masking any actual car behaviour. I do not like it at all.
 
Nebuc72
Some interesting changes this update. To me some good, some bad.

Suspension is massively improved. The weird stiff rigidity is all but gone and everything behaves over bumps as you would expect it to, rather than as if everything was on an absolutely knackered suspension. Probably the best improvement to physics I could've hoped for.

I do feel like there's a lot more lenience now towards driving in general. Everything feels a bit stickier, and a bit like before 1.49 - braking has become trivial again, I don't feel punished anymore for going in hot with 100% braking at every opportunity, the car just sticks with it now. I'm not a fan of this, but I suppose it is a step towards making a more widely accessible driving model. The changes to wet weather driving seem to follow a similar mantra.


My main complaint now is the FFB; because my god, they somehow made it worse. The thing I hated about it before was all the unnecessary noise they had added to it to give an artificial impression of what was going on.
I feel like all they've done is add more of that? The thing is rumbling and vibrating like I'm running over kerbing just by turning a corner. I have absolutely no idea what that is meant to be telling me? I'm turning? Yeah I can tell by the fact my wheel is turned, cheers.
The artificial noise masked the real feel before but now it feels like there is more artificial noise masking the artificial noise masking any actual car behaviour. I do not like it at all.
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Which Wheelbase /Wheel rim are you using?
And what are your Wheelbase Settings as well as in game settings?
 
Nebuc72
I use the TGT-2, so I have no wheelbase settings to change.

In-game I use 5-2 but it doesn't make a difference as neither are impacted by canned effects.
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I spent a while last night trying to dial in some settings to try and make my wheel feel somewhat decent.
I didn't have much luck tbh. It sounds like from what you've said about the changes that things still aren't great.
 
Nebuc72
I do feel like there's a lot more lenience now towards driving in general. Everything feels a bit stickier, and a bit like before 1.49 - braking has become trivial again, I don't feel punished anymore for going in hot with 100% braking at every opportunity, the car just sticks with it now. I'm not a fan of this, but I suppose it is a step towards making a more widely accessible driving model. The changes to wet weather driving seem to follow a similar mantra.
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Exactly what I feel.
 
Nebuc72
Some interesting changes this update. To me some good, some bad.

Suspension is massively improved. The weird stiff rigidity is all but gone and everything behaves over bumps as you would expect it to, rather than as if everything was on an absolutely knackered suspension. Probably the best improvement to physics I could've hoped for.

I do feel like there's a lot more lenience now towards driving in general. Everything feels a bit stickier, and a bit like before 1.49 - braking has become trivial again, I don't feel punished anymore for going in hot with 100% braking at every opportunity, the car just sticks with it now. I'm not a fan of this, but I suppose it is a step towards making a more widely accessible driving model. The changes to wet weather driving seem to follow a similar mantra.


My main complaint now is the FFB; because my god, they somehow made it worse. The thing I hated about it before was all the unnecessary noise they had added to it to give an artificial impression of what was going on.
I feel like all they've done is add more of that? The thing is rumbling and vibrating like I'm running over kerbing just by turning a corner. I have absolutely no idea what that is meant to be telling me? I'm turning? Yeah I can tell by the fact my wheel is turned, cheers.
The artificial noise masked the real feel before but now it feels like there is more artificial noise masking the artificial noise masking any actual car behaviour. I do not like it at all.
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I think this is fairly proven out as the gold times for licences have been dropped and in some case by a few seconds which supports the cars are faster/more compliant.

The FFB on the DD Pro is a bit better but that might be some of the noise reduction in bumps and my own settings. I haven't tried the wet yet but I tend to avoid it anyway.

I need way more miles to really get a sense of the FFB changes to be more concise and objective to the changes.
 
Have the stupid oscillations on race cars been cured on the DD Pro? It's absolutely insane how distracting it is. Glad to hear there's a bit more compliance and the cars may be a bit easier to drive. GT is meant to be accessible, the fast guys will still be fast, if you want to kick it up a notch there's Asseto Corsa on console.
 
I did a little test on the Eiger Nordwand. I expected the car to be significantly faster, because the pp went up a couple of points, but the lap time is practically the same. Braking through the last corner bump was significantly smoother. In general, the brakes felt maybe a little too soft. The car perhaps understeered a tiny bit more on the fast right hander after the "tunnel". Patch 1.54 time was driven yesterday. Setup was same, stock car with SH tires.

PatchCarPPTimeTime optimal
1.54Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97452,9801:17.03901:16.950
1.55Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97455,3101:17.09601:16.909
 
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GTboyz
Yeah after spending more time, I decided I like the changes overall but I still feel the braking is a bit off?
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I dunno I kinda like the braking now especially for non abs cars.. I took my 930 out.. I drive it with ABS off as it didn’t have ABS and it felt way better than before. Granted you still have to be careful but it much harder to lock up the brakes vs before! I love the 930… I know that’s a lil off topic but I love that car!
 
So far, I am having a lot of fun with the update. I'm in VR, and everything feels much more natural for judging the brakes. Feedback/geometry changes are definitely an improvement, though it's difficult to describe why.

Had a blast in the Cobra at Watkins Glen (did not spin it). FF cars feel really good, and I need to play around with FR a bit more but that feel better so far.

I will say I was surprised by the amount of understeer on the Renault R5 Turbo. I was on the edge with comfort tires at Brands Hatch, and didn't seem to have to worry about snap oversteer...

I wish I could switch between new vs old physics to get a better feel for what changed.
 
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