08 WRX came in today
- Thread starter subyluvr2212
- 156 comments
- 8,358 views
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?
It's more like dropping your favorite sports team because they started wearing different colored jerseys. Or not listening to your favorite band anymore because they started using recording with Fender amps instead of Marshalls.
M
- 3,987
- Gaithersburg/MD
- landseaair
well I didn't want to make it seem so bad but...
@ Toronado; it seems to me that people can get just as upset when exotic makers change their ways. Porsche going water cooled, Ferrari Building 8 cylinders, and Lamborghini building Audis (or is that the other way around ::snicker:
come to mind...
- 40,886
Some more examples:
Porsches with liquid cooled engines.
Jeeps with independent front suspension.
BMW 3-ers with turbochargers and V8 engines.
All things that arguably made the cars better, yet all were complained about. I'm not saying that the complaining didn't happen. But my point is, there was little backlash against this complaining when it happened. No one sat down and said "shut up, the car is better now" to the people complaining when Jeep put IFS (I just made that up!) in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, or when Porsche dumped air-cooled engines. But that very thing is being done right now to people who hate the new Rex for similar seemingly unimportant reasons.
If they don't think the car is worth its weight in salt because of seemingly pointless reasons let them think that. They will just shut up by themselves and end their self-imposed sanction against the company just like Porsche, BMW and Jeep lovers have.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Its hard to say for certain there. I think with the Jeeps, BMWs, etc it was just such a radical change by comparison to the tradition that had been such for so long. That isn't to say that change isn't good, particularly when it improves performance, but much like the argument in the Corvette thread, it largely comes down to why you would need to change something when it works so well already...
I think with the Scooby we were predicting it to remain the same spunky little car that it was before, but Subaru tinkered around with the formula so much that we just don't recognize it as the same car from before.
I think with the Scooby we were predicting it to remain the same spunky little car that it was before, but Subaru tinkered around with the formula so much that we just don't recognize it as the same car from before.
- 3,987
- Gaithersburg/MD
- landseaair
I certainly understand where subyluvr is coming from on this, I mean, these days once you loose enough of those small details you end up basically with NASCAR (no offense) where the cars all perform great but they also all look the same inside and out, unfortunately in a market where everyone is always improving their cars in every way possible, most automakers can't afford to go out of their way to keep small details, no matter how endearing.
that being said, I still think this wrx has a rough road ahead at least with people who liked the old cars
that being said, I still think this wrx has a rough road ahead at least with people who liked the old cars
- 33
Alright. I can understand being annoyed with a car company for forgetting traditional details, and I can understand not being able to comprehend how someone could be annoyed for such a reason, but we need to find some middle ground, here, before this friction turns into flaming.
As others have said, silly little details are a big part of what makes different manufacturers unique. They establish an identity for the company, and the continued observance of these details shows that the manufacturer cares about its die-hard fans. When these traditions are ignored or changed for a new model, it's like coming home to find out that your loved one has pierced their nose. Sure, it's a little thing, and sure, you can live with it, but if it's something you didn't want then there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to speak against it.
On the other hand, these little details don't define a manufacturer or car in its entirety. A Porsche 911 with a water-cooled engine is still rear-engined and rear-wheel-drive, and a Corvette with a DOHC engine could still be a V8-powered performance bargain. Hell, BMW could come out with a FWD, hybrid-V6-powered 5-series that didn't have a hofmeister kink, had gauges that lit up green when you turned the headlights on, had headlights with three bulbs apiece, had a single-piece rectangular grille, and didn't have a toolbox in the trunk, and I'd still be a fan. Not of that 5-series (make it a straight-6 RWD and I might be interested), but of BMW's other cars, and the cars they made in the past.
Details are indeed important. But so is the big picture.
As others have said, silly little details are a big part of what makes different manufacturers unique. They establish an identity for the company, and the continued observance of these details shows that the manufacturer cares about its die-hard fans. When these traditions are ignored or changed for a new model, it's like coming home to find out that your loved one has pierced their nose. Sure, it's a little thing, and sure, you can live with it, but if it's something you didn't want then there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to speak against it.
On the other hand, these little details don't define a manufacturer or car in its entirety. A Porsche 911 with a water-cooled engine is still rear-engined and rear-wheel-drive, and a Corvette with a DOHC engine could still be a V8-powered performance bargain. Hell, BMW could come out with a FWD, hybrid-V6-powered 5-series that didn't have a hofmeister kink, had gauges that lit up green when you turned the headlights on, had headlights with three bulbs apiece, had a single-piece rectangular grille, and didn't have a toolbox in the trunk, and I'd still be a fan. Not of that 5-series (make it a straight-6 RWD and I might be interested), but of BMW's other cars, and the cars they made in the past.
Details are indeed important. But so is the big picture.
As Tophaticent said, Jordan is the site owner.
There's no mandate saying that. In my father's run-of-the-mill 1998 Toyota Camry the ignition isn't on the column but rather just below the gauges as I suspect it was on millions of Camrys like it. THAT is fuzzy maths!
- 1,795
- 23,800
- Philippines
I somehow skipped this post... but there's something here.
As much of a Protege fanatic that I am, and the fact that I believe the 6th generation Civic was probably the last Civic I will respect (the new one gets no love from me, in terms of suspension ability and driving, at all.), there is something in this formula change...
By moving their cars towards the mainstream median, Honda and Mazda... or, more specifically, Mazda, have eked out a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.
Sure, Mazda went from being the quirky, underdressed outsider that just happened to build fun-to-drive cars that no one noticed to being the extroverted fashion-victim with cars that were still somewhat fun-to-drive (but admittedly much better than their predecessors in many other ways)... a lot of Protege fanatics were underawed by the new Mazda3, but now that they're used to it, they're accepting it as a true Mazda.
The Civic is on its way to becoming the next Corolla... ubiquitous, world-beating economy, great space... but kinda boring.
Subaru? They're going somewhere with this... but... ??? Granted, initial road-test evaluations have been really good, but Subaru is shooting itself in the foot with the styling. Honda's new take is weird, but edgy... Subie's is weird, but safe... guess which one is easier to swallow? What market segment are they targetting? The rather boring moms and pops who want a dull looking rally car? It seems, in the quest to grow, the company is running into many paradoxes (or creating them for itself) that it's going to have to solve, eventually, before it becomes a morass of Tribeca-scale disasters, and Saabs itself to death.
Ah... but BMW did go the blasphemous FWD route with the Mini... and the enthusiast scene is much much richer for it. Too bad they couldn't find any other nameplate to buy to bolster it... I could imagine that a V6-powered FWD sedan engineered by BMW would be pretty nice.
- 1,128
According to the origional poster THAT is the WRX. Thats what we're all cringing about. if that was just the 2.5 RS it would be ok. BUT THATS A WRX
[EDIT]
THAT replaces THIS..
http://galeria.forocoches.com/data/3439/Subaru_Impreza_WRX_01.jpg
[EDIT]
THAT replaces THIS..
http://galeria.forocoches.com/data/3439/Subaru_Impreza_WRX_01.jpg
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
All of the reviews I've read here in the US are mostly positive in the sense that its a good car, but the problem is, the "good" nature of it isn't in the same vein as the WRX that was before it. The reviews keep saying "wait for the STI!!!" but personally speaking, I'm uncertain of how much better its going to be. I think Car and Driver called the WRX the "Impreza GT" kinda as a joke, waiting for a true performance model to come along.
...Oh well...
...Oh well...
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Has the WRX ever been Subaru's "true performance model"?
I was under the impression the Sti was Subaru's "true performance model."
In any case, I'm sure this WRX (as lame as it looks to many of you), will still be fast and handle well.
On the note of the appearance... It looks like this WRX from the pictures on the first page does not have the optional premium package that adds several little goodies in the body kit department (not sure exactly what comes with it but I believe side skirts are among the packages upgrades).
Go check out the Subaru site for yourselves if you are interested. 👍
I was under the impression the Sti was Subaru's "true performance model."
In any case, I'm sure this WRX (as lame as it looks to many of you), will still be fast and handle well.
On the note of the appearance... It looks like this WRX from the pictures on the first page does not have the optional premium package that adds several little goodies in the body kit department (not sure exactly what comes with it but I believe side skirts are among the packages upgrades).
Go check out the Subaru site for yourselves if you are interested. 👍
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
But the original Mini was front wheel driven(I do realize that you guys already know this). I did get upset about the Golf... I mean the Beetle remake with the FF. Now, that was ridiculous to me. 👎
Like Inferno said. I'm going by the original post. On the rally car, it's just so much more aggressive than the stock model, I don't know how close the STi model can actually get to that.
God. For that WRX, I'd want the complete body kit, and I'd take the biggest wing they got.
What niky is saying is that the new Mini is essentially a FWD BMW, something that would be considered blasphemy by many. I was making the distinction that the Mini is still a Mini, even if it's designed and built by the Bavarians.
I agree with you, though -- The New Beetle (and now the new Fiat 500) should have been RR.
Given the backlash against the styling if you wait a year you might be able to get one at such a sizeable discount, the insurance premiums will balance it out with the MSRP. I don't hate the styling for the record, and I know I'll grow to like it, I just don't love it. I love the Lancer. I wish Subaru could do something right.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Subby seems to get plenty right in my eyes but then agian, I drive a Toyota so what do I know?
None the less, I doubt what you say is true about a backlash to the style... I mean, it could be true but after years of the GTP I've learned that the opinions of some here on the GTP have no actual consequence in the real world. In my opinion, there will be little to no backlash (besides here on the GTP) and sales may actually go up. 👍
Like Joey D said, this is a more grown up, not so boy-racer-ish car.
I like going grown up instead of boy racer.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
I definitely see what you are saying Kent, but in my view, it has nothing to do with the matureness of the design. To me, it just look like horribly outdated Korean car. To me.
I've been wrong before(understatement), I haven't seen the actual car yet, and Subaru buyers have shown support for some odd looking cars in the past. It should be interesting to see how it sells, and I'm very looking forward to my first sighting of this car.
I've been wrong before(understatement
), I haven't seen the actual car yet, and Subaru buyers have shown support for some odd looking cars in the past. It should be interesting to see how it sells, and I'm very looking forward to my first sighting of this car.
Subby seems to get plenty right in my eyes but then agian,
Yes. All is done right.
Come on - the last car Subaru styled well was the 2005 Legacy and they even managed to make that look weird by throwing weird lights into the rear bumpers...
...and on the Outback, changing the grille from 'normal' to 'odd':
Subaru has had poor automotive designs of late with the B9 Tribeca, the new Tribeca, the restyled Outback, and most importantly, the 2002, 2004, and 2006 Impreza. Not to mention this thing. And don't even start me on the Baja which was a joke and an absolute flop. Subaru was gifted with incredible cashflow after the brilliant Outback's success. They did this with it. Poor.
I drive a Toyota so what do I know?
Too easy.
None the less, I doubt what you say is true about a backlash to the style... I mean, it could be true but after years of the GTP I've learned that the opinions of some here on the GTP have no actual consequence in the real world. In my opinion, there will be little to no backlash (besides here on the GTP) and sales may actually go up. 👍
Like Joey D said, this is a more grown up, not so boy-racer-ish car.
I like going grown up instead of boy racer.
Two things.
1.
Do you honestly think GTP is the only place where the styling is being mocked?
From Autoblog:
The amount of time that's passed since we first laid eyes on the 2008 Subaru Impreza has not served to sooth our gag reflex upon seeing it again.
...unfortunately there's no silver lining to report on this storm cloud.
From Motor Trend, regarding reader response to their world premiere of the photos:
Responses ranged from disbelief ("I really hope this is an April Fool's joke") to outrage ("Somebody find the Subaru designer and shoot him"). On Subaru fan sites, criticisms were particularly harsh and included a fair amount of mean-spirited ("Did they hire the design team from Chrysler?"), melodramatic ("Seriously, I want to throw up"), and sarcastic ("I see the Camry, where's the Impreza?") commentary. The faithful were not happy with what Fuji Heavy had wrought.
From Automobile:
On the whole, though, we're not convinced: Since when should a Subaru look and drive like a Toyota - and an ugly one at that?
From Car & Driver:
Unfortunately, something went awry with the exterior styling. Although the original car was hardly the Halle Berry of automotive beauty, the 2008 Impreza is from the Hieronymus Bosch School. The Premium package includes an aero styling kit—front-lip and trunklid tail spoilers and side skirts—that’s akin to adding makeup to a toad.
I need not go on. A direct quote from you - 'the opinions of some here on the GTP have no actual consequence.' Fine. Just pick up ANY review from ANYONE who's reviewed it. They all say the same thing: this car is ugly. I don't need people on GTP to tell me that. Our opinions may not have consequence, but this thing is being universally derided by people who, to you, matter more than the people at GTP evidently do. Thus I have to say: the people who are saying they don't mind it are the ones whose opinion has no consequence. Because while taste is subjective, the world has spoken. It's a joke.
2.
You say you prefer it because it's less 'boy-racer' further stating, I like going grown up instead of boy racer. Congratulations - you're growing up. But while you may be growing up, please take a look at exactly who the Impreza is trying to appeal to. Think about it hard, Kent. Who is it? That's exactly right - BOY RACERS. So if you prefer more grown-up styling, have a look at the Legacy. This thing is aimed at boy racers and appealing to them is its sole purpose. Unsurprisingly, Subaru has failed at recognizing or achieving this purpose.
As I've said we'll get used to it. But it shouldn't take getting used to. Cars like this can be done right and Mitsubishi is proof of that. Subaru just doesn't seem to want to listen.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Boy racers may be the target but I've always felt like anything based on a station wagon design was nothing short of bland and adult. 
Again though, Toyota driver here so what do I know?
And M5, please don't say things like this to me...
What you said though, was rude and flat-out wrong.
Not only did I reffer to "some" but I said nothing about how much the opinions of GTP members mattered (nor the respect I have for the people of the GTP).
I don't want this to continue for a multitude of reasons but I'll leave it at this... I find what you have said to be rather presumptuous, insensitive, and rude. You've falsely inferred only negativity and insult from my comments that were in no way intended to insult our members or minimize their value.
Again though, Toyota driver here so what do I know?
And M5, please don't say things like this to me...
When I say opinions have no consequence it is because I believe the members of the GTP represent only a small portion of prospective Impreza Wagon buyers. Nothing more, nothing less...
What you said though, was rude and flat-out wrong.
Not only did I reffer to "some" but I said nothing about how much the opinions of GTP members mattered (nor the respect I have for the people of the GTP).
I don't want this to continue for a multitude of reasons but I'll leave it at this... I find what you have said to be rather presumptuous, insensitive, and rude. You've falsely inferred only negativity and insult from my comments that were in no way intended to insult our members or minimize their value.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Well, it was nice knowing you, Doug. j/k
Seriously though, Kent, I wouldn't worry about that post. I didn't think it was his intention to attack you, or anything like that. He is just so damned passionate about his opinions on cars(sorry Doug, Taurus still sux).
Seriously though, Kent, I wouldn't worry about that post. I didn't think it was his intention to attack you, or anything like that. He is just so damned passionate about his opinions on cars(sorry Doug, Taurus still sux
).Kent
Your exact statement was as follows:
after years of the GTP I've learned that the opinions of some here on the GTP have no actual consequence in the real world. In my opinion, there will be little to no backlash (besides here on the GTP) and sales may actually go up. (emphasis added)
Now how would you take the portion in red? Re-read it again if you need to.
I provided a researched, well-thought-out argument against that contention - which literally states that our opinions have 'no actual consequence.' I'm sorry if my argument upset you, but I've put research into showing that our opinions on the vehicle are not alone. Before making your post, you clearly did not.
Also, in the future, if you mean to say that our views are of no consequence because we are not potential owners, say it - I am not a mind-reader and neither is anyone else on here. If you don't say it, don't be surprised when people get upset if they believe you have minimized their views.
I'm not angry or upset nor do I wish this to escalate more - I think we just had a misunderstanding, Kent. One of the reasons I didn't presume you were saying our opinions don't matter because we aren't potential owners is that I was speaking as a potential owner - I'm a driving enthusiast, in Subaru's target age group, with the means to purchase this vehicle - and I wouldn't touch it. So take that for what it's worth. 👍
a6m5
It's not that. I couldn't care less about the Impreza. However the entire purpose of this forum seems to be to give opinions on cars, and minimizing those opinions isn't fun. Maybe some of the people on here aren't potential buyers but that doesn't mean their opinions aren't any less valuable.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
So basically, you're not a mind reader.
You don't want to escalate an argument.
You don't like the Impreza.
You mistakenly assumed my words had a meaning that was never present.
I never said the people of the GTP didn't matter nor that their opinions didn't matter yet you have constantly made the ignorant assumption that I did.
If you're not a mind reader then take words for their literal meanings.
"Opinions of no actual consequence in the real world" simply means there is no action following the presentation of said opinion.
When you read that and assume it means the people of the GTP are not important or that their opinions are not important it is you who creates that opinion- not me.
Similar threads
